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Hardest on-piste trail in the West? - Page 2

post #31 of 141
These come to mind for me
These are runs that I have stood on and skied. They all make me PUCKER

El' Capitain Mt.Rose
East Face KT 22 Squaw valley
Anthing just Skiers Left off the 9990 Chair The Canyons
Jupiter Chair (Right under the Chair) In the trees PCMR
Jimmmy's run Homewood
Upper Cirquue SnowBird
post #32 of 141
This looks like Alaska TGR footage. It'd take stones to drop into that one. I retract my vote for Extreme Couloir at Whistler/Blackcomb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boarderline
I'd like to submit Pipeline at Snowbird. This couloir is really long, really steep, and has a ton of exposure. You wouldn't want to fall above the dogleg toward the bottom.

For a sense of scale, those are skiers in the apron of the couloir near the bottom of the picture.

post #33 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Strato
This looks like Alaska TGR footage. It'd take stones to drop into that one. I retract my vote for Extreme Couloir at Whistler/Blackcomb.
That is not "ON-PISTE"!
post #34 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
That is not "ON-PISTE"!
No it's not, but it is a badass pic, no?
post #35 of 141
The list refering to slopes being over 4000 feet long is not referig to sheer vert, but the actualy length of the run.

Heavenly has some runs that are over 5 miles long (31,000 feet), as are a few of the meadering runs at Killington.
post #36 of 141
On Piste is a European term for a marked run that is maintained and patrolled by the piste security (Ski Patrol). The run will be marked on both sides by sticks or poles coloured to the grade of the run (Green, Blue, Red & Black). The run may be groomed. Any other area on the mountain is off piste. To put it in US skiing terms I guess it would mean a marked run on the trail map within the boundary.
post #37 of 141
[quote=volantaddict]...Well, I don't know about hardest, but it would be cool if Powdr would weigh in with his degree of pitch calculations...QUOTE]

OK, I'll do some if we can all agree on how to measure them. I see there being at least two ways of doing this:

1) Calculate the steepness from the WHOLE run (entire length/vertical)

2) Calculate the steepness from the steepest section (minimum length, say 700')

Any other suggestions?

Powdr
post #38 of 141
300 yards seems fair
post #39 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloxy
On Piste is a European term for a marked run that is maintained and patrolled by the piste security (Ski Patrol). The run will be marked on both sides by sticks or poles coloured to the grade of the run (Green, Blue, Red & Black). The run may be groomed. Any other area on the mountain is off piste. To put it in US skiing terms I guess it would mean a marked run on the trail map within the boundary.
Because there is little consistency in the US, it is difficult to apply these standards - Christmas Chute at Alyeska is within bounds, and listed on the trail map, but not "marked", and would hardly be considered a piste by European terms. It is a 2300' couloir, 45 degrees.

North Face and Gold Mine at Baker are inbounds, there are rope lines separating them from some of the cliffs, on the trail map and they have a sign on top - however they are not further marked and even locals are hard pressed to say where the boundary between one and the next is, but I would classify both as pistes. Heck, they've even groomed the North Face once.

Gad Chutes are within bounds, on trail maps, marked with a sign - is it a piste?
post #40 of 141
How about dividing into lift-served, lift + hike, and hike only
post #41 of 141
[quote=Powdr]
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
...Well, I don't know about hardest, but it would be cool if Powdr would weigh in with his degree of pitch calculations...QUOTE]

OK, I'll do some if we can all agree on how to measure them. I see there being at least two ways of doing this:

1) Calculate the steepness from the WHOLE run (entire length/vertical)

2) Calculate the steepness from the steepest section (minimum length, say 700')

Any other suggestions?

Powdr
How about both. It's your time and effort Powdr, you be the arbiter of your actions. I'm not too worried about definitions, I think people actually do know what on-piste means, but might be curious about particularly daunting pitches they've encountered. Have at it.
post #42 of 141
OK, here are the results....(drum roll please):

Steeper to less steep (700' section minimum)
Narrow chute left of Big Couloir @ Big Sky - 62.8 degrees
Dutch Draw @ Canyons - 56.9 degrees*
Pipeline @ Snowbird - 54.4 degrees*
El Cap @ Mt. Rose 54.4 degrees
Big Couloir @ Big Sky - 52.9 degrees
Rock Creek @ Big Sky - 51.9 degrees
East Face @ Squaw - 49.5 degrees
Corbetts @ JHMR - 48.1 degrees
Trees off of 9990 @ Canyons - 45.6 degrees
S1 @ Aspen - 41.8 degrees
Six Bells (Jupiter Trees) @ PCMR - 41.3 degrees
Motts Canyon @ Heavenly - 40.6 degrees
Broken Arrow @ Squaw 40.4 degrees
Spellbound Bowl @ Crested Butte - 40.2 degrees
Steeplechase @ Highlands - 38.4 degrees
Gunbarrel @ Heavenly - 35 degrees
Grizzly Chute @ Montana Snowbowl - 34.6 degrees
Extreme Couloir @ Blackcomb - 33.4 degrees
RTS @ Williamette - 34 degrees
Pallavicini @ A Basin - 31.9 degrees
The Couloir @ Blackcomb - 31.8 degrees

* = OB, but lift accessible

Remember, don't shoot the messenger. I'm sure someone here will be offended that their treasured steep run doesn't measure up. I just report 'em.

Powdr
post #43 of 141
Powdr: Thanks for the * on Dutch's. We don't want anyone to ski this know, do we? The Trees off 9990 is something else
post #44 of 141
Ok, what about the #3 Chute at Steamboat? Here's the data from their Master Dev Plan. I know folks don't think of steeps when they think about Steamboat, that these numbers are pretty good.

Name: Chute 3
Top: 10,536
Bottom: 10,048
Vert: 488
Length: 1,067
Length 2 (actual): 1,192
Avg Width: 167
Area (acres): 4.6
Avg Slope: 46%
Max Slope: 89%
Rank: Expert

David
post #45 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyons
Powdr: Thanks for the * on Dutch's. We don't want anyone to ski this know, do we? The Trees off 9990 is something else
I skied Dutch's with some friends in February 04 in deep pow. Never had better turns. That was before I had any awareness of the hazards and consequences there. Just another touron gaper :; and no, what we did wasn't safe. Orange fence? I didn't see no orange fence!
post #46 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuma
Ok, what about the #3 Chute at Steamboat? Here's the data from their Master Dev Plan. I know folks don't think of steeps when they think about Steamboat, that these numbers are pretty good.

Name: Chute 3
Top: 10,536
Bottom: 10,048
Vert: 488
Length: 1,067
Length 2 (actual): 1,192
Avg Width: 167
Area (acres): 4.6
Avg Slope: 46%
Max Slope: 89%
Rank: Expert

David
Uh...you are confusing PERCENT with DEGREES. The steepness in degrees [Sin(inv) of 488/1067] is 27.2 degrees. Alas, nothing more than an average black run.

Powdr
post #47 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
I skied Dutch's with some friends in February 04 in deep pow. Never had better turns. That was before I had any awareness of the hazards and consequences there. Just another touron gaper :; and no, what we did wasn't safe. Orange fence? I didn't see no orange fence!
Dutch Draw and even [shock] Square Top can be skied safely, under the RIGHT circumstances. Although both avalanche annually, they generally only go once per year. After that, they are far safer. Proper route selection and snow study are key. Of course, I haven't been in ether area in the last two years...just too dicey with the faceted snow we've had recently.

Powdr
post #48 of 141
Hey Powdr, could ya would ya please, run Angel Face at MT Snowbowl. It's probably not super steep, I'm just curious. (on the official trail map they spelled it ANGLE Face) Thanks again for your contributions.
post #49 of 141
Yes thanks for putting some numbers to the runs. So I know I did not list the sickest terrain in the west? I just put down lift serviced runs that get my blood pumping.
BTW Trees under 9990 was probably some of the scariest stuff I have done (The first few runs anyway), you cannot see where you are going and as some know there are lots of suprises. Nothing like cruzin pow turns in tress and then skiing of a 10ft cliff into a 55+Deg pitch and then into more trees?
post #50 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Hey Powdr, could ya would ya please, run Angel Face at MT Snowbowl. It's probably not super steep, I'm just curious. (on the official trail map they spelled it ANGLE Face) Thanks again for your contributions.
I coudn't find it on the map I was looking at. Could you please point it out so that I can then locate it on my GIS program?

Powdr
post #51 of 141
While I appreciate your research, the numbers in bold are incorrect...

Your GIS plots are calculating the angle when the area is devoid of snow cover. When these areas fill in with snow, the angles ease up quite a bit.
If we were discussing the terrain for climbing in the summer that is one thing. What we are looking at is how do they ski!


Narrow chute left of Big Couloir @ Big Sky - 62.8 degrees
Dutch Draw @ Canyons - 56.9 degrees*
Pipeline @ Snowbird - 54.4 degrees*
El Cap @ Mt. Rose 54.4 degrees
Big Couloir @ Big Sky - 52.9 degrees

Rock Creek @ Big Sky - 51.9 degrees

If you mean the Narrow Chute to the lookers left, Dobies Exit. It is in the upper 40s, around 49 degrees. If you mean the not as narrow chute to the skiers left, The Little Couloir, it begins in the low 50s (about 51.5).

The Big Couloir is about 47 degrees at the entrance and lets up below the dogleg to the low 40s.

Rock Creek (at Moonlight Basin) has a section that is near 50 degrees.


But thanks anyway.
post #52 of 141
Powdr, what do you get for Kirkwoods Sister's Chute, from the benchmark at 38* 40.097, -121* 4.254 vector 18 degrees true north degrees? (WGS 84 datum)

Thanks
post #53 of 141
Yo Powdr! I'm still looking for Tower 3 Chute at Jackson. Where does that fit in your list?
post #54 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
Uh...you are confusing PERCENT with DEGREES. The steepness in degrees [Sin(inv) of 488/1067] is 27.2 degrees. Alas, nothing more than an average black run.

Powdr
Yep, not paying attention on that. It's funny, cause I looked at the 89 number and thought to myself that there was no way it was that steep. 21.21669 to be exact. thanks for pointing that out gently! seeya.
post #55 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
I coudn't find it on the map I was looking at. Could you please point it out so that I can then locate it on my GIS program?
Powdr
Angel Face is highlighted in red in the upper right, Grizzly Chute is in the lower left.
post #56 of 141
Kiwi Flat/Star Chute at Mammoth used to be on the trail map. Can we count those?
post #57 of 141
A few more:

Huevos Grande @ Mammoth - 52.5 degrees
Kiwi Flats @ Mammoth - 51.9 degrees
Tower Three Chute @ JHMR - 42.2 degrees
Angel Face @ Montana Snow Bowl - 33.4 degrees

Note: Yes, the slope angles are caculated with summer data (no snow). Yes, avalanches, sluffs, snow piles and settling can impact slope angle. But so too can cornices and lee side accumulations. In general, non snow covered calculations treat the run with objectivity.

Powdr
post #58 of 141
A point i wanted to make:
Hardest Trail is not nessesarily the steepest.

There are lots of 50 to 60 Deg shutes all over the place. If there are no surprises, consistent snow cover, no 10' + cornice to jump off, they are not that dangerous or the hardest to ski.
post #59 of 141
Indeed. I can think of one inbounds chute that is only 400' vertical, but it has this nasty near vertical drop-in, with room for 2 to 3 turns before it takes a hard turn to the right. Out of my league - and it's not even the hardest line there.
post #60 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan
Indeed. I can think of one inbounds chute that is only 400' vertical, but it has this nasty near vertical drop-in, with room for 2 to 3 turns before it takes a hard turn to the right. Out of my league - and it's not even the hardest line there.
Im getting a visual.
Thats the kind of stuff that falls into my (I could do that) but choose not too!!
Unless its the only way into a big wide bowl of endless untracked pow.
The I have to Cowboy up and take the plunge
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