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Technica Rival x10 vs Salomon XWave 8

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ok, I'm new to these forums but I was reading through some of them and noticed some helpful information. I'm at a bit of a crossroads right now and not sure which way to go..

I'm a solid advanced skiier, I like to go fast on just about any terrain (Powder, groom.. though me and moguls sometimes have a hard time agreeing ).

I've tried Head, Rosignol and Alpine but they all don't fit.. it's basically come down to Technica Rival x10's (2005 model) and the Salomon XWave 8 (2006 Model)..

Rival x10 I can get for 450.00 (Canadian)
XWave 8 I can get for 500.00 (Canadian)

The Rival chafes a little bit right at the sides of the feet but they are Heatform so I expect that they would fit a bit better once molded to my feet. The Salomon's fit nicely right out of the box.

Anyone have any have any recomendations one or the other?
post #2 of 18
The Techica is a nice boot. The term "chafes" worries me because it implies too much room, allowing movement. Sounds too large. Did you do a shell fit?

Xwave is a stiff, responsive boot. When trying on the Xwave next time, really focus on what is going on in the lower shin area. I had a pair that caused severe inflammation of that tendon on the front of the ankle (Tibialis anterior) caused by compression during dorsiflexion (the test is forward flex while pulling up the foot). If you don't have an issue with it, its a good boot. I used mine for about a week before it finally crippled me and caused me to lose a ski day in Utah.

Boots are important to get a good fit, and I have made my share of mistakes. If you are near a boot fitter, the results can be worthwhile.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Sorry "Chafe" isn't the right word.. it was a little to tight.. kinda squeezed on the side of the foot.. that's what I meant
post #4 of 18
I am going into my 4th season on a pair of X-Wave 8s, which are supposed to be the same boot as the 9s, but without the adjustment bells and whistles on the shell. I am a big guy 215 lbs. and size 12.5 feet, and have found them to be one of the most comfortable boots I have ever skied in. They have a lot of padding and were comfortable right from the start, which made me suspcious, but they have skied very well. I have a friend that just bought his second pair of X-Wave 10s which are a little stiffer, so he obviously likes them.

I have weird feet and was known for always screwing with my boots every run. When I got the 8s I could just about buckle them and leave them alone all day, even if I went in for lunch. They have only packed out a little, which just requires a slightly thicker sock to get the original fit. I have never tried reheating the thermo liner. I had them punched out a spot on each boot for my strange ankle bones and have never had to have it redone. They are a pretty high volume boot and I have a long low volume foot, so I use heel lifts to take up the slack, but I like being forward and do that to all my boots.

Sierra Trading Post has X-Wave 9s for $400 US in all sizes if you go to their web site and search for "ski boots."

If you go with the X-Waves I recommend sliding the spoiler all the way down.
post #5 of 18
While I would usually be recalcitrant to make an offhand statement about something as complex and important as bootfitting and comparisons, I will say that the XWave is a much higher quality boot.

The Tecnica Rival series is among my least favorite boots ever. They aren't nice to work on, don't ski all that well, and honestly don't fit many people well.

The XWave has its share of gotchas, but if it fits you well it will be a better skiing and more durable boot.
post #6 of 18
I've owned higher end Technicas, now ski X-Wave 10's, have used the 8's. My sense is that both are great boots, quick and precise, but very different fits - Technicas are narrower in front, looser in back. Vice versa for Salomons. So I doubt both will fit you equally well. If the Technicas pinch your forefoot, you'll need to grind/blow them or face major pain after a day on the slopes. I'd say if the Salomons fit you out of box, any adjustments will be minor. Just make sure they're not TOO comfy in the store, because that means you have too large a size.
post #7 of 18
Tecnica Rival Series...don't ski that well? I ski Rival X9's and they are the best boots I've ever owned! I'm sure there are "better" boots out there, but, these fit me perfect and fit is what counts for most of us mortals. When I was shopping for boots last year, I think the only boots I didn't at least try on was anything from Dolomite(local shop didn't have any). I couldn't get the Salomons to feel right. Lange just killed me...felt skinny all over. The Tecnicas just plain fit "out of the box," as beyond stated. Not all the Tecnicas fit, but these did. The best thing I ever did was walk into a reputable local ski shop and have a blind eye toward the manufactorers' name. I walked in with only two things on my mind...1. Find the boots that fit me the best, reguardless of who made them...2. Operate with in my budget. By going to a reputable ski shop that I have delt with before, I was already comfortable with the quality of their boot stock. Strangely enough, the boots I bought were not the most expensive nor the top of line, but fit me better for the puposes that I needed them for. They had more features than I thought I was going to get and considered that a bonus. I guess my point is, Tecnica, Salomon, Lange, etc...all make very good boots. When I think about the boots I ski on now and then look at what I started skiing on 20 years ago, I can't help but think that you almost have to make an effort to find a bad boot. As far as Rivals not skiing well, that's strickly a matter of opinion much the same way that one boot may fit you, but, will drop me to my knees in pain after a single run.
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot
I am going into my 4th season on a pair of X-Wave 8s, which are supposed to be the same boot as the 9s, but without the adjustment bells and whistles on the shell. I am a big guy 215 lbs. and size 12.5 feet, and have found them to be one of the most comfortable boots I have ever skied in. They have a lot of padding and were comfortable right from the start, which made me suspcious, but they have skied very well. I have a friend that just bought his second pair of X-Wave 10s which are a little stiffer, so he obviously likes them.

I have weird feet and was known for always screwing with my boots every run. When I got the 8s I could just about buckle them and leave them alone all day, even if I went in for lunch. They have only packed out a little, which just requires a slightly thicker sock to get the original fit. I have never tried reheating the thermo liner. I had them punched out a spot on each boot for my strange ankle bones and have never had to have it redone. They are a pretty high volume boot and I have a long low volume foot, so I use heel lifts to take up the slack, but I like being forward and do that to all my boots.

Sierra Trading Post has X-Wave 9s for $400 US in all sizes if you go to their web site and search for "ski boots."

If you go with the X-Waves I recommend sliding the spoiler all the way down.
Most of us don't view boots with lots of padding as something that skis well. The whole concept of having low volume feet and sticking them in a high volume shell is illogical to me, but I'm glad it works for you. When the time comes to get new ones, I urge you to see a real bootfitter, who will show you how much more powerful you can be in boots that fit you. Boots that are over-padded prevent people from learning to carve, IMO, as they work fine in a rotary motion, but would scare even the best skiers when tipped on edge.

I would venture to guess that you don't do a lot of carving if boots like that appeal to you. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by hercules
Tecnica Rival Series...don't ski that well? I ski Rival X9's and they are the best boots I've ever owned! I'm sure there are "better" boots out there, but, these fit me perfect and fit is what counts for most of us mortals.
This is precisely why I don't make statements like that very often. I thought it was worth noting in this case, because I really don't like the Rival series.

I'm emphatically NOT the only one. The Rival is now gone, replaced by a boot that is better in many ways.

The XWave series is largely the same boot as it was five years ago. It has staying power, in part because its a very good product that customers and dealers are quite happy with.

A lot of my bias against the Rival comes from working on them. A boot at the pricepoint your X9 was at should have been a lot more durable and serviceable, in my opinion.
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I can't help but think that you almost have to make an effort to find a bad boot.
"Bad", yes. There are plenty of products out there that are mediocre.
Quote:
As far as Rivals not skiing well, that's strickly a matter of opinion much the same way that one boot may fit you, but, will drop me to my knees in pain after a single run.
Thats really not a good analogy. "Out of the box" fit is nice, but it carries a set of limitations. The Rival was one of the few boots that really did "fit" me right out of the box.

Does it fit me as well as my Course X2's I've spent about two hours of work on? No. Is it convenient or practical for some people to have a couple hours of bootwork done? No.

However, that doesn't mean its my opinion that they don't ski that well. Its a clear fact. Assuming the couple gotchas of the XWave design (speaking in terms of skiability) aren't an issue for the particular skier, I feel confident making a near absolute statement that they'll ski better than a Rival.

Since I generally go through at least one pair of boots a year, sometimes more, and since I've spent a lot of time trying out different boots and determining what makes them tick, I'm confident making that statement.

It appears you think I have some bias against the brand. I absolutely do not. I strongly avoid getting involved in my girlfriend's gear, but last year I had a coworker set her up with a new set of boots. "New" Icons XRs from a couple years ago. Her skiing instantly got better, and she marvels at how much more in control she feels.

I absolutely agree that brand doesn't matter and that fit is paramount. I just don't write off everything else the way you appear to.

Since you (and the originator of the thread) obviously care enough about performance to buy a fairly high end boot, I would suggest that next time you go shopping you consider that there is more to the equation than fit. Fit is the most important quantity by far, but it isn't all.
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublediamond223
I would venture to guess that you don't do a lot of carving if boots like that appeal to you. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
I think your statement is spot on, but I feel differently than you about where that comes from.

The movements needed for carving work just fine with a shoebox on your foot, so long as the cuff is snug around your lower leg. Don't get me wrong, its not optimal, but it does work.

On the other hand, I want a very snug fit if I'm going to start rotating my foot. Steering movements to point the skis are really hard with sloppy boots. Soft plug boots ski absolutely wonderfully in the bumps for me, too bad the feet feel like dogmeat at the end of a run.

I know what you are saying about edge feel...you really need it no matter what kind of turn you make. I think skidded steered turns require it just as much or more than good carved turns. One of the neat things about modern ski technique is that if you put your body in the right position, your skis automatically end up where they need to be. This is in sharp contrast to intermediate technique which always exhibits trying to put the horse before the cart so to speak.
post #11 of 18
Almost everybody that responded liked the X-Waves, including me. They were described as stiff, responsive and a good fitting and skiing boot, but because mine are comfortable I obviously can't carve? I have over a hundred days on them in the last 3 seasons and, trust me, they carve just fine. After coming off of 10 years skiing on low volume Flexons where I could feel the rivets from the buckles through the liners it was a pleasure to get into a more comfortable boot with a little more padding. How you translate that into me not doing a lot of carving is a mystery to me. Compared to the Flexons the X-Waves appear to have "lots of padding", but obviously they are not sloppy rental boots. These work great in 3 ft. of powder or 5 hours of bumps, and don't beat up my feet. What more can you ask of a boot?

The X-Waves are not a huge volume shell but are on the bigger side, and my feet are not extremely low volume. I had them fitted when I bought them and then tweaked at the Boot Doctors later when I got the shells punched. They fit very well. With my Flexons I used the large forward lean cant in the back of the shells. After experimenting with my X-Waves I found that I liked the way they flexed and skied with the heel lifts. I have always liked boots with a lot of forward lean.

I am old school and grew up skiing 210s when you had to throw yourself on to the front of the ski to turn, and consequently my style has evolved into liking the feel of hanging on the front of the boot when I carve. The heel lifts facilitate this for me in these boots. The X-Waves work just fine but feel much more blocky and have very little feel of the snow compared to the Flexons. I guess every boot is a compromise in some way. I plan on trying the new Kryptons next year.
post #12 of 18
I also have the X-Wave 8.0 and really like it. I tried on a lot of different boots and it was the one that best fit my foot and provided the support I was looking for. The others were way to tight/narrow. At the time I'd never heard of modifiying boots, but I still don't regret the decision. There were one or two others that fit ok, but the Salomon also felt the stiffest of them. When I bought them I felt it was a no-brainer since it fit so well and almost seemed to be designed just for my foot. I've had them several seasons and they still fit very well.

I'm no expert in gear fitting/selection since I usually buy something and keep it awhile, but I'd say find what fits you best while providing the support you're looking for and go with it.
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thanks for everyones help.. I think I've made my decision (Going to try 1 final fitting) but, well I think I'm going to go with the concensus... the X-Wave's
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot
How you translate that into me not doing a lot of carving is a mystery to me. Compared to the Flexons the X-Waves appear to have "lots of padding", but obviously they are not sloppy rental boots. These work great in 3 ft. of powder or 5 hours of bumps, and don't beat up my feet. What more can you ask of a boot?

The X-Waves are not a huge volume shell but are on the bigger side, and my feet are not extremely low volume. I had them fitted when I bought them and then tweaked at the Boot Doctors later when I got the shells punched. They fit very well.
X Waves are great boots. Glad you enjoy them.
post #15 of 18
skiingman, I guess it only shows that each person has opinions, but each person knows whats right for themselves. I have to admit that I was very surprised that you, of all people, would make such an absolute statement the way you did in your first post. I respect your opinions and have noticed in other posts that you offer great advice, which I have used in the past. I did want to point out however a couple things that I think you read into what I was saying, or I didn't word correctly and gave the wrong meaning.

First, I haven't writen off everything else nor intended to give that impression. I stated that when I was shopping for boots, I go into the experience with a blind eye toward the brand. I had no idea that I would be leaving the store with Tecnicas that day, not to mention which specific boot model. I did this on purpose so I would not miss something because of bias. For all I knew, I could have left with a pair of salomons that day. The point is, I did not, nor am I, writing off any boot. What works for you, just plain works for you! I liked the Salomons and think they make a great boot. They are just not the boot for me. I am confident when I say that my X9's are the boot for me. They have allowed me to progress my skiing abilities to new levels that I didn't think possible. Would the X-Waves have allowed that? I don't know. I do know that I did not like what I felt(fit, flex, etc.) and that probably would have stunted my progress. So, please, don't think that I am writing off all other boots. If anything, I am demonstrating that trying out many different boots is the only way to learn what you demand/need from a boot.

Second, I do not think you have a bias against Tecnica or other brands. The thought never even crossed my mind when reading your post. If I gave that impression in my response, I apologize. I do expect you to respect that there are some of us that excel in boots that the majority don't. You of all people know that the boot is the most personal piece of ski equipment that a skier will buy and that the majority does not rule when selecting boots. It does provide a great starting point to look, though. I may be wrong, but, I got the impression that you are stating that the Salomons ski better because the majority(including yourself) believe they do, and they are right if that is the boot that inspires and permits them to advance their abilities the best. This is not true for ALL skiers, though. I know your aware of this, because in your first post you stated that the Rivals "don't fit many people well." Your statement is very true. on many levels. For some of us, it is the perfect fit, meaning feel, flex, confidence, etc., not just shape of foot.

I will not argue with you about working on the Rivals, or any other boot for that matter. I don't enjoy working on any boot and consider it nothing more than a necessary evil. Which is very unusual for me...I like to see what makes anything "tick" and see if I can make it "tick" better.

I think we both read into each others statements the wrong meaning. For that, I apologize. As I said before, I respect your opinions and advice. I guess I was just surprised and disappointed, even though I noticed you began your post by trying to qualify your comments. All I was trying to say was only you know what's right for you and did not intend to offend you, just defend the appearant minority of skiers who found a great boot in the Rivals.
post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by hercules
First, I haven't writen off everything else nor intended to give that impression. I stated that when I was shopping for boots, I go into the experience with a blind eye toward the brand. I had no idea that I would be leaving the store with Tecnicas that day, not to mention which specific boot model. I did this on purpose so I would not miss something because of bias. For all I knew, I could have left with a pair of salomons that day. The point is, I did not, nor am I, writing off any boot.
I wish everyone would go in with that kind of outlook. Thats the best thing you can do for your skiing and your wallet.
Quote:
They are just not the boot for me.
I'm sorry if I somehow implied they would be. There are a number of gotchas with them, and obviously they aren't for everyone. Me, for instance. They absolutely destroy my heels unless I put a lot of work into them.
Quote:
I am confident when I say that my X9's are the boot for me. They have allowed me to progress my skiing abilities to new levels that I didn't think possible.
I'm very glad to hear they are working for you. The reason I came out and made such an absolute statement is that IMO, if an XWave does fit someone, the Rival is probably just a comfortable shoebox on them that they'll be disappointed with in the long run.

What I'm saying here is that if the X-Wave does fit comfortably, its probably a better choice than a Rival.

I should have been more clear that if the X-Wave doesn't fit, that isn't necessarily the case.
Quote:
So, please, don't think that I am writing off all other boots. If anything, I am demonstrating that trying out many different boots is the only way to learn what you demand/need from a boot.
:
Quote:
I do expect you to respect that there are some of us that excel in boots that the majority don't. You of all people know that the boot is the most personal piece of ski equipment that a skier will buy and that the majority does not rule when selecting boots.
This is very true and I apologize for not making it clear that I feel the same way.
Quote:
It does provide a great starting point to look, though. I may be wrong, but, I got the impression that you are stating that the Salomons ski better because the majority(including yourself) believe they do, and they are right if that is the boot that inspires and permits them to advance their abilities the best.
My statements about them actually skiing better are more related to the materials and design than personal opinion or experience. You are obviously quite right that this experience depends largely on the individual, but there are some absolutes here.

For instance, the Rival is built with a material that doesn't have the hardness to pass boot-to-binding interface tests. The result are hard replaceable toe and heelpieces. Because of manufacturing inconsistencies, these often aren't all that uniformly connected to the toe and heel lug. This has an obvious, and believe it or not, noticeable effect on edge feel.

Some of my bias against this particular boot has to do with that as well. Last year we had to send back our entire collection of Rival X8's after two poor customers had their toe lugs fall off while at the mountain. This has reminded me to make sure all removable boot pieces are tight before they leave, and not to rely on the manufacturer for that. Oddly, it wasn't that they were "loose", it seemed that they just hadn't gotten enough material around the screw in production.

While its great that the Rival series fit some really high-volume skiers very well out of the box, for those that needed additional adjustments it was kind of a pain. Because of the nature of the material, the multi-injection design, and so on, its a very difficult boot to punch because it tends to tweak itself along its axis or try and rip its multiple durometer injected sections apart. While I personally don't care about aesthetic damage, many customers do, and its really difficult to punch a Rival without leaving some tell-tale marks. I actually had one woman nearly freak out because of a pair of tools marks on the outside of her boot. I guess you can't please everyone every time.

The new Vento series has stepped up to the plate with polyester TPU. Here is an interesting article about it: http://www.press.bayer.com/news/news...256FEB004C3331

Quote:
I will not argue with you about working on the Rivals, or any other boot for that matter. I don't enjoy working on any boot and consider it nothing more than a necessary evil. Which is very unusual for me...I like to see what makes anything "tick" and see if I can make it "tick" better.
I'm still not as comfortable and confident as I'd like to be, but I doubt I'll ever be. Its exacting work with pretty enormous consequences.
Quote:
All I was trying to say was only you know what's right for you and did not intend to offend you, just defend the appearant minority of skiers who found a great boot in the Rivals.
And I absolutely appreciate and respect that.
post #17 of 18
I have the Rival RX and have been skiing on them since last January. I am hardly an expert so I cannot comment on them for high performance but as far as fit and function they work if you have a large volume foot.

I went to a boot fitter who had me try just about anything and evetrything for a good fit and the RX was the only model that really seemed to work. I had custom footbeds made and some other work done. I have a very large instep. The boot tech said the Rival and Technica seemed to work best for folks with high volume feet or other foot issues(such as very large instep). I skied on them 3 days a week for 3 months and have noticed no problems with the liner packing out.

Also the Rival has a very steep ramp angle forward and the tech rep also mentioned this might not be to everyone's taste or style. I have had no problems and it actually helped me work on getting out of the back seat at times as I had to be centered farther forward in order to get a netural stance on the heel and toes.
post #18 of 18
skiingman, thanks for the link! I find it interesting because I had recently sent my resume to Bayer in Pittsburgh...didn't expect to see their involvement. I must admit that during a check of everything on my boots, after getting home with them from the ski shop, I found a toe lug that did need tightening. I have never had to tighten them after that, but, did find it odd(I just looked again to make sure). I had actually forgotten about that untill your comment above.

You take care and enjoy this years ski season!
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