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Am I wrong to be upset?

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Well I have just been forced into buying some new skis. I just bought some 05 karmas and bindings for $600 cdn. Thankfully I got a good price.

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Personal Info:
5'9"
165-170 lbs at the time
level 7 skier.
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Why was I forced?

Because of my defective Volkl Carvers. I loved these skis, and was always good to them. Over a period of 3 seasons, I skiied on them a max of 20 times. Now I skiied Whistler/Blackcomb, Whitewater, Fernie, Castle mountain, and Sun Peaks. These are all western ski hills. The worst conditions I ever skiied on these were hardpack, not ice. Now I'd expect this ski to last more than ~20 times. I'd say, 50+.

Well they have not. I have links to a couple pictures on the bottom of the page. Not sure what has happened to them, but a ski shop guessed that it may be de-lamination. Now I don't think a Volkl ski (higher quality), should be in this condition after 20 uses.

I've asked for an direct replacement, but I was sure they didn't have anything like that in stock anymore. Just anything a few years old. I did not want to take them to the cleaners. The gentlemen that I was in contact w/ from Volkl Canada, continually dodged my questions w/ 'warranty' rhetoric, and said he had sent my name onto a sales rep.

2.5 weeks go by as I patiently wait for someone to call. No one calls. I email my volkl contact again, and he gives me the 'warranty' rhetoric again, and tells me that the sales rep said he could not help me. So 'supposedly' this guy has talked to the local sales rep. Would've been nice if the sales rep could've called me. This is what the volkl contact initially said would've happened, but it never did.

I feel like I'm getting dinked a round. Heck, i'd be happy if they would just fix the problem (what ever it is, b/c the volkl contact never helped me w/ that either). Now I just feel like i'm getting dinked around.

Am I in the wrong for feeling this way? I'm confused now. Any recommendations on what to do from this point on w/ respect to my situation?

thanks for any help.

Pictures can be found here:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2119984401

(it's an album of 4 pictures, so just click to go inside the album, and the pics of my skis are the 3rd and 4th pics....thanks for taking a peek)
post #2 of 28
Thread Starter 
if you do not have an account w/ imagestation. pm me, and i'll give you mine to log in w/.

cheers
post #3 of 28
yo matt, I have no info on the Mantras, but wanted to ask...

how's the weather up in Nelson? I need a Nelson MTB trails fix. fall is a great time for that.
post #4 of 28
Keep trying. I've had very good luck with Volkl in the past. They replaced two pairs of skis that bent with brand new versions. It may be that it will be easier for them to get you a pair of comparable this or last year's skis than trying to come up with the same skis you had. When we did it, we did it through the shop where they were purchased and then Volkl contacted us.
post #5 of 28
Its hard to tell from the picture just what is going on. But it sure looks ODD and UNUSUAL. Mom beat me to it? Did you try going through the shop where you bought them.
post #6 of 28
From the pic, it looks like the base material bubled due to excessive heat. That isnt something that should be a warrenty issue. It is more of an issue with whoever waxed your skis, or your self if you stored them to close to a heat source. A normal delam would not create a buble in the base like that.
post #7 of 28
Well, I would certainly be mad if a pair of skis failed in that length of usage. But, I would be more mad about not getting a straight answer from Volkl.

Even if mtbakerskier is right about the cause and it not being a warranty issue - Volkl needs to tell you that, not jerk you around. And, honestly, I think a reasonable company would at a minimum give you some sort of discount on a new pair even if they thought it was your fault - that's just smart business and customer relations, IMHO. But, again, let THEM tell you that it is not a defect - heck, even if it was caused by heat, what if it was caused because THIS particular pair couldn't handle the normal waxing temperature every other ski can? Look, the only facts you have are these skis failed for no apparent (to you) reason & Volkl has got to realize that a customer (even if you inadvertently are the cause of the damage) is not going to be a happy camper/long term customer if this is life performance of the ski in your possession.

I would be persistent, I do think you will get (and deserve) something out of Volkl in the end. I have gone so far with companies as to write letters on up the line until I get what I think is fair, if the lower level people I am dealing with can't (or won't) help me. Be pleasant but persistent is my advice, and if one individual is not being helpful, find someone else to deal with.
post #8 of 28
I will probably never buy Volkls again after the really hard time they gave me and my wife with a warranty issue.

In your instance though, I would say getting anything from them on a pair of skis that are 3 seasons old would be a plus.

I think their warranty is only 1-2 years.
post #9 of 28
Volkls used to be the best. They were very very expensive, but you got a great ski, great service and great customer support. Hewitt Packard used to THE computer to buy.

Things change.
post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
From the pic, it looks like the base material bubled due to excessive heat. That isnt something that should be a warrenty issue. It is more of an issue with whoever waxed your skis, or your self if you stored them to close to a heat source. A normal delam would not create a buble in the base like that.
MBS, you are correct. This is what we call a base bubble. It is caused by excessive heat. Definitely not a warranty issue.
Sorry Matt.

It can be fixed at a good shop though. They can cut out the bubble and lay in a patch. In the shovel like that, it has to bond really well though or, it will pop out.

That repair could cost a bit too. Depending on the shop. Good Luck Matt.
post #11 of 28
Have a shop sent them back for you. At worst you should get a discounted pair (Volkl's cost I believe).

The shop I was at last year had a pair of gammas, where they were left on the roof for a trip down south, to CO and back to Mich without a bag or box. Pretty well rusted, the skis had some damage to the sidewall and edges, like something punched it from the side at a downward angle such as a nail set. It was prettly clear that there was nothing on the slope that could have caused it, unless while she was falling her leg got twisted up and smashed hard into a sharp pointed rock (she walked just fine into the store). Interestingly her husband was the bitter one who was demanding that Volkl do something, and how he'll never buy a Volkl again etc.
I don't recall if he took Volkl up on their offer or if he got it fixed at the shop.

Long story short taking them to a shop might get you a better and quicker response. Warranty dept should be pretty light right now.
post #12 of 28
That's the thinnest point of the ski, and the bit that gets hot the fastest when waxing. I guess the waxing culprit is probably the right one, although the shape of the bubble is puzzling.
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant
That's the thinnest point of the ski, and the bit that gets hot the fastest when waxing. I guess the waxing culprit is probably the right one, although the shape of the bubble is puzzling.
It looks like it was left against a hot pipe or something. Like a baseboard heater?
post #14 of 28
Yeah, that could explain it... you might be on the nail.
post #15 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
It looks like it was left against a hot pipe or something. Like a baseboard heater?
A Hot Iron will not produce that type of buble. If a hot iron / an iron that is left on a ski, it will leave a "singe" type effect on the base material, where wax can no longer be absorbed. The only way to create a buble in the base like that is due to hot forced air. Most likely from a heat gun, or possiblly direct exposure to a forced air vent, however most home heating systems do not produce enough heat to create a buble of this magnitude. That being said, why should Volkl be at all responsible for a mistake that either you made, or one that the shopr that you took the skis to for work made. There is absolutly no way that any type of factory error could have caused that type of a base bubble. The only way the factory could have caused that would be if they some how altered the chemical structure of the polymer wich is doubt full, or be they didnt adequatly press the ski, wich would have resulted in multiple delams the first few times the skis where used. Use some common sence, you are well past the expiration date of the warrenty, and it is a defect due to neglect by the owner or a shop, why should Volkl bear any of the responsibility?
post #16 of 28
For skis with ironing damage, they sure look dried out. And that is the tip. The tails have similar damage. The wierd thing is how this appeared over the summer. Did you store them in the attic? BTW, a shop might be able to inject some epoxy behind that bubble, clamp it down then stone grind. You never know, it might work.


post #17 of 28
There's an old story about a guy laying up skis and eating fried chicken at the same time....
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluff Vertigo
There's an old story about a guy laying up skis and eating fried chicken at the same time....
I don't think Volkl lays up by hand anymore. In fact I think Stokli is the only major manufacturer that still does.
post #19 of 28
I once got back from a bike ride and noticed melted plastic stuck to the side of my Honda:. It turns out my rain suit was flapping in the breeze and the friction melted some of it.

I noticed that one of my ski bags, was wearing out (I had a small car at the time). It was flapping in the wind. There is a small chance that a ski bag flapping in the breeze and rubbing against your ski could have heated it up.

What concerns me is the customer service. Did you bring the skis back where you bought them?
post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 
hey you all...thanks so much for the replies.

gonzo: the weather is crap in nelson right now. It is supposed to rain for a solid week or so coming up here. But when it rains, that means there is the possibility for snow up at whitewater's peaks. To bad we need ~60 cm base just to be able to open the hill. But if you plan on making a trip to Nelson, I can talk to a buddy of mine to get some good trail ideas for you. Sponsored rider, who builds trails, so he's probably be able to help you out.

mtbaker: the whole reason I created this thread was to get your opinions. The volkl contact left me in the dark, as to what the problem was. I have never seen anything like this before, so initially i think it must be a defect. thankfully, you guys seem to have it nailed on the head. If is it not a manufacturer's defect, volkl doesn't owe me anything. It is now the problem of sport chek, where i bought the ski, and always got them waxed.

as for storage, we always store our skis in my parents basement. avg temperature in summer and winter is around 14 degrees celcius. I lean them up against a wall, still clamped together.

ghost: I think that is why i've gotten so upset. Their service is horrible. The volkl contact seems to want to dodge blame instead of coming to a resolution as to what happened to the ski. Maybe it is my fault. I'm ok with that, but at least let me know what's wrong with the ski, and how I can fix it. That's what really pissed me off.

what have I done:

I've taken them to Sport Chek, and they are sending them back to a volkl distributor in Calgary to check out the ski. From the sounds of it, I think they'll conclude that it wasn't their product that was defective.

maybe i'll just use them as rock skis, and attempt to ski on them. definitely dissappointing having a $300+ ski setup become garbage in a blink of an eye.....BBBOOOOO

oh well, thankfully I have the karmas coming.

thanks for the opinions, and recommendations.

will let you know exactly what was going on.

cheers

PS: for all those living in the North West States. go ski whitewater, cheap prices, and amazing powder. it's 2 hours north of spokane, just outside of Nelson.
post #21 of 28

air or material in bubble?

this looks my linoleum floor two days after self-installation

can you push the bubble down?

anyway, the floor people told me to make a _small_ hole in the center of the bubble, which i did, and which worked

not that a floor is the same a the underside of a ski, but hey, doesnt seem like
it could hurt either

might also turn out that they still ski pretty well, just no one else will want to buy em

good luck
post #22 of 28
Thread Starter 
yes, i can push the bubble down.

might be a good way to go if i can't get a replacement ski.
post #23 of 28
" the problem of sport chek, where i bought the ski,/ volkl distributor in Calgary "
-mistake one: you bought them at sport chek(which as far as i know hasn't carried volkl for at least 6 or 7 years
-mistake two: you got them serviced at sport chek, and for sure that bubble could have been caused by an iron(toko mouse maybe?)
-mistake three: there hasn't been a volkl distributor in Calgary for about 6 or 7 years so someone is blowing smoke up your butt
-mistake four: warranty is usually for one year and only covers workmanship and defects whether or not they have one day or 20 the skis are way over any reasonable warranty recourse
- there has to be a real service shop in nelson that can cut a patch or inject epoxy and press the bubble down with the right equipment(or send them to Vancouver ski service)
-i would bet that no one fron the chek ever contacted volkl as they are not a supplier to the chain

" Volkl lays up by hand anymore. In fact I think Stokli is the only major manufacturer that still does"
fwiw almost all the companies making wood skis are laying things up by hand to some extent especially in the race room stuff but not restricted to that
post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluff Vertigo
There's an old story about a guy laying up skis and eating fried chicken at the same time....
Quote:
Originally Posted by offpiste
I don't think Volkl lays up by hand anymore. In fact I think Stokli is the only major manufacturer that still does.
Doesn't matter. If any oily or otherwise non-adhering substance was laid on or brushed against the topside of the bases prior to pressing, it will cause a base bubble, because the base did not bond to the epoxy. In which case it would be a manufacturing defect.
But my money would go on someone laying them somewhere they shouldn't have been or hittting them with an iron that was too hot.
post #25 of 28
There is an alien inside.
post #26 of 28
Thread Starter 
yah, i named the alien, bob. he didn't like thta much, so he f'ed off, and left the bubble.

well, all i know is that sport chek has my skis and they are sending them somewhere to have them looked at.

I have never waxed my own skis, so I know I would not be at fault for ironing them improperly....stupid alien.

and where i stored them, it doesn't get more plush for a ski. it's like they were in a wine cellar.

we'll see what comes of the situation. they guys that i dealt with were nice. they said that they'd get creative w/ the age of the ski.
post #27 of 28
Prediction: you will get an adjustment; if not new replacement, then a discount. That damage is just too wierd. Volkl will tear down the ski to figure it out and give you a coupon for a replacement. If Volkl finds a drumstick (or alien) laminated into the matrix, you get new skis.

Be sure to post back and let us know.
post #28 of 28
I have never owned Volkls and probably never will. In my opinion they are tremedously over-priced, rivaled only by Atomic and their damn metrons , and from what I've read on these boards and heard from friends, they are not very durable.
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