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Epic can be a tough room at times - Page 2

post #31 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdog1
The death of most forums occurs when the same handful of folks are there for a long period of time and begin to regard the forum as "theirs".

They lose patience for repetitive Q's, "use the search function, noob!", or "get lost troll".

They stop participating in beginner topics, and assume an air of superiority, and they just make it a generally unpleasant and intimidating place for new visitors.

I'm guilty to a degree, as are many of you.

All you can do is really, 1) chime in when you actually have something useful to say, or 2)shut up.

IMHO
Great insight xdog. I just felt it was worth repeating.
post #32 of 65
These introspective threads have tied my tongue in a knot.
post #33 of 65
I cUM here for the spelling flames becoz eveyone knows that GOOD Speling ROOOLZ and how you SPEL defines what you are and how you ski. N'ecst ces paz?
post #34 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson
.

Garbagemouthing should be on a garbage forum, not on Epic when it tries to be the most serious ski outlet on the internet.
Maybe thats the GOD DAM PROBLEM! Skiing is supposed to be FUN. I doubt anyone could come up with a decent argument about that. It apears to me that many of the posters here tend to forget that at times. Learn to reax, and to not take things so seriously, you will live longer, you will be happier, and I bet you just might learn more.

That being said, if I didnt use the tatics that I did, it wouldnt have gotten your attention, and it wouldnt make you stop and think. Sometims a little edumacation is needed when the current from of education isnt working. Quite frankly I dont care if you guys want to think that I am some prick etc, if I at least make you stop and think about the problems with skiing today, and that causes you to think about how your actions effect the sport both positively and negatively, I'll be happy.
post #35 of 65
Where is the fun in thinking continually that one must ponder the "problems" related to skiing? I don't go skiing to think about the world's or my own troubles. I go skiing because I love the sense of flow downhill and over the snow. I enjoy being outdoors. I get a kick out of the views. I especially have fun when I can share some of that environment and circumstance with others, when I see a face light up with the realization of how that flow works.

My reason for coming to Epic and inviting others here is to expand that sharing.

I don't need someone to jerk my chain. Life and skiing are not stale topics. If every thread is going to turn into some one-sided swearfest by the devil's advocate for whatever it is he thinks he's able to stir up, I'll have no reason to keep coming here or contributing to the site's support.
post #36 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
That being said, if I didnt use the tatics that I did, it wouldnt have gotten your attention, and it wouldnt make you stop and think...
Can't say I really agree with you. There are times your writing really makes me angry, and I make a point of not posting to the thread until I've had time to cool off. That said, I bet you're a real hoot to ski with.
post #37 of 65
I have a notion that people who get agitated and aggressive are more of a problem to skiing than people who sometimes might over-analyse it.
post #38 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant
I have a notion that people who get agitated and aggressive are more of a problem to skiing than people who sometimes might over-analyse it.
some people are aggressive intellectually while not pining for a fistfight.
post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
These introspective threads have tied my tongue in a knot.
That's why I type with my fingers.
post #40 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by pheft
That's why I type with my fingers.
Perfect.
post #41 of 65
Quote:
If every thread is going to turn into some one-sided swearfest by the devil's advocate for whatever it is he thinks he's able to stir up, I'll have no reason to keep coming here or contributing to the site's support.
I'll second that.
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA
I'll second that.
The reason to keep returning is to preserve the civility that we can have. It's easy to do when those that want it keep modeling it.
post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA
I'll second that.
Please folks, before you start to bail out, please remember that trolls are usually short lived and devil's advocates that aren't trolls usually tire of being lightning rods (Gonz, an exception that proves the rule), and begin to let their humanity show through. Let's not panic because some guy that's been here a very short time arrived with a bang.
post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson
I don't need someone to jerk my chain. Life and skiing are not stale topics. If every thread is going to turn into some one-sided swearfest by the devil's advocate for whatever it is he thinks he's able to stir up, I'll have no reason to keep coming here or contributing to the site's support.
I unfortunately am somewhat in agreement with this statement. I nearly went back to lurking a few months ago but stuck it out. The name calling and mean spirited postings the past month or so trouble me. Perhaps it is a sign of the troubled times we live in and the recent difficult events. Regardless, the once clear line between bears and maggots is blurring. What is a huge concern is some very respected members/ ski professionals appear to participate in it now regularly. The whole TCS response is out of control and the MBS scenario was bad, tho appears to be getting better. Ski pros even commenting on TCS is like me, a 4.0 tennis player commenting on a 2.5 wed night league doubles match, they just don't hit the ball like I do, it isn't relevant to comment on. Makes no sense. Zero.

Good guys like HB and CR attacked in multiple threads for trying to help others with equipment questions and give "boots on the snow" advice?

Sucks.

I am gonna tough it out and see what happens when the snow flies. Epicski has much to offer. It is a great bold experiment. But the meanness....I can't afford the energy drain. I have suggested in 2 threads previously that IMO the simple answer for all is before you flame walk away. That will end most of it....but who am I to say? Maybe some of these trolls are so mean 10 minutes away will only give them time to dream up more rotten crap to say. I love the sport of skiing and I have lived it nearly all my life, and like to think I know just a wee bit about it - but I'm smart enuff to know epic won't miss me for a minute. I've met some fabulous folks here tho, some I actually hope to make turns with....soooo

.....I'm gonna ramp up the ignore list and see what happens, many say it is just a phase, we'll see....for now.

The only reason I comment is because I care.......and I am probably way outta line here anyway.....IMHO we all fix it or it's going down....or turning into maggotville.....

As I await getting flamed....

might be time for a bit of lurking......

Like Alice

or

Seven

my .02, nothing more
post #45 of 65
Weems had it right when he said the answer is not to bail out, but to model civility for others who seem to lack it. There was a nice quote by Carlyle on My Excite page last week, something along the lines of, if you can resist being a scoundrel there will be at least one less scoundrel in the world.
post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Weems had it right when he said the answer is not to bail out, but to model civility for others who seem to lack it. There was a nice quote by Carlyle on My Excite page last week, something along the lines of, if you can resist being a scoundrel there will be at least one less scoundrel in the world.
agreed Nolo....

but my job is too demanding and my pursuit of multi sport perfection too consuming.....as I've said before....if I ain't smilin' I ain't got time for it....

sooo I'll lurk a bit till the snow flies...then we'll see how it goes....you however got too much invested. Keep up the good fight....you are always above the fray and an inspiration to all

shot 31 (par 27) btw...but had to scramble a bit...much work still to do on the perfect swing hrstrat57 style....course record might not fall till next season unless I get away from this darn keyboard and hit some more balls!!!

ttyl
post #47 of 65
Something that EpicSki prides itself in is that it is an evironment that maintains a very professional, clean, and mature atmosphere - while providing some of the most insightful and in-depth skiing discussions that can be found on the internet. It is not a place where one-mindedness and absolutes are appreciated. Those who have been here since the beginning will "fight" a newcomer who threatens to take away or erode the community that has developed here. The forum is ours - meaning that it is everyone who posts here that makes Epicski what it is - not the few pilot members.

I have read most of the threads that are being referred to in this discussion. I felt they were a very one-sided rant based on a lot of absolutes that are not necessarily true. Our sport has many sides to it, which is what makes skiing so unique, and allows it to be a sport that can be enjoyed by nearly anyone. EpicSki is a wonderful representation of some of the most passionate skiers from around the world. We are however, not a fair representation of the industry... While I am sure that many agree with the points that MBS made I think it is fair to say that they were poorly broadcasted to our community.

Skiing has evolved into a huge industry, with offerings that will satisfy nearly everyone. Parts of the industry exist that everyone may not agree with, but that does not make them wrong. At this site, we have people from both ends of the skiing spectrum, and as respectful members we should be able to discuss (and listen to) both ends and everything in between in a civil manner. Some of us love huge Vail-type resorts... some of us would rather spend our time at the A-basins and Jay Peaks of the industry. Sure things have become commercial, but the root of skiing in my mind (and I'm sure most of us here) is still a passion for the sport we love. I don't think it matters what avenue of skiing we decide to become passionate about. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion, and at the same time we are all entitled to respect each other and be respected. This is why EpicSki is unique, and nearly all of the members here should be working to preserve this, whether you have been here 5 years or 5 minutes does not matter.

Later

GREG
post #48 of 65
Well, I certainly agree with that!
post #49 of 65
This board is WAY more tame than most, I'm really surprised this topic popped up.
post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
Something that EpicSki prides itself in is that it is an evironment that maintains a very professional, clean, and mature atmosphere - while providing some of the most insightful and in-depth skiing discussions that can be found on the internet. It is not a place where one-mindedness and absolutes are appreciated. Those who have been here since the beginning will "fight" a newcomer who threatens to take away or erode the community that has developed here. The forum is ours - meaning that it is everyone who posts here that makes Epicski what it is - not the few pilot members.

I have read most of the threads that are being referred to in this discussion. I felt they were a very one-sided rant based on a lot of absolutes that are not necessarily true. Our sport has many sides to it, which is what makes skiing so unique, and allows it to be a sport that can be enjoyed by nearly anyone. EpicSki is a wonderful representation of some of the most passionate skiers from around the world. We are however, not a fair representation of the industry... While I am sure that many agree with the points that MBS made I think it is fair to say that they were poorly broadcasted to our community.

Skiing has evolved into a huge industry, with offerings that will satisfy nearly everyone. Parts of the industry exist that everyone may not agree with, but that does not make them wrong. At this site, we have people from both ends of the skiing spectrum, and as respectful members we should be able to discuss (and listen to) both ends and everything in between in a civil manner. Some of us love huge Vail-type resorts... some of us would rather spend our time at the A-basins and Jay Peaks of the industry. Sure things have become commercial, but the root of skiing in my mind (and I'm sure most of us here) is still a passion for the sport we love. I don't think it matters what avenue of skiing we decide to become passionate about. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion, and at the same time we are all entitled to respect each other and be respected. This is why EpicSki is unique, and nearly all of the members here should be working to preserve this, whether you have been here 5 years or 5 minutes does not matter.

Later

GREG
Good post, Greg.

Skiing, like most of the better things in life has no ONE right way of "doing it"

If you notice, I tend to stay out of threads like these, grey threads that some (instigators) try to make back or white.
post #51 of 65
Greg, I concur a very good post. I would just add one other aspect. When someone (especially a new poster) posts something that is interpreted as narrow, absolute, single-minded, etc. there is often a very strong (to say the least) negative reaction from members. In my opinion we could do a lot better in calmly explaining a "sense of Epic" to these people so instead of a battle we can have more meaningful discussion. I expect that someone like MBS has a lot to offer to our community. I would just like to see us better respond to work with new (and old) posters to develop a respectful basis for discussion, agreement, and disagreement, vs. creating a battleground of confrontation.
post #52 of 65
I agree with Greg. And Si, your vision of this is very cool. And more welcoming.
post #53 of 65
"Better to find humility before it goes out looking for you."
post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrstrat57
I unfortunately am somewhat in agreement with this statement. I nearly went back to lurking a few months ago but stuck it out. The name calling and mean spirited postings the past month or so trouble me. Perhaps it is a sign of the troubled times we live in and the recent difficult events. Regardless, the once clear line between bears and maggots is blurring. What is a huge concern is some very respected members/ ski professionals appear to participate in it now regularly. The whole TCS response is out of control and the MBS scenario was bad, tho appears to be getting better. Ski pros even commenting on TCS is like me, a 4.0 tennis player commenting on a 2.5 wed night league doubles match, they just don't hit the ball like I do, it isn't relevant to comment on. Makes no sense. Zero.

Good guys like HB and CR attacked in multiple threads for trying to help others with equipment questions and give "boots on the snow" advice?

Sucks.

I am gonna tough it out and see what happens when the snow flies. Epicski has much to offer. It is a great bold experiment. But the meanness....I can't afford the energy drain. I have suggested in 2 threads previously that IMO the simple answer for all is before you flame walk away. That will end most of it....but who am I to say? Maybe some of these trolls are so mean 10 minutes away will only give them time to dream up more rotten crap to say. I love the sport of skiing and I have lived it nearly all my life, and like to think I know just a wee bit about it - but I'm smart enuff to know epic won't miss me for a minute. I've met some fabulous folks here tho, some I actually hope to make turns with....soooo

.....I'm gonna ramp up the ignore list and see what happens, many say it is just a phase, we'll see....for now.

The only reason I comment is because I care.......and I am probably way outta line here anyway.....IMHO we all fix it or it's going down....or turning into maggotville.....

As I await getting flamed....

might be time for a bit of lurking......

Like Alice

or

Seven

my .02, nothing more
Ditto for me. This place has lost it's feeling of being any kind of a home to me. Still good info, but too much meanness, and defense of the meanness as being "colorful."
post #55 of 65
Thread Starter 

.02

I must say that human touch like the Bears Gatherings are perhaps the best way I've seen to ground the electricity that a forum sometimes can't contain.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that MBS would have never received the whipping he did had a chair, some turns and a beer been shared.
post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven
I must say that human touch like the Bears Gatherings are perhaps the best way I've seen to ground the electricity that a forum sometimes can't contain.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that MBS would have never received the whipping he did had a chair, some turns and a beer been shared.

I'll drink to that. Cheers!
post #57 of 65
Good stuff Greg & Si! I would like to add the defacto "golden rule" of the few boards I go to and that's to not reply when the bait is set. I myself am occassionaly guilty of not following it, but it generally does work. I'm on a photography board on occasion where many of the pictures are awful, but the typical response is not "that picture sucks" but more along the lines of (try this resolution or use less backlight etc...). This seems to me to point the poster in the right direction without degrading the contribution of a person that may be proud of their bad photography. BTW I'm absolutely one of those bad photographers who through the help of that board has gone from REALLY BAD to positively MEDIOCRE
post #58 of 65

contribution versus "persona"

In reality there are two distinct arenas in Epic; the socio/political of the Lounge and the ski .... pure ski side!

There will always be a bit of fur flying in the lounge and the old adage regarding "never discuss sex, religion and politics" at the dinner table fits, when Bears "retire" to the lounge and the room fills with cigar smoke the gloves come off.

The ski side of the coin: No matter who you are in the lounge, I will ultimately judge you by what you contribute to the ski community at large. How much energy and time you spend with a "noobie or gaper" to try to give them a "good steer" and help them along the way impresses me. Some posters will often provide the link to a subject that has been covered and 97% of the time it is done in a constructive way.

Helluva/Greg ..... one of the finest examples on the forum. I watched how he went to great legnths to steer a "noobie racer" regarding his endeavors in selecting a college. Greg rarely (and wisely), does not get involved in "Lounge" matters, but if he did and we had a row, I'd always hold him in the highest esteem because of his time and efforts to skiing "at large".

SCSA aka PMTS Wacko ...... waltzed into the bar and pissed in our shoes and expected us to buy him a beer while pushing Harbs way of skiing. I guess word got out to Harold, that the "negative sell/boiler room" tactics were causing more harm than good and I have a feeling that Wacko had his leash pulled in a few links and his muzzle tightened. IMHO, Wacko contributed nothing ..... "0" ..... zip ..... zilch .... cipher!

If we are here as a community to promote skiing and to share our knowledge through pedagogical/academic discussion among peers (Nolo for one), or to help a guy or gal find a good place to buy that first pair of skis and cut through some of the sales hype (some of us most of the time), we will continue to be a community.

To those who "lurk" and "snipe" and never lend a hand ..... SCREW OFF!

My thanks to the original "Beavers" who spent time with me .... Pierre eh, Oboe, Lars, Bandit, AC ...... what a list .... Ott, for those stories of Siggie that brought tears to my eyes. Too many to remember (about two hundred and eighty) since my first visit here ......... THANK YOU.
post #59 of 65
Give MBS some credit. A lesser man would not have recanted so fast. Also credit everyone who pointed out his mistake. I would say it all worked out in the end because it is a tough, but fair room.
post #60 of 65

No not back (But who cares)

(Breaking my own rule)
I have spent many hours lucking the past couple of months.
Biggest dissapointment here. People typing unrepairable comments too people they have not met! (IN REAL LIFE) but would probably love to ski with?
This is not an anounimous chat room!! We all have something in common here, and will most likly Meet and ske together?

No favorites here I think I have seen the best and posibly the worst in just about everyone here. (My self included)

BTW I now have 6 Ski days under my belt for the 2005 / 2006 season, and have been converted to a Fat Ski Freak!! Old School + Fat Skis with 28M Radius = Fun!! With a CAPTIOL F

Me sking away @ Portillo
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