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Hardest on-piste trail in the West? - Page 5

post #121 of 141
There's a pretty steep pitch right under the chairs (well there used to be two of them side by side) at White Pass, I believe it's called the Eliminator (it was always fun to watch people fall down it from the lift, they'd keep sliding and rolling and sliding...), it grew some huge moguls at times, but I did see it groomed once. Of course I was just a pup back then, it might not have really been at that tough, though I did try it, and I fell and slid and rolled and......
post #122 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
but freeskiing the course from top to bottom was nothing even remotely difficult.
Well not w/ soft snow and bumps on it..but I don't think that was the scenario Bob presented. Let's face it, anything inbounds is going to be a relativly easy ski on a powder day. Steep and deep is no problem. Steep and icy and exposed is differnt and I think that is probably where the easterners have it up on us.

As Mr. arbitrary, I'd say the criteria should be wether you can get off a lift directly and ski it. It should at least be on a trailmap. A long traverse and a little hike is ok, but it has to be regularly tracked. So no, pipeline doesn't count.
post #123 of 141
btw, anyone have a sense off hand what the pitch is on the first part of fright gully at the Canyons? Short and not -despite the name- a candidate for scariest, but I'm just curious. .
post #124 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodro
Well not w/ soft snow and bumps on it..but I don't think that was the scenario Bob presented. Let's face it, anything inbounds is going to be a relativly easy ski on a powder day. Steep and deep is no problem. Steep and icy and exposed is differnt and I think that is probably where the easterners have it up on us.

As Mr. arbitrary, I'd say the criteria should be wether you can get off a lift directly and ski it. It should at least be on a trailmap. A long traverse and a little hike is ok, but it has to be regularly tracked. So no, pipeline doesn't count.
I wasn't there on a powder day.

Just about anything off the Peak chair at Whistler, like Shale slope, whistler bowl, The Couloir & the Cirque, all chair served and accessed without a hike make the grizzly downhill pale in comparison.

Shale Slope and the left line (skiers right)line coming under the peak chair from the top have both been groomed(winch cat) many times!

cockaloraum and West Cirque are no slouches either!

see Map and scroll to far right

http://media.intrawest.com/whistler/...ailmap0506.jpg
post #125 of 141
It seems to me that the top of the Wildflower Downhill, just after the cat track, is steeper than the Grizzly Downhill, just after the track.
post #126 of 141
I believe The Wall at Kirkwood and Golden Eagle at Beaver Creek may be a little bit steeper than the Top of Grizzly Downhill which I've measured at 37 degrees. Both are groomed with winch cats as well. I've heard or read somewhere that The Wall is 40 degrees at the top though I have not measured it. Last season I measured a section of Golden Eagle at 40 degrees though it was bumped up that day and there was that lovely race course ice in the troughs between the bumps. Are they harder? I guess it depends on the day.
post #127 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWskier
Tetsuma already mentioned Chute 3 at Steamboat. I have not (yet) had the chance to ski many (almost any) of the runs listed above, except the Chutes at Steamboat. How does Steamboat's Chute 3 compare with other lift-served trails listed above? If I can ski Chute 3 could I ski most of the others listed?
The chutes at Steamboat are much shorter and not nearly as steep as most of the runs mentioned.
post #128 of 141
I did a few of these calcs after the other thread on eastern steeps. It works just as Powdr described using the free version of Google Earth. You can even measure dogleg chutes by adding two lines above and below the turn. Then you type the Google Earth data into Excel and use =180/PI()*ASIN(vert/Google distance) to get the angle.

I find the calculations to be very sensitive to distance. I used a minimum of .10 mile (528 feet), but the numbers don't settle down until you get up around .20 mile. Las Lenas has a whole bunch like Christmas Bowl, longer than 4000 feet in distance with average steepness over 30 degrees, and a couple that sustain 40 for over 1000 vertical. I didn't find anything here that was over 40 degrees for as much as 1000 vertical. I have Big Couloir at Big Sky as 44.95 degrees for 746 vertical and Pipeline above Snowbird as 50.15 degrees for 608 vertical.

Big Couloir is the scariest run that I have ever skied personally. Much of that was due to less than ideal snow above the dogleg. The line drawn on Alta's Mt. Baldy is Little Chute. Google Earth has it at the same steepness as Main Chute at 41 degrees for 500-600 vertical. But the narrowness and fall consequences make Little Chute much more intimidating. I would not have considered Little Chute when I skied Main Chute in 1990. Coverage in Little Chute in last year's huge snowpack made it look doable while viewing from Collins, but I never got up there to see from the top.
post #129 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by boarderline
Wowsers, some serious big mountain lines there.

By the same definition, as in semi-lift served, within ski area boundries and usually open, I'd like to submit Pipeline at Snowbird. This couloir is really long, really steep, and has a ton of exposure. You wouldn't want to fall above the dogleg toward the bottom.

For a sense of scale, those are skiers in the apron of the couloir near the bottom of the picture.

Looks great. Where is that at Snowbird? Serious hiking involved? I'll be there is early Dec. and doubt there will be enough coverage.

thanks
post #130 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by smileguy1
Where is that at Snowbird?
Here's another view. The visible trail cut at center left is Road to Provo, which you can find on the trail map for context..
post #131 of 141
http://www.skistreak.com/2005/mar/ has a detailed description with pics of the hike route and skiing Pipeline last March. If you're not a mountain animal that hike is at least an hour IMHO. Lots of exposure on both hike and skiing, and last year is probably the easiest it would ever be.
post #132 of 141

help with using Google Home

can you guys help me with getting the right info from gOOGLE hOME to calulate teh slope? (I fully understand the trigonometry)

For example, let's take Keystone Colorado. I am having trouble figuring out how to get proper resolution.

can you please walk me through getting:
1. proper resolution
2. delta height (rise)
3. delta run (run)
4. or length of slope (hypotenuse)

Thanks,
Guy
post #133 of 141
Some description, URL to download, and examples of Google Earth here: http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boa...pic.php?t=1097 .

It's separate software you need to download, and many older computers can't handle it. Once you have the program, go to Tools, click Measure and you can draw a line on the map and a pop-up box tells you the length of the line. At any time the latitude, longitude and altitude of the point where the cursor is located are shown at the bottom of the map.
post #134 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by gschlact
can you guys help me with getting the right info from gOOGLE hOME to calulate teh slope? (I fully understand the trigonometry)

For example, let's take Keystone Colorado. I am having trouble figuring out how to get proper resolution.

can you please walk me through getting:
1. proper resolution
2. delta height (rise)
3. delta run (run)
4. or length of slope (hypotenuse)

Thanks,
Guy
What Tony said. Regarding visual resolution of the imagery, I'm pretty sure that that's something that we have no control over, at least if you are using the Google Earth free version. I may be wrong here (actually I hope I am, since I haven't found many ski or backcountry areas that have been imaged at the resolution needed to make calculations on individual runs). The Cottonwood Canyon ski areas are an exception since they are so close to Salt Lake that they got imaged at the same high resolution as did the city. I know that I gave up on Taos and Jackson Hole because I couldn't zoom in close enough to do any useful calculations. But maybe there are other techniques you can use or tools that you can integrate with Google Earth to get the type of results that Powdr was publishing.
post #135 of 141

google earth

I guess I was doing it right all along. It appears that there is different quality/resolution depending on the location. Salt Lake area has better detail and resolution than Keystone/Dillon etc in Summit County Colorado. It just makes it a bit more difficult to visually see the steep part of the slopes without the resolution.

Then again, it could be the elevation. I just went to one of the peaks which is about 12,000 and there is no elevation or coordinates registering on Google Home.

-guy
post #136 of 141
Google Earth has high and low resolution, and it's patchwork what they have in high vs. low. For example:
Aspen is high-res, Vail is low
The Grand Canyon is high-res, Mammoth is high-res (except for the Chair 14 area), but Yosemite is low

In either case you zoom in until the image starts to get fuzzy. With high-res you can zoom closer. Las Lenas was obviously low-res in such a remote area, but with the big distances and verticals I was able to do the same calculations. Lots of the places Powdr did calcs for were low resolution.
post #137 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread
I believe The Wall at Kirkwood and Golden Eagle at Beaver Creek may be a little bit steeper than the Top of Grizzly Downhill which I've measured at 37 degrees. Both are groomed with winch cats as well. I've heard or read somewhere that The Wall is 40 degrees at the top though I have not measured it. Last season I measured a section of Golden Eagle at 40 degrees though it was bumped up that day and there was that lovely race course ice in the troughs between the bumps. Are they harder? I guess it depends on the day.
I skied the wall last March in 70+ weather down at the summit. It certainly did not seem that hard nor that steep. I thought some of the Blues at Mt. Rose were more difficult then the Wall at Kirkwood.
post #138 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarlito
....to get the type of results that Powdr was publishing...
I use a GIS program called Global Mapper (not freeware) to get my results. It uses DOQ overlays, which are far more detailed (but B&W). Here is an example of a line @ Copper:



I then calculate the slope the same way as in Google Earth: Vertical/Length and then the inverse sin (in this case it comes out to 22.7 degrees). I also measure the area (acreage) of a ski area by using the Area Tool in this program. The lies that some ski areas tell.....

Powdr
post #139 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker
...Lots of the places Powdr did calcs for were low resolution....
Actually, they are better resolution that what you get in even the best images of Google Earth. See post above.

Powdr
post #140 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
I use a GIS program called Global Mapper (not freeware) to get my results. It uses DOQ overlays, which are far more detailed (but B&W). Here is an example of a line @ Copper:



I then calculate the slope the same way as in Google Earth: Vertical/Length and then the inverse sin (in this case it comes out to 22.7 degrees). I also measure the area (acreage) of a ski area by using the Area Tool in this program. The lies that some ski areas tell.....

Powdr
Nice app. I'm an ERMapper kinda guy myself. There's an amazing amount of free or nearly free data out there on the interweb: DEMs, DOQs, DRGs of 24k topos, and now the output of that shuttle mission that generated a 30-meter elevation model of the world about 5 years ago.

I used to work with a ski area designer in your neck of the woods orthorectifying aerial photos against USGS DRG topos and DEM data (nurse, come quick, I think someone is orthorectifying over here!) for Crystal Mountain, Snowbasin, Snowbird, Alta, Kicking Horse, and a few other places. Most of the work was for new-lift planning purposes (Mineral Basin at Snowbird, for example), and although the mapping was fun, the best part was the "field work" during the winter....
post #141 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarlito
Nice app. I'm an ERMapper kinda guy myself. There's an amazing amount of free or nearly free data out there on the interweb: DEMs, DOQs, DRGs of 24k topos, and now the output of that shuttle mission that generated a 30-meter elevation model of the world about 5 years ago.

I used to work with a ski area designer in your neck of the woods orthorectifying aerial photos against USGS DRG topos and DEM data (nurse, come quick, I think someone is orthorectifying over here!) for Crystal Mountain, Snowbasin, Snowbird, Alta, Kicking Horse, and a few other places. Most of the work was for new-lift planning purposes (Mineral Basin at Snowbird, for example), and although the mapping was fun, the best part was the "field work" during the winter....
Cool. Although I'm not associated w/ the resort planning business, I've got a bunch of pet projects that I'd like to someday (when real work doesn't get in the way: ) complete. I've got all kinds of 3D mapping ideas that go beyond Google Earth or anything else out there, especially for winter mapping.

Powdr
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