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Using Gear Swap at Epic - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Thread Starter 
Call it what you want, it is none of your business. My connections have nothing to do with pro form, or shop form. It has more to do with friendship. I earn "no real money" from selling skis. I don't think that anyone does. Basically, it's a hobby of mine.
post #32 of 50
Canyons, the industry guys and ones on pro form have rules to follow and they do a pretty good job of self-policing. When I bought the Volkl Mantras in February this year they were all over it because there were not believed to be new skis in the retail channel. Who knows, maybe they gave Al's a hard time. Anyway, it all worked out and blew over. This thread will probably clear the air for you. You basically receive skis at a great price in lieu of compensation you might otherwise be entitled to. Thanks for sharing the wealth:
post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyons
Call it what you want, it is none of your business. My connections have nothing to do with pro form, or shop form. It has more to do with friendship. I earn "no real money" from selling skis. I don't think that anyone does. Basically, it's a hobby of mine.
I concur. I haven't filled out a proform in 8 years or so. But I have made some good friends and helped them move some skis. I have moved more gear than some of my biddies smaller shops, adn the best thing (for him is) I pay on delivery and I have yet to go belly up as compared to 30+% of the smaller ski shops out there.
post #34 of 50
Thread Starter 
I apologize for stepping on anyone's toes. This was not my intention. It often happens that people try to do something that they perceive as harmless, but others consider offensive. I never knew that people inside the ski industry are so uptight about the price of skis. To me, it is trivial. What can I say, I am naive. I view skiing as something fun, not ugly. Anyway, I always try to learn from my mistakes. It is never worth making enemies over good intentions. I probably won't offer anything here again.
Thank you for all of your responses and opinions.
post #35 of 50
I don't get why you're letting ONE guy intimidate you. Everyone else has been supportive.
post #36 of 50
Thread Starter 
There is no intimidation. This thread originated as an inquiry into peoples' thoughts regarding the use of the Gear Swap function of Epic Ski. Most people have opined that they have no problem with my behavior. At least 4 people (3 of whom are in the industry, one of whom just always seems to stir the mix) have expressed the concerns of professionals in the "industry". To be fair to everyone, I think that the best behavior may be to refrain from using this forum as an avenue to sell "new" product. Maybe, I will offer deals to bears by listing a product without a price, and asking bears to make an offer by way of PM. Truthfully, I need to give this more thought.
post #37 of 50

the value of a little $$$

I used to do the pro-form route myself. I have buds who continue to ski & benifit from the "industry" system. Most often this was/is b/c I was poor & needed a helping hand. This problem was I (& most others) ended up being the company's/rep's indentured servant. (dance monkey, DANCE)

Now I buy gear for myself. I even avoid "freebies" when others close to me take them. I am my own skier.

Canyons (or anyone) selling gear at a price worth paying, just lets some other ski folk take advantage of the pro-form set up. (no, I dont think he or Al's have sold the entire stock of Volkls & wrecked the pro form system)

I view his products as a worthy service. Asking him not to continue is like asking the entire indusrty to "play fair". Besides, dont you think Volkl is excited to see folks on a message board fighting over who desreves their product. Esp. when there is no snow on the ground!

If paying for skis avoids one being the companies bitch, its worht it at any price. Come on folks, isn't that what you're really upset about!!! The thought that someone less deserving than yourself beat the sysyem & will be skiing on new boards while you set up a tent, adjust binders, or stand next to a Dannon Yogurt employee while Joey asks "what's new is shaped skis?"
post #38 of 50
Canyons, I think what you are doing is fine and the prices you are offering are great to buyers. You and Inspector Gadget provide a valueable resource to this board. You might have to go IG's way, where he puts out a broad statement that he has "new 2005-06 skis. PM me for prices." Then you just deal in "personal" email space.

Anyway, I'm on your side. Volkl watches very closly what skis are bought on pro form and what skis end up for sale here, at TGR, and ebay.

Oh by the way to those who are intersested, Volkl is already sold out of pro stock in some of the models/lengths.:

HB
post #39 of 50
I have been lurking here for awhile and look forward to seeing what you put up for sale in the gear swap section.Your prices are fair and you seem to be very honest in your transactions.So whats the problem? Looking forward to seeing your future ski offerings.
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris D
I have been lurking here for awhile and look forward to seeing what you put up for sale in the gear swap section.Your prices are fair and you seem to be very honest in your transactions.So whats the problem? Looking forward to seeing your future ski offerings.
What a simple way to look at it. Makes sense, huh?
post #41 of 50
If one sells one or two prs of skis a year at 100 dollars "profit", I am not sure I call that a "profit". More of off setting the cost of your inconvience. Sellers have to go out of their way to post it, read it, mail it, deal with the guy who doesnt pay etc.
---------
See no problem with selling above "cost".
------
All of this said, hope everyone is being ethical out there with Pro forms, shop forms and of course not selling stolen skis. On this note, I think the buyer should querry any seller, ultimately the ethical burden in on the purchaser. I for one do not purchase CDs from pawn shops or "Record and Tape Traders". Being in the insurance industry, this is a prime outlet for stolen goods. CDs are like cash.
post #42 of 50
Canyons, check the PMs.
post #43 of 50

Some of us out here appreciate the offers

I, for one, hope to see as many people offfering gear as possible.
Each of us can evaluate whether the $ is a good one or not. If the buyer and the seller each benefit, what's wrong with that?
post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
Buffoon, you picked yourself a great name. I really hope you don't live in a glass house with the stones you are throwing.
Ditto. If you don't like the deal, walk away. Don't stand around moralizing and whining about it.
post #45 of 50
Thread Starter 
Bears: I have received a # of PMs as a result of this thread. While most bears encourage the listing of "good deals" in the Gear Swap chat room, others (mostly people in the industry) have voiced concern and have expressed the opinion that selling new 2006 product in this forum is against industry policy. I understand both points of view. I must respect the wishes of the retailers and others who do this for a living. I have no personal animosity for any of the posters to this thread. Everyone is just expressing an opinion. Nothing should be taken personally, and it is unfair to attack anyone personally for asserting a position. PEACE!
post #46 of 50
I have been lurking also...

Good discussion.

Don't stop selling if you enjoy it.

Obviously, people have been happy to deal with you, and what is better than doing what you enjoy and making others happy?
post #47 of 50

Reopening a can of worms. or Mr. Pot meets Mr. Kettle???

It should come as no surprise that I have something to add to this discussion. And, please, know that I am not saying what I do in Gear Swap is acceptable and what others do is unacceptable. Now, speaking out of the other side of my mouth, I absolutely disagree with buying gear at industry prices and reselling for a profit. Selling gear after a reasonable period of use, however, is entirely different. Buying current model gear from a “friend” - irrespective of the source your friend gets the equipment from – and reselling for profit is in no way in the spirit of industry pricing.

Allow me to clarify: I do not own a ski shop now nor have I ever. I am no longer an industry professional and haven’t been for over 13 years. Not that it much matters, but I did work for Volkl directly in the mid-eighties. Now, for lack of a better job description, a complimentary title would be area rep at large. Though, more likely, I am the garage sale guy. Nonetheless, I enjoy my loose association with a brand I sincerely believe in and a product I enjoy using. How perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach13
... is there really a difference between dog catching advertising and hooking people up with his ski shop, or Inspector Gadget doing the same?
Not knowing the definition of dog catching advertising; is there a difference? The difference, I suppose, is in the price you pay and to whom you pay it. Do I support the retailer? Yes, I do.

Do I support the right of a person that is buying gear at industry prices and, rather than using it themselves as they committed when they signed the form, they sell the gear at a profit? I do not. Neither does the manufacturer that offered the merchandise at a deep discount in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffoon
yep,

I am the low baller! First of all you posted how much you paid {not a good idea when you receive professional courtesy IE pro-form or shop-form ETC.} Do you think that certain company is happy you are attempting to pocket a $100 or more when you are not even representing there product! I wrote what I did because there are others that are entitled to the same deal you were given – Patrollers, coaches, instructors and local rippers etc. However, since the ski is out of stock, they are out of luck and you are a $100 richer. Yes I do think this is wrong and if I were a certain company and knew of your activities I would probably end that courtesy. However if "company" gives you a certain stock of skis to sell to the "Bears" at an authorized slightly discounted price that is different and I will eat my own words and apologize for my behavior. FLAME on if you like. But, I am speaking for those of us that have made this industry our life day in and day out.
I am just trying to protect our privileges from being yanked!

PS. you could have avoided this if you did not brag about how cheap a deal you got!

edit - Used equipment is a different story.
How much any seller – retail or otherwise – paid for a product is nobody’s business but their own. Having not seen Canyon’s thread, I don’t know what was said about his cost of acquisition. However, if he did, in fact, state his cost, I would say that doing so was less than intelligent on his part. (No offense intended Canyons, but if the shoe fits . . . .)

Buffoon’s low-ball offer flies in the face of an industry that attempts to be self-policing, but is undermined by the bro-deal. How ironic that a person, eligible for industry pricing, wants a better price than what they are otherwise entitled to based on their professional industry status. Professional, in the context of this discussion is subject to a very broad interpretation.

It bugs me to no end when I receive an inquiry and the prospective buyer’s response to my quoted price is “I can buy them for less on a form.” If this is truly the case, then why in the hell are you calling me!


Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
This problem was I (& most others) ended up being the company's/rep's indentured servant. (dance monkey, DANCE)
Oh please. You poor, poor boy. You are a slave to the ski industry . . . . so tragic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
Now I buy gear for myself. I even avoid "freebies" when others close to me take them. I am my own skier.
Freed, at last, from the evil empire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
Canyons (or anyone) selling gear at a price worth paying, just lets some other ski folk take advantage of the pro-form set up. (no, I dont think he or Al's have sold the entire stock of Volkls & wrecked the pro form system)
The idea behind industry pricing is not to let other ski folk take advantage of the pro-form set up! This mentality is exactly what people are upset about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
Besides, dont you think Volkl is excited to see folks on a message board fighting over who deserves their product.
Actually, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
Esp. when there is no snow on the ground!
Snow on the ground or not; no manufacturer is in the least bit excited about their skis being sold for well under their established pricing structure. Admittedly, hardly anybody pays Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) for sports equipment these days. Typically, the prices you see in advertisements and at your local retailer is the Minimum Advertised Price or MAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
If paying for skis avoids one being the companies bitch, its worth it at any price. Come on folks, isn't that what you're really upset about!!! The thought that someone less deserving than yourself beat the system & will be skiing on new boards while you set up a tent, adjust binders, or stand next to a Dannon Yogurt employee while Joey asks "what's new is shaped skis?"
You, sir, are a jackass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarkinBanks
Canyons, I think what you are doing is fine and the prices you are offering are great to buyers. You and Inspector Gadget provide a valuable resource to this board. You might have to go IG's way, where he puts out a broad statement that he has "new 2005-06 skis. PM me for prices." Then you just deal in "personal" email space.
Going forward and even now, what I post in Gear Swap will be sans model names, model years, and never will I post prices. While I certainly don’t mind if someone bumps my thread to the top of the slagheap with a post offering (what I would hope is) a thank you; I generally ask that the specifics of our transaction be left out their post.

Dealing through the private message system works just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarkinBanks
Volkl watches very closely what skis are bought on pro form and what skis end up for sale here, at TGR, and ebay.
Make no mistake, Volkl and other manufacturers are watching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyons
Bears: I have received a # of PMs as a result of this thread. While most bears encourage the listing of "good deals" in the Gear Swap chat room, others (mostly people in the industry) have voiced concern and have expressed the opinion that selling new 2006 product in this forum is against industry policy. I understand both points of view. I must respect the wishes of the retailers and others who do this for a living. I have no personal animosity for any of the posters to this thread. Everyone is just expressing an opinion. Nothing should be taken personally, and it is unfair to attack anyone personally for asserting a position. PEACE!
While I generally concur with Canyons’ comments above, I still think iriponsnow is a jackass.

Just expressing my opinion.

post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
If you feel something is worth the price, buy it, if you don't think it is worth the price, don't. It is pretty simple. It is an open market, to chanstise soemone for making a few bucks even if they are selling it at or around "market value", if you have a problem with it, get a life.
Ditto. Win-win situation and if you don't like anything for sale, don't buy it. I wouldn't waste another sec worrying about this nonsense.
post #49 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffoon
yep,

I am the the low baller! First of all you posted how much you paid{not a good idea when you recieve professional curtousy IE pro-form or shop-form ETC.}Do you think that certin company is happy you are attempting to pocket a $100 or more when you are not even representing there product! I wrote what I did because there are others that are intitled to the same deal you were given Patrollers.Coaches,instructors and local rippers etc. However since the ski is out of stock. they are out of luck and you are a $100 richer. Yes I do think this is wrong and if I were a certin company and knew of you activities I would probably end that curtousy. However if "company" gives you a certin stock of skis to sell to the "Bears" at a authorized slightly discounted price that is different and I will eat my own words and apoligize for my behavior. FLAME on if you like but I' am speaking for those of us that have made this industry our life day in and day out.
I am just trying to protect our privlages from being yanked!
PS. you could of avioded this if you did not brag about how cheap a deal you got!

edit- Used equipement is a different story.
Your screen name says it all
post #50 of 50
Quote:
If you feel something is worth the price, buy it, if you don't think it is worth the price, don't. It is pretty simple. It is an open market, to chanstise soemone for making a few bucks even if they are selling it at or around "market value", if you have a problem with it, get a life.
Absolutely agree.
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