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post #151 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw
If you want to discuss the notion of right and wrong stance but not equipment design then you're on your own. They're inextricable.
They are two completly different things. Do you have any experiance in equipment design????????
post #152 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckingfellers
Snowmaking is most definately needed in the east. Hell, I remember a winter or two when man made was pretty much all their was at certain eastern areas! I really dont give a shit about the prices of a lift ticket. They rape ya with everything else at most VT resorts. I just want it to puke the white shit so I can fing ski.

Bonni aren't you forking out dough for books, equipment, and "your time is money" to be a ski patrol? But your worried about heating oil. Skiing always came first for me to:
You are still missing the point. Ski areas should learn to get past marketing how many acres of snow making they have or how many high speed quads they have or how many square feet there pedestrian village occupys, and get back to the real reason that people go skiing. To have fun, and to enjoy the outdoors. If you are more concerned with how many stars the on mountina resturant has than the average snow fall of a ski area, YOU ARE SKIING FOR THE WRONG REASON.
post #153 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredat40

I don't think anyone will tell you that the quality of instruction is where we would like it to be. Lurk on this board (and I mean quit posting about things that you don't understand and listen once in awhile) and you will see the top professionals trying to look at the problems from all angles and seek solutions. You have zero experience with PSIA and I suspect you have spent little time trying to teach people with no natural talent how to have fun on skis. I don't object to criticism of PSIA, but you have no credibility on the subject and your criticisms are ridiculously misdirected. And before you tell me that you have seen the results of the PSIA 'method' and that is experience enough, go back and read the part about PSIA doesn't give lessons.
Humm, so if it is agrred that there is problems with the quality of instruction that the PSIA offers, than why is it so hard for you to listen to, and possibley consider some of the problems that I have pointed out with it. If you want to talk about credibility, I can assure you that I have way more of it than you ever will on the subject of skiing, and what it takes to be a good skier. I make my living by determining what skiers have the skills, and the ability to ski well, and look good. You cant be a ski model unless you are skiing at a level that is truly on par with the best athletes in the world. Working some job in the city, so that you can retire at 40 doesnt exactly give you a lot of experiance on snow.
post #154 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan
Of course not. I mean, nobody could make a place where they have all expert terrain and no grooming. That Silverton thingy is just a fluke. And of course a place where they don't groom would never fly. MRG, Baker, those kind of places are destined for failure. The owners shoud just bulldoze the ratty old daylodges and put up condos and snowguns. In fact, they should just sell out to Vail or ASC who can then market only to the mainstream skier population.
Sure there is a market for that experience, and the number of ski areas opperating in that fashion is reflecting that demand. If that's your cup of tea, by all means drink it. Just don't bitch to me that all the other skiers in the world should think they are paradise so you can have one closer to your door.

MBS, You need to get a grip. I'm not the problem here bucko, but your attitude sure as hell is. Before you drum up a self-absorbed opinion and run around spewing your invective laced notions of happiness at the rest of the world for ruining your little playground, perhaps you take a step back and realize what makes your little wonderland possible.

What you are doing is taking a jaded myopic view point and then painting your wide stroked brush across everything you see. "The majority of skiers forgot why they got into this sport." What a crock of crap. Why don't you just come right out and say what your really feel instead of trying to lay a nice little sugarcoat on it so you can drum up some support for your fantasy.

You are pissed because you feel like skiing should be some grassroots locals game that need be held on a pedestal for only those exhaulted enough in the ways of the true ski gods to be allowed a spot at the powder trough. New skiers should be required to take a test to insure they will never sell out. Here's a pro-tip sport. Just because the world doesn't work the way you think it should doesn't mean eveyone else is broken.

The SUV hauling tourist mom and pop and their 15 kids gets out in the parking lot of my local ski area I don't have some trumped up notion that they are harming skiing. God forbid megaconglomerate corp provide them exactly what they want. I hope they can get a cheeseburger delivered to them by a flying monkey on the slopes if they have the money to pay for it. They can vacation to their mountain circus and thats just fine with me.

You know why? Because I'm getting off on just existing on the mountain. None of that party is in my view or care. I'm just thankful for the chance to be standing in my skis looking down whatever I am about to try and ski without having to pay the entire capital cost of the lift it took to get me there. The more people on it, the less it's going to cost me, and the more I get to do it.

Bitching and moaning about the people that provide the rest of us the convience of most lift served terrain is an ignorant, faux entitled, egotistical ranting. Nobody is forcing you to join them, and you can find others that are doing the same.

God bless the skiers that travel every year to Mt. Bohemia for just the kind of place you are talking about. I'm happy there are enough of them to keep the lights on and the lifts running. Just because they exist doesn't make all the other ski areas evil.

What's even worse is this little rant comes from someone who makes a living taking pictures of "ski models" so that the photos can be used to feed the desire of the exact same people he is ranting about. Yet, somehow, I am the problem. Sure.
post #155 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
YOU ARE SKIING FOR THE WRONG REASON.
As sole arbiter of the correct reasons to enjoy skiing, could you see fit to having a manual printed and distributed for us so that we can verify our reasons are on the mtbakerskier approved list. I'd hate to think someone was having a good time without your permission.

The image of a freeskier, but I fear the soul is missing.
post #156 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl
Sure there is a market for that experience, and the number of ski areas opperating in that fashion is reflecting that demand. If that's your cup of tea, by all means drink it. Just don't bitch to me that all the other skiers in the world should think they are paradise so you can have one closer to your door.

MBS, You need to get a grip. I'm not the problem here bucko, but your attitude sure as hell is. Before you drum up a self-absorbed opinion and run around spewing your invective laced notions of happiness at the rest of the world for ruining your little playground, perhaps you take a step back and realize what makes your little wonderland possible.

What you are doing is taking a jaded myopic view point and then painting your wide stroked brush across everything you see. "The majority of skiers forgot why they got into this sport." What a crock of crap. Why don't you just come right out and say what your really feel instead of trying to lay a nice little sugarcoat on it so you can drum up some support for your fantasy.

You are pissed because you feel like skiing should be some grassroots locals game that need be held on a pedestal for only those exhaulted enough in the ways of the true ski gods to be allowed a spot at the powder trough. New skiers should be required to take a test to insure they will never sell out. Here's a pro-tip sport. Just because the world doesn't work the way you think it should doesn't mean eveyone else is broken.

The SUV hauling tourist mom and pop and their 15 kids gets out in the parking lot of my local ski area I don't have some trumped up notion that they are harming skiing. God forbid megaconglomerate corp provide them exactly what they want. I hope they can get a cheeseburger delivered to them by a flying monkey on the slopes if they have the money to pay for it. They can vacation to their mountain circus and thats just fine with me.

You know why? Because I'm getting off on just existing on the mountain. None of that party is in my view or care. I'm just thankful for the chance to be standing in my skis looking down whatever I am about to try and ski without having to pay the entire capital cost of the lift it took to get me there. The more people on it, the less it's going to cost me, and the more I get to do it.

Bitching and moaning about the people that provide the rest of us the convience of most lift served terrain is an ignorant, faux entitled, egotistical ranting. Nobody is forcing you to join them, and you can find others that are doing the same.

God bless the skiers that travel every year to Mt. Bohemia for just the kind of place you are talking about. I'm happy there are enough of them to keep the lights on and the lifts running. Just because they exist doesn't make all the other ski areas evil.

What's even worse is this little rant comes from someone who makes a living taking pictures of "ski models" so that the photos can be used to feed the desire of the exact same people he is ranting about. Yet, somehow, I am the problem. Sure.
Try reading this thread a few times, I have not once stated that skiing should only fit what i think or feal is best, shit that would be prety god damn boring now wouldnt it. Im just asking you to stop and think for a minute before you bitch about the lack of grooming, or the lack of snowmaking or decide on your next ski vacation bassed upon on mtn resturants etc, and think about what really matters and what is really important to a good ski trip. I am however bitching about the current trednd to water down the mountians and making a ski trip more like another day in the mall. Im notsayingthat its wrong for a family to go on a ski vacation to a ski resort driving there suv, and dinging at four star resturants everynight. However I am saying that it is VERY WRONG for people that ski 5~10 days a year to think that they deserve a say in how the sport of skiing should be.

You know it just goes to show how god damn ignorant you are to think that the ictures that I shoot feed the attitudes of some that think everything should be groomed, and that snowmaking, highspeed lifts, and on mountina resturnats are needed for a great ski experiance. Sure I shoot a lot of ski picks, but you know what I shoot htem to get people to go skiing and to have fun in the mountians. Why do you think that my images very rarely are published in certian mags. Why do you think I mostly submit to the more "core" publications. It defintaly isnt for the money. If you look at my photos and still think that they help to drive the lets groom it all and build a strip mall at the base or the resort mentality, than your right I have done a shitty job as a photographer to convey threw my work what skiing is about, and the fealings, that are derived from spending time enjoying the mountians they way nature created them to be.
post #157 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl
As sole arbiter of the correct reasons to enjoy skiing, could you see fit to having a manual printed and distributed for us so that we can verify our reasons are on the mtbakerskier approved list. I'd hate to think someone was having a good time without your permission.

The image of a freeskier, but I fear the soul is missing.
Once again, I have never ever stated that my view of skiing is the only corect view, however I will stand by the fact that it is WRONG to think that you have to have snowmaking, grooming etc. Sure these things can make it more enjoyable but for some too much of it isnt. The only manual on skiing that I know of that is currently floating around is the publications that the PSIA distributes to its members. So open your FU(KING mind just as I have neither your vision of skiing nor mine is correct, just try to think about the others side for a minute, and consider what they are saying, and next time when you go to a resort instead of bitching that there isnt good enough food in the laodge, or there isnt enough groomed runs, realise that some skiers like it just the way it is, and dont want it to be uber polished.
post #158 of 278
Jesus MBS, you can't see the forest through the trees. Seriously.

How many of us can say... we all know that the only thing you need to have fun skiing is snow, planks, and a hill. Yeah, we get it, we all know that. That's why we are on epicski. We are that crowd.

People who only ski 5-10 days a year get all the right in the world to dictate what they want from the part of the sport that provides for people skiing 5-10 days a year. This is the crowd that wants the nice ammenities to enjoy their vacation with. This is the part of each of us that is getting irritated by the skiing facist point of view.

You get every right to the part of the sport that skis 200 days a year and skis down the Chugach range. Thats the side of us that agrees with you that it would make us all happy if more people understood the essence of why we ski.

It's just arrogrance for either one of the groups to tell the other that they are skiing for the wrong reason. That there are more in the 5-10 day group than the 200+ day group is a simple fact of life. No use in pissing into the wind on that one. If that isn't your scene, don't join it. You have the option.
post #159 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
next time when you go to a resort instead of bitching that there isnt good enough food in the laodge, or there isnt enough groomed runs, realise that some skiers like it just the way it is, and dont want it to be uber polished.
For the record, I have never bitched once about any of that. I'm right with you on not wanting the entire mountain to be groomed into a carpet.

However, I am also one of those people that realizes that somebody has to pay for the electricity to run those lifts, and that it is barking up the wrong tree to be bitching about the mainstream vacationing skiers that make that possible for me.

Where we aren't seeing eye to eye is that for me, skiing the mountain with my companions is all I care about. What happens to exist in the parking lot, or why the other people showed up, is largely irrelevant for me. You seem to care a great deal about the image of the resort introuding upon the experience.

Do you really feel like the once a year skier is endangering the heart and soul of skiing to the point where you won't be able to enjoy it anymore by trying to get nicer hotels and more runs? Does joe wanker on his expensive gear with his expensive clothes bumbling down the blue run really bother you that much? Are any of these tourist troublemakers anywhere near the spots you actually want to ski? Maybe I'm just not as affected by it so I don't understand. I've never had a bad day on skis...
post #160 of 278
I'm still astonished that people still use oil for heating! I remember that when I was a little kid, but it disappeared as oil got more expensive.

As for MBS, I have yet to read anything he says that is valid or worth the struggle to read, in fact I've given up. You live in a country where the dollar is king, and this is the result. Luckily in the US, choice is also king. You have lots of choice. Choose to ski at one of the many resorts that haven't gone turned into glitzy vehicles to sell real estate.
post #161 of 278
Maybe taichiskiing and mbs are the SAME person!!!!!
post #162 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
Maybe taichiskiing and mbs are the SAME person!!!!!
MBS and I may have an argument with each other, but implying that someone has such poor control over their skis that they are unable to make a complete turn without going into a flatspin is just uncalled for!
post #163 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl
MBS and I may have an argument with each other, but implying that someone has such poor control over their skis that they are unable to make a complete turn without going into a flatspin is just uncalled for!
They are equally thick headed about their viewpoints and we have no idea how mbs skis, do we?

Also, it was a joke.
post #164 of 278
I think Onyxjl was also making a joke...
post #165 of 278
MBS,

So now you say, "Humm, so if it is agrred that there is problems with the quality of instruction that the PSIA offers..."

This is beginning to sound like semantics, but we cannot agree on that point since PSIA does not offer instruction. No one is doubting your ski cred, but you continue to demonstrate that you do not understand what PSIA is all about. PSIA provides certification of instructors but does not dictate lesson content. Your complaint is with instructors, not PSIA. I know many of the instructors here have constructive criticisms of PSIA, but yours is not about PSIA. You assume you know where the problem lies and you have missed the mark. Purchase and read the PSIA manuals. Much of it is consistent with what you think a good lesson should entail. Some of it was written, edited, and modified by members here. They are smarter than you think.

As far as the merit of your criticism of the quality of instruction, in general, I am tempted to point you to the archives for an education on the depth to which the issues (and there are hundreds of them) get discussed, but that would be unfriendly. Your complaint is uselessly generalized at best and offered nothing new to this community. By all means, hop in on detail discussions on technique and instruction. For example, you might have a point that style is being missed, but I challenge you to help people get to the bottom of what is it, why is it being missed, how do you teach it, etc. There is more being done to fix the problems here than anywhere. This is the place the pros get together to talk. I, for one, am grateful for the opportunity to listen in on the conversation.

You have arrived here and put forth a bunch of complaints thinking you are sparking thought and discussion while you are mostly distracting people from the constructive discussions that always take place here (not to mention just plain disrupting a few, as well). I cringe at the implication of your language that you think all instructors are bad. That would be like someone saying all snowboarders are bad, something I have never heard anyone say in a serious way around here. I will reiterate that you have some credibility on the subject of great skiing, but you have offered nothing in your background that leads me to believe you have knowledge about teaching beginners with no natural talent, a totally different ballgame, IMO. Use your strengths, recognize your weaknesses. Offer solutions, not problems.
post #166 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
They are equally thick headed about their viewpoints and we have no idea how mbs skis, do we?

Also, it was a joke.
Though MBS is a bit obtuse, he has capitulated at times (though grudgingly) to what others have said, TCS however, is from some other planet where reason and physics are considered heretical. MBS insults people with passion, as if they are another person annoying him, whereas TCS insults dispassionately as if others are gnats interupting his reveric daydreams of being a skiing guru. Where MBS holds to emotionally impelled generalizations based on real life experiences that others can relate to, TCS has a very specific fantasy version of reality that doesn't quite connect to the world anyone else lives in.
post #167 of 278
True, plus they use different fonts and although TCS's English is abysmal, it's MBS's spelling that is abysmal.

But, there was that movie, The Seven Faces of Eve.....
post #168 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
However I am saying that it is VERY WRONG for people that ski 5~10 days a year to think that they deserve a say in how the sport of skiing should be.
Here-Here.

The lifts turned for 30 years before snowmaking, condos or the offensive elite mentality of modern skiing. I don't have a problem with people learning to ski. We were all beginners and we have all been that 5~10 day skier.

The problem is that resorts cater to this market and the rich and totally ignore the old farmer guy in the Carharts, the hippie with the pinners and the leather boots, the struggling student, the poor and even the pass holders.

I'm a pass holder and I can't afford for my family to stay at the resort. We've been priced out because of the focus on one section of the market. Resorts need to focus more on the skiing and less on 5 course meals, feather beds, ski valets and kissing peoples ass that don't deserve it.

MBS, you keep it real man. Sleepwalkers can never see what you and I understand. I wish you dark, stormy, chest deep powder days my friend.

Stay safe out there.

Peace
post #169 of 278
offpiste & MBS, while I accept your argument, I'd point out that if it wasn't for the people who ski 5-10 days a year, there wouldn't be Winter Sports as we know it today.
The reason there are Winter Olympics is not because of people who live in resorts. It's because of people who went there on vacation for a few days. Thanks to them, you now can buy a season pass.
post #170 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by offpiste
The problem is that resorts cater to this market and the rich and totally ignore the old farmer guy in the Carharts, the hippie with the pinners and the leather boots, the struggling student, the poor and even the pass holders.

Well, come to Europe then. Forget your luxuries, and get a passport to where skiing came from.
post #171 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat
offpiste & MBS, while I accept your argument, I'd point out that if it wasn't for the people who ski 5-10 days a year, there wouldn't be Winter Sports as we know it today.
The reason there are Winter Olympics is not because of people who live in resorts. It's because of people who went there on vacation for a few days. Thanks to them, you now can buy a season pass.
Once again, there is nothing wrong with the guy that tkaes his family skiing 5~10 days a year. However there is something very wrong if he think that the sport should be catered to him and if he thinks that he deserves to have his voice heard. Why should more and more places water the sport down just because some people are to damn lazy to make an effort to get good enough to enjoy all aspects of the sport. I am not saying that grooming etc is wrong. Buy I am saying it is wrong for someone that skis only a few times a year to expect that every thing on the mountian should be groomed. It's just like its wrong for that same guy that only skis a fw times a year to think that certian terrain should be closed just because he thinks its crazy to ski it.
post #172 of 278
Thread Starter 
Retiredat40. Since the PSIA is repsoncible for the certification of instructors, then why is it that there are so many shity instructors out there. This just goes to show that the PSIA cant even acomplish the one thing that it was originally created to do: Standardise the quality level of ski instruction. I have not once stated that all instructors are bad, however there is an overwheliming number of bad ones, and the PSIA is completly at fault for this.
post #173 of 278
Its totally wrong that a insignificant percentage of the skiing public should have any say at all in how the skiing industry is opperated. They should be allowed to ski if they want but they should learn that it is wrong, wrong, wrong for them to think that they have any right to express their opinion about the sport. What could be more wrong,wrong wrong, WRONG than these more than 100 days a year skiers thinking that they know anything about what the sport of skiing is about.

yd
post #174 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat
Well, come to Europe then. Forget your luxuries, and get a passport to where skiing came from.
As a matter of fact. I've been to Europe twice in the summers but my next trip will be to ski. Any recommendations? I like hostel type accomodations, cheap food, real people, real culture, big terrain and deep powder. I've been told Czech Republic could be an option. What do you think?
post #175 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
Once again, there is nothing wrong with the guy that tkaes his family skiing 5~10 days a year. However there is something very wrong if he think that the sport should be catered to him and if he thinks that he deserves to have his voice heard.
Why should he not have his voice heard?

How many days a year does he need to ski before he is allowed to be heard? Is it 15 or 20, or 40...? (or is it only season pass holders who are allowed to make comment?)
post #176 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat
Why should he not have his voice heard?

How many days a year does he need to ski before he is allowed to be heard? Is it 15 or 20, or 40...? (or is it only season pass holders who are allowed to make comment?)
The point is not how many days a year they ski, but how much they really care about the sport and paticipate in it. If you dont actively paticipate you shouldnt have the right to complain. Its just like voting, if you dont vote, than you really dont have the right to bitch about the politicians or the laws.
post #177 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by offpiste
As a matter of fact. I've been to Europe twice in the summers but my next trip will be to ski. Any recommendations? I like hostel type accomodations, cheap food, real people, real culture, big terrain and deep powder. I've been told Czech Republic could be an option. What do you think?
Chamonix, La Grave, La Rossiere, or better yet, stay in Bourg Saint Maurice, and travel to the various ski areas around there.
Alternatively, go to Wengen or Murren, and see where skiing as a leisure activity started out.
post #178 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
The point is not how many days a year they ski, but how much they really care about the sport and paticipate in it. If you dont actively paticipate you shouldnt have the right to complain. Its just like voting, if you dont vote, than you really dont have the right to bitch about the politicians or the laws.
So, at what point do you say someone "actively participates" in the sport?
i.e. WHEN does someone have the right to vote?
post #179 of 278
The blatant commercialism of porn is killing the soul of wanking.
post #180 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
Retiredat40. Since the PSIA is repsoncible for the certification of instructors, then why is it that there are so many shity instructors out there. This just goes to show that the PSIA cant even acomplish the one thing that it was originally created to do: Standardise the quality level of ski instruction. I have not once stated that all instructors are bad, however there is an overwheliming number of bad ones, and the PSIA is completly at fault for this.
time to call BS
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