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Hardest on-piste trail in the West? - Page 4

post #91 of 141
10/17/05 at 1:22pm
I know you guys are probably sick of this pic, and this is nowhere near on-piste, but if pipeline qualifies, then so should these:

http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic20191.jpg

Mandatory 15 to 50 foot airs with no option of not sticking the landing. Any fall on top means at least a long hospital stay.
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post #92 of 141
10/17/05 at 2:08pm
Powdr, Have you done the research for the Daly chutes at Deer Valley? If I recall right Deer Valley said they were the steepest in bounds Chutes in Utah? ( i didn't say it DV did )Then again DV Marketing dept is attempting to give DV a slightly different image other then groomed and posh.
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post #93 of 141
10/17/05 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
I know you guys are probably sick of this pic, and this is nowhere near on-piste, but if pipeline qualifies, then so should these:

http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic20191.jpg

Mandatory 15 to 50 foot airs with no option of not sticking the landing. Any fall on top means at least a long hospital stay.
Snowbasin??!?!??!!!
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post #94 of 141
10/17/05 at 3:46pm
Daly Chutes @ Deer Valley = 49.0 degrees (52 degrees for a shorter 500' length)

Powdr
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post #95 of 141
10/17/05 at 3:55pm
Just checked 51-50 @ PCMR with a 700' section:

51-50 @ PCMR (Inbounds) - 51.3 degrees

Powdr
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post #96 of 141
10/17/05 at 4:00pm
Yeah, that pic is from snowbasin.

Powdr, i followed your instructions for google earth and got the number .9115549 for vertical drop divided by distance, but i don't know how to get the final angle (no scientific calc. in the house).
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post #97 of 141
10/17/05 at 4:05pm
I think I figured it out, 65.72 degrees. I guess you have to attribute that to all the cliffs, cause as far as i'm concerned 60+ degrees is almost unskiable.
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post #98 of 141
10/17/05 at 4:11pm
If the rise is less than the run, the angle cannot exceed 45 degrees. Based on the ratio of rise to run you provided, the angle would be 42.4 degrees.


Mike
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post #99 of 141
10/17/05 at 4:24pm
Zion:

Your 65.7 is correct. It's the sin inverse of that number.
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post #100 of 141
10/17/05 at 4:35pm
Run is not the same as slope length. If you are using Powdr's method, you are measuring slope length. If you use a topo map, you will be using "run". Hard to explain, it's the distance as measured on a 2 dimensional map, the flat distance, ignoring elevation change. The slope length is the long side of a right triangle. Rise and run are the other two sides.
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post #101 of 141
10/17/05 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Run is not the same as slope length. If you are using Powdr's method, you are measuring slope length. If you use a topo map, you will be using "run". Hard to explain, it's the distance as measured on a 2 dimensional map, the flat distance, ignoring elevation change. The slope length is the long side of a right triangle. Rise and run are the other two sides.
I don't think so telerod. A topo map is a flat projection (well conical really). You can visualize or quantify the elevation gain/lost by the contours. As you measure from the top of a slope you measure the horizontal distance (run). The vertical drop (rise) is represented by the contours. With the run and rise known, I think if you want to know the distance traveled you want to calculate the hypotenuse of a triangle (sqrt(a^2+b^2)=c.
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post #102 of 141
10/17/05 at 7:20pm
Hey Powdr, ya know what the 50/51 stands for?
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post #103 of 141
10/18/05 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunion
Hey Powdr, ya know what the 50/51 stands for?
The slope angle (51 - 50 degrees)

Powdr
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post #104 of 141
10/18/05 at 10:28am
This is pipeline at the bird from yesterday:
http://www.biglines.com/photos/norma...ines_46504.jpg
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post #105 of 141
10/19/05 at 4:55am
The slope angle (51 - 50 degrees)

Incorrect answer.... 50-51 refers to the number of turns from the top of Scotts Bowl to the flats below. Least that is what a 12 year PC patroller told me in 1984.

How about 50/52????? Top of the Peak, Skiers right entrance to Machetes???





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post #106 of 141
10/19/05 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunion
The slope angle (51 - 50 degrees)

Incorrect answer.... 50-51 refers to the number of turns from the top of Scotts Bowl to the flats below. Least that is what a 12 year PC patroller told me in 1984.

How about 50/52????? Top of the Peak, Skiers right entrance to Machetes???
I guess it all depends on the troller you talk to. My sources say otherwise.
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post #107 of 141
10/19/05 at 10:41am
Hardest on-piste trail in the West?

Did we disconnect from the intent of this tread? I would like to hear about some other runs that people think are the most difficult, and why?
I listed runs that I thought were scary / Real hard to ski. I did not list them because they were nessesarily the stepest
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post #108 of 141
10/19/05 at 12:00pm
Mr. K in Big Sky on one ski and no poles! ;o)

Little Bear
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post #109 of 141
10/19/05 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
Hardest on-piste trail in the West?

Did we disconnect from the intent of this tread? I would like to hear about some other runs that people think are the most difficult, and why?
I listed runs that I thought were scary / Real hard to ski. I did not list them because they were nessesarily the stepest
I agree. Tough does not always = steep as I find many very steep slopes to not be all that difficult. It would mostly depend on snow conditions and if there is fresh powder present, or all the snow has been scraped off.

International at Alpental used to be tough, especially when there had not been new snow in awhile, but Booth kind of ruined that when a few years ago they started building a switch-back entrance so those that couldn't handle the steep entrance could make it down w/o leaving a trail of their gear on the way.

I think the whole purpose of "no easy way down" should not mean that they will try to make it easier for those who can't cut it...... It was fun to watch skiers and boarders flipping down the hill.....
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post #110 of 141
10/19/05 at 1:39pm
I guess it all depends on the troller you talk to. My sources say otherwise.I would take the word of Bill Gray on that one, he was "my source"
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post #111 of 141
10/19/05 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
Hardest on-piste trail in the West?

Did we disconnect from the intent of this tread? I would like to hear about some other runs that people think are the most difficult, and why?
I listed runs that I thought were scary / Real hard to ski. I did not list them because they were nessesarily the stepest
Did anyone ever decide how to define "on-piste"?

I always thought it meant inside the ski area boundaries at the very least.

Beyond that, I thought "piste" was a run that was regularly groomed. If that's the definition, then very little of what's been mentioned in the last couple of pages of this thread would qualify.

So, by that definition, my opinion would be that the hardest on-piste trail I know of in the West would be Grizzly at Snowbasin. That's where they held the men's Downhill at the 2002 Olympics. Parts of that, when it's groomed and slick, qualify as the most difficult groomed skiing I've ever seen.
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post #112 of 141
10/19/05 at 2:07pm

steep and tuff

Eagle Ridge 5,, Lake Louise Canada ,, not open all the time,, but it has been open b4 late in the year,, entrance for the freeskiing comp last year included the short right to left diagonal chute ,, the one on lookers right ,, (there is more terrain to the right of this pic,, i just couldnt find a wider angle pic)

can anyone calculate the angle of this ?? they didnt teach how to do it at my school ,,
this is not really on the map ,, and not usually open,, but it is lift served, no hike required, and it has been opened b4
this and delirium dive at sunshine should be the steepest around here ,, (not me in the pic)
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post #113 of 141
10/19/05 at 4:25pm
When was ER5 open from the top? I've only ever seen the lower half open.
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post #114 of 141
10/19/05 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
So, by that definition, my opinion would be that the hardest on-piste trail I know of in the West would be Grizzly at Snowbasin. That's where they held the men's Downhill at the 2002 Olympics. Parts of that, when it's groomed and slick, qualify as the most difficult groomed skiing I've ever seen.
Ya, its crazy to look at that thing from the top and realize that the DH's *tucked* it. :
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post #115 of 141
10/19/05 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
The slope angle (51 - 50 degrees)

Powdr
Gee, here in California "5150" means/is a shorthand for health & safety code section 5150, which allows for a 3-day involuntary psychiatric commitment of those who are "a danger to self or others." (A not entirely off topic comment on the subject matter of this thread....)

SfDean.
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post #116 of 141
10/19/05 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodro
Ya, its crazy to look at that thing from the top and realize that the DH's *tucked* it. :
One slow weekday last spring all the of the patrollers on the Jp lift had a little contest to see who could get the best time. I had picked up some demo volkl supersports to see what the skinny ski craze was all about and decided to take my stab at it on those things. I never tucked, but I only turned to stay on course. By the time I got to the bottom I could've used a few valium to settle down. Scary.
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post #117 of 141
10/19/05 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodro
Ya, its crazy to look at that thing from the top and realize that the DH's *tucked* it. :
Tucking the top is absolutely nuts, but freeskiing the course from top to bottom was nothing even remotely difficult.

a little steep in places and a couple of side hills but not narrow and no mandatory air!
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post #118 of 141
10/19/05 at 6:39pm

Runs real people can access?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
Did anyone ever decide how to define "on-piste"?

I always thought it meant inside the ski area boundaries at the very least.

Beyond that, I thought "piste" was a run that was regularly groomed. If that's the definition, then very little of what's been mentioned in the last couple of pages of this thread would qualify.

So, by that definition, my opinion would be that the hardest on-piste trail I know of in the West would be Grizzly at Snowbasin. That's where they held the men's Downhill at the 2002 Olympics. Parts of that, when it's groomed and slick, qualify as the most difficult groomed skiing I've ever seen.
Good point: I consider On-Piste to mean Lift-Serviced, Some could argue that anything within Ski-Area boundaries would be appropriate for this thread. (In-Bounds)



I never considered On-Piste to necessarily mean groomed, A bump run is On-Piste. I do not consider trees or glades to be On-Piste, but they are still lift serviced and inbounds? Kind of confusing?
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post #119 of 141
10/19/05 at 6:54pm
The term piste comes from the italian pistar: to trample down. It can be defined as a densely packed ski trail. So, runs like Snowbird's pipeline are not pistes, whereas runs, like Grizzly Chute that I submitted to Powdr for pitch degree calculation, are (just an example of a piste, not suggesting that it's the hardest in the west). On-piste would be on a trail where the snow gets trampled down by grooming or traffic. My .02.....
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post #120 of 141
10/19/05 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
Tucking the top is absolutely nuts, but freeskiing the course from top to bottom was nothing even remotely difficult.

a little steep in places and a couple of side hills but not narrow and no mandatory air!
So, could you name a *more* difficult regularly-groomed run?

I'm seriously interested because I can't think of one. There are about five spots on Grizzly (help me out here, Zion Zig Zag) that can *only* be groomed with winch cats. I don't know of any other groomed runs in the West where that could be said.
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