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What's a pedal turn? - Page 3

post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Huh? The maneuver pre-dates Harb's works so I don't understand the reference to his book beyond the suggestion that even Harb recognizes and teaches it as a valid option for very steep terrain. Which is a bit curious since other PMTS pros often quote him here and suggest he is totally against steering and pivotted turn entries. Not that it matters though, the pedal hop turn is what it is and that includes the big steering component.

Is this "big steering component" active rotation of the femurs?

Ghost described the turn without such active rotation.  Is this "steering component" a non-carved skid that brings the skis around or are there actual movements associated with it?
post #62 of 71
A lot of the "information" provided in this thread differs from what I learned as a pedal turn, wayback in the day. Look at this definition, which is more in keeping with the earliest use of the term back in the '70's:

http://books.google.com/books?id=U_w8rVNwCREC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=pedal+turn+skiing&source=bl&ots=m4RH7-d_0B&sig=hQCJ0V4dUHy7G3Els1QYQo1i4Eo&hl=en&ei=6435Ss79EoyIsgOBsoHNCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA0Q6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=pedal%20turn%20skiing&f=false
post #63 of 71
Hey now are you saying us Americans can't dress on the slopes???? I will have you know that in the 70s I wore a hot pink jump suit! And loved it! Hey MOM stop showing those photos, I thought I burned them all !!!!!!!! LMAO

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post



Those French guys always had an extreme fearlessness in their skiing, and their fashion sense.

 
post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post

Now I'm confused. In a pdeal turn you are hopping off the outside ski.
 

I thought you hop off the old inside ski which is the up hill ski, then land it as new outside ski ?
post #65 of 71
RBC,

Potato, Pohtawtow. You understand the turn correctly. It's the old "old vs new" thing that is confusing. I lifted the description straight from the book.
post #66 of 71
Quote:
Ghost described the turn without such active rotation.  Is this "steering component" a non-carved skid that brings the skis around or are there actual movements associated with it?
 

As noted by Softsnowguy in post 45, the (mumble) theory is that a pedal hop turn can be accomplished with the change in direction occuring as a result only of tipping movements of the inside leg (emphasis on can and only together). When I'm on steep terrain, I really don't care what the theory is about how I'm turning. My experience is that pedaling is the only movement I need to think about. Steering, whether active, passive, torque, foot, leg/femur or cattle prod is usually driven by sheer panic (errr, survival focus). Elling (IWill's link) does not disagree with what's been posted here. In my book, how the steering is done is mostly irrelevant to the pedal hop turn. The skis need to come around quickly. Whether this is done all in the air or not and whether the landing is skidded or scarved and whether the airborne steering is done via tipping or foot steering has trivial impact on the effectiveness of the technique.
post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post

 In my book, how the steering is done is mostly irrelevant to the pedal hop turn. The skis need to come around quickly. Whether this is done all in the air or not and whether the landing is skidded or scarved and whether the airborne steering is done via tipping or foot steering has trivial impact on the effectiveness of the technique.
Ah yes therusty, but it has major impact on the discussion of the technique. If you're going to start making sense here, we'll have to give you a ticket for...uh..avoiding an argument?

Sheesh, "the skis need to come around quickly", why? because 45 degree pitches are scary? I mean really, where's your determination to sacrifice yourself for a theory?
post #68 of 71
 Actually theRusty, it does matter how the skis are turned.  

Some ways rely on skills/movements already developed.  Others suggest "Damn the skill! It's all about the outcome."   

I, for one, would rather have confidence that the movement patterns I am learning than find that my sphincter puckering is the primary movement that let's me "get 'er done".
post #69 of 71
Bing - You're now free to move about the mountain.

You nailed it Tog!
post #70 of 71
Thanks for the video - Saudan, Vallencant, Boivin, Tardivel - all those French skiers are amazing. When I lived in Geneva and would go climb things like the Swiss Route on the North Face of the Courtes or fly over the Mallory Route on Aiguille du Midi, it would astound me that people skied this stuff.

Was it Saudan who had the first descent of the North Face of the Courtes? I remember reading that whoever it was said it took him something like 15 minutes for the descent (800m vert with sections up to 70 degrees that he essentially had to straight run) and an hour to stop his legs from shaking and catch his breath at the bottom before he dared to turn around and look back at his tracks.
post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBC View Post

sorry for the late question, but what is the advantage of pedal hop turn vs. just hop turn, wouldn't hopping off outside ski much stronger than inside ski ( which is pedal turn).


thx
They save energy, allow the skis a little quicker contact with the snow (or constant contact) and gives you and "out" if you screw-up or get hung-up.  If you totally weight you outside ski and screw-up you have nothing left to save you.  Also, you certainly don't want your body twisting uphill in the steeps or you're done.  If you jump from one outside ski to the other on something 50 degrees + and counter when you land, you will have so much force (think high speed GS turns) that it will be very difficult to hold it without either tipping over or countering the counter (which means not enough counter and possible death).  The pedal turn in the steeps keeps things much smoother and consistent.  As Weems said, we do this to some extent in every turn.  When you get in a steep pitch that requires these turns, you very well may do it automatically.  Have you ever seen a little kid trying to make a very tight wedge turn on something "steep"?  They aren't weighting their new downhill ski to get around, but the new uphill ski because it takes a shorter path. 

I like pedal turns in steep bumps when I don't feel like charging.  Kneale said it best (I think) when she mentioned the percentages of weighting and unweighting.  I also liked the analogy of a clipless bike pedal.  When we cycle we don't pull up with our leg that is going up, we simply lighten it so it doesn't work against the leg we are pushing down with.  However, as soon as we hit the top of the stroke we have to start shifting the percentages of pressure in the reverse order.
Edited by Crud Buster - 3/23/10 at 11:25pm
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