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Drilling Ski's more then Twice; Opinions

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
So I just bought a Seth Pistol. Great shape already drilled twice. My cuz runs a few rental shops and his tech was a rep for a big ski company. They know what they are talking about but I like the opinions here as well.

The seth is in great shape but the binding is mounted at +5. I'm not spinning so I wanted them mounted back for all mountain.

This will be its third mount. The techs said they think it'll be fine and they'll go over all the possibilities.

Right now Its been bound once for a tyrolia. Has Marker holes and I'm probably gonna switch out the tyrolia with a salomon 900. Oh yea the Seth Pistol has a wood core.


Just looking for horror stories or stories that are like yea it works fine. Anyways thanks everyone! I got the ski and binding for 2 bills so I think I got a good deal.
post #2 of 24
you should be okay as the holes will be nowhere near each other, make sure they are glued and plugged(plastic plugs) and you should be good to go.
really the only skis you would have to worry about would be the pre-atomic volants(full steel cap versions) as they had a tendency to break at old holes...
post #3 of 24
Skis can be like Terminator: lots of holes but still happy alive.
Based on my experience (not with Seth Pistols, though) you should be okay if you aren´t too wild in bigger bumps and if there´s reasonable space between old and new holes (cf. waxman´s post) which should be .5cm at least, more is better.

I´d be probably happier with well-glued solid wood plugs in a ski with wood core but I don´t think there´s much difference.
post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys sounds good! The seths will be my powder ski/big mountain ski. Probably will use it on narly bumps in the steeps here and there but I'll make my public enemies my bump ski definitly
post #5 of 24
cr, the issue i have with wood plugs is they are wood so therefore you will always have the tendency to absorb water which may migrate(correct term?) to the core...glue is your friend in either situation...
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxman
cr, the issue i have with wood plugs is they are wood so therefore you will always have the tendency to absorb water which may migrate(correct term?) to the core...glue is your friend in either situation...
Sure, I know what you mean and almost expected your reaction. I agree that it´s quite demanding to seal the holes sufficiently (the plugs slightly shorter and the top of the hole covered with some epoxi: glue is my friend as well). Otoh, the holes with plastic plugs should be sealed anyway for the water/moisture not to get in.
But if you want me to agree that plastic plugs are a more practical solution I´m game. From the last 100 plugs I have used only 16 or 18 were wood...
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
Sure, I know what you mean and almost expected your reaction. I agree that it´s quite demanding to seal the holes sufficiently (the plugs slightly shorter and the top of the hole covered with some epoxi: glue is my friend as well). Otoh, the holes with plastic plugs should be sealed anyway for the water/moisture not to get in.
But if you want me to agree that plastic plugs are a more practical solution I´m game. From the last 100 plugs I have used only 16 or 18 were wood...
They are using plastic ones on my ski's and possibly metal if something strange happens. Am I right to assume that its better to have a wood core when remounting?
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by acsguitar
They are using plastic ones on my ski's and possibly metal if something strange happens. Am I right to assume that its better to have a wood core when remounting?
I wouldn´t say that but I have never discussed it with some highly experienced serviceman so that it´s MVHO (very humble).
I guess it might depend on the quality of the core material (cf. the other thread running on wood vs. foam core). High-quality "foam" is homogenous material with no irregularities wood might have and it doesn´t soak with water - which would be its strong points.
I had some cheap foam test skis with 4 re-mountings and a corresponding number of holes and they were still okay. (Maybe slightly softer which was a benefit.)
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
I wouldn´t say that but I have never discussed it with some highly experienced serviceman so that it´s MVHO (very humble).
I guess it might depend on the quality of the core material (cf. the other thread running on wood vs. foam core). High-quality "foam" is homogenous material with no irregularities wood might have and it doesn´t soak with water - which would be its strong points.
I had some cheap foam test skis with 4 re-mountings and a corresponding number of holes and they were still okay. (Maybe slightly softer which was a benefit.)
Interesting. I figured wood would be stronger. Just talked to my Tech and he's recommending I keep them at +5 due to the holes being to close. Oh well Not a big deal I learn to ski at that Thanks for the help guys!
post #10 of 24
I know nothing about this sort of thing but I am wondering, why can you not just fill the holes with epoxy? Why do you even need plugs?
post #11 of 24
you should have no problem. I have a couple of pair with 3 plus holes and there is no differnce in performance.
post #12 of 24
epoxy, although it is flexible may crack or fracture and some commercial brands absorb water, an epoxy plug may lso "pop" out if there was contamination in the hole...
post #13 of 24
Some skis it just flat doesn't matter, on others its a big deal (as waxman noted stress risers on old Volants).

Example: I have a pair of old Pocket Rockets with at least twenty holes each...and about half of them aren't plugged....they still ski fine and I haven't found any problems caused by freezing in the foam core yet.

Absolutely most important thing with a seth-pistol: use the 3.6x9 instead of the 4.1x9 drill. I've seen more than one binding come out of a K2 of similar construction that was installed with the latter.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
Some skis it just flat doesn't matter, on others its a big deal (as waxman noted stress risers on old Volants).

Example: I have a pair of old Pocket Rockets with at least twenty holes each...and about half of them aren't plugged....they still ski fine and I haven't found any problems caused by freezing in the foam core yet.

Absolutely most important thing with a seth-pistol: use the 3.6x9 instead of the 4.1x9 drill. I've seen more than one binding come out of a K2 of similar construction that was installed with the latter.
I guess I do not understand enough about the construction of skis. I just cant come up with a logical reason of how 20 holes in each ski would not weaken and hurt the performance of the ski. Especially with half of them not plugged:
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
Absolutely most important thing with a seth-pistol: use the 3.6x9 instead of the 4.1x9 drill. I've seen more than one binding come out of a K2 of similar construction that was installed with the latter.
I´d expect to find the info on the ski. :
Or is what they write wrong?
post #16 of 24

Why not mount at +1

acsguitar: ??

If they are currently at +5 and the holes are too close together to remount them at "normal" why not just remount them at +1. That should still be a big change and should get you more than 1/2 " from other holes?
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
I´d expect to find the info on the ski. :
Or is what they write wrong?
You'd be surprised how many people are incapable of following the directions on the sidewall. Perhaps its too much trouble to swap the bit? lol. But yes, you are correct, the info is on the ski.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckingfellers
I guess I do not understand enough about the construction of skis. I just cant come up with a logical reason of how 20 holes in each ski would not weaken and hurt the performance of the ski. Especially with half of them not plugged:
Various skis are built in various ways. Widely different in the way they handle and distribute loads.

Most of the load in those Pocket Rockets probably is in the topsheet. So you would think tons of holes in the topsheet would be a big deal. Since the topsheet is plastic, not metal like the stressed-skin topsheet on an old Volant, it doesn't seem to suffer from fatigue failures.

If you did the math, I think you'd find that a 20 4mm holes in a surface that is 1.85 meters long and averages 100-105mm wide is a pretty negligible amount. For the same reason people can and do successfully drill "lightening" holes in a variety of products, such holes in a ski don't make a huge difference. Particularly if the skin isn't going to crack from stress.

Interestingly, I don't really know what the effects of a ton of holes in a metal-laminate ski are. Not plugging them could be bad news in short order with freezing and thawing, but I don't believe I've personally felt a decline in performance I could attribute to extra holes. The difference in feel between brands of bindings is noticeable though, so perhaps that is sometimes confused with the ski performance.
post #19 of 24
"what the effects of a ton of holes in a metal-laminate ski are" in the old days of 225cmish DH boards the really arcane wizards of WC service were known to drill lots more holes in the ski and then pound .177 air rifle pellets/lead shot/lead wire into the holes to get more weight under the foot(other than vibration induced delams it is pretty much impossible to break a DH/SH board under the binding)

so i would guess not much effect? i haven't seen anything like that since mid to late 80s though ....
post #20 of 24
Wow, very interesting practice. Thanks for that info.
post #21 of 24
Never heard either. Great info. Those thick planks surely could take some more holes.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxman
in the old days of 225cmish DH boards the really arcane wizards of WC service were known to drill lots more holes in the ski and then pound .177 air rifle pellets/lead shot/lead wire into the holes to get more weight under the foot
Did they just want more weight, more mass underfoot, or did they think it could influence the vibration management? Or anything else?
Thanks.
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
Turns out everyone in the K2 forums say the +5 setting is pretty good for this ski on all mountain.

So anyways i'll check it out. Good discussions
post #24 of 24
probably all of the above, remember these were the days that guys would file the nicks and edges off their bindings to make them more aerodynamic (Dave Irwin for instance)
ski racing is just as much mental as technical look at all the "he's on eberharters skis" etc stuff we see now....
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