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Looking for a mountain. - Page 3

post #61 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
Based on the entry, Cobetts is a 200% slope (90 degrees, vertical). The run out is considerably less, say in the 100 - 150% range.

Powdr

EDIT:

Here is the entry:

http://homepage.mac.com/mcwop/.Pictu...3/IMG_0136.jpg

Also, look at some of these other famous chutes to get an idea of what we are talking about. If you say you can ski all of these (in all honesty), then you have earned the right to say "ANY". I personally would probably balk on the first, second third ones, especially on tele gear.

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ht=corbett%27s
I think 90º would be %=infinity.
post #62 of 87
I'm not confused - at least not about how to measure slope Here's the snippet from Skiing I found & cited. If the real pitch in degrees is more like 30-ish, how is it possibly one of the steepest in the east? Given the write up, I would not expect the whole deal to be 50 degrees plus -- however, I'd imagine a pretty decent slice of trail at 40-45 degrees or better....

Quote:
Access: Timberline Quad
Vertical Drop: 1,050 feet
Max Reported Pitch: 52 degrees
Why It Rips: Standing at the top of White Nitro summons a primal chest-beating urge. That's because Nitro starts above tree line and provides unfettered views of what is, for the time being at least, your kingdom. Whether you retain ownership depends entirely on how cleanly you negotiate the run's 400-yard headwall and the narrow steeps below.
post #63 of 87
Any of you Jackson skiers out there know a guy named Putt (sorry I don't know his last name)? I think he's an instructor out there and he's the son-in-law of a guy I ski with here in the East.
post #64 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift
I'm not confused - at least not about how to measure slope Here's the snippet from Skiing I found & cited. If the real pitch in degrees is more like 30-ish, how is it possibly one of the steepest in the east? Given the write up, I would not expect the whole deal to be 50 degrees plus -- however, I'd imagine a pretty decent slice of trail at 40-45 degrees or better....
At its steepest point(skiers left, right before the spillway) it is probably 40 degrees but it is only 100 ft. But there is nothing else inbounds in the east that is really that steep. The face chutes at jay are defiantly steeper but it is not a trail, so i guess it doesnt count. Pretty much in the east you cant ski something over 40 degrees because of the lack of snow(obviously there are a few things over 40 that are skiable, but im talking trails, not gullys/chutes/bowls)
post #65 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
I think 90º would be %=infinity.
Ah the stuff of first term calculus. The percentage increases geometrically, approaching infinity, until at 90 degrees the slope actually becomes zero, because regardless of the rise, if the run is zero there technically ISN'T any "slope".

Now quit making me think of math!
post #66 of 87
After looking at a topo and doing some math, i figured out all of white nitro(top of summit cut across to net) is about 28 degrees.
post #67 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift
I'm not confused - at least not about how to measure slope Here's the snippet from Skiing I found & cited. If the real pitch in degrees is more like 30-ish, how is it possibly one of the steepest in the east? Given the write up, I would not expect the whole deal to be 50 degrees plus -- however, I'd imagine a pretty decent slice of trail at 40-45 degrees or better....
Never one to back away from calculations/data check (as you all know already, I ran the numbers on White Heat based on Google Earth data. Here it is:

The whole run is measured as 2,975' and has a rise of 1164'. The sin(inverse) of the opposite over the hypotenus results in 23 degrees.



If you zoom in on the steepest section, you get 785' length and 383' rise, giving a 29 degree slope.



Sorry, not anywhere near 50 degrees

Powdr
post #68 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Now quit making me think of math!
Don't try to do the figures in your head, just ski the infinite void.
post #69 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
Never one to back away from calculations/data check (as you all know already, I ran the numbers on White Heat based on Google Earth data... Sorry, not anywhere near 50 degrees

Powdr
Skis steeper than infinity when it's really icy. It's the equivalent of overhanging terrain out west. OK?
post #70 of 87
that google earth progam measuring distane is awsome, and really accurate, white heat top to bottom is 22 degrees
post #71 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Skis steeper than infinity when it's really icy. It's the equivalent of overhanging terrain out west. OK?
That's all fine and all, but don't over quote steepness when it's simply not the case.
post #72 of 87
Powdr: I was looking at your picture and it is not of Sugarloaf and White Nitro that others in this thread are talking about. You called it White Heat and that is definetly the name of the trail at Sunday River, a little place a couple hours south of Sugarloaf. But you are right 23 degrees does not sound so impressive for that trail (White Heat) which was/is billed as the steepest/widest/longest/lift served trail in the east, it supposedly is the only trail to fit all 4 of those parameters.
post #73 of 87
Who, me? The only number I mentioned is 90º. I hate those wack figures Sunday River throws out. I would never ski there.

Are those Baldy Chutes always open? Are all the extreme lines at Alta OB? I didn't see anything inbounds that was very crazy. Bob Peters and others are steering our young friend to Alta so he won't hurt himself? I think he should rack up in the Hostel at Teton Village and find his limit. If he has bagged all the yellow triangles by mid-week, he can hire a guide to show him the double yellows.
post #74 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbowler
Powdr: I was looking at your picture and it is not of Sugarloaf and White Nitro that others in this thread are talking about. You called it White Heat and that is definetly the name of the trail at Sunday River, a little place a couple hours south of Sugarloaf. But you are right 23 degrees does not sound so impressive for that trail (White Heat) which was/is billed as the steepest/widest/longest/lift served trail in the east, it supposedly is the only trail to fit all 4 of those parameters.
You are right. I was looking at White Heat. Sorry. Will do up White Nitro in a sec.

Powdr
post #75 of 87
This has morphed from a pretty simple question - a kid looking for a good place to take his fam and buds skiing out west to a world class pissing contest about I dunno what....and I am having fun reading it. skistarr90 I think I would listen to bob peters on that where to go issue.....I would also suggest a bit more humble approach works better with these bears...

Sadly for me I have never been out west, breaks my heart had my chances but other stuff always has and continues to get in the way....so I can't speak with any experience....but I was just wondering....

any of you big mountain west guys ever been skiing on castlerock? After 3 days of rain and a subsequent hard freeze....at 23 below zero....sure kept me on my toes....and thankful my 205 olin rts were freshly tuned, because there was no snow on that hill. The NHL got rid of the redline for the coming year, there weren't any lines on that rink and a pair of tacks would have been better than ski's that day.....Double black diamond? IMO it qualified. Sure scared the shxx outta me, but I stayed all day and that was a long time ago.....I can't ski that stuff anymore, I'm back on the bunny hill.

you guys rock on!
post #76 of 87
OK, White HEAT comes out very similar: 29 degrees.


post #77 of 87
Powdr, you must have something better to do with your time.

I thought you had put a self-imposed moratorium to your Utah chest-beating.
post #78 of 87
Self imposed? Maybe others wish I would, but I didn't say that. I do however, try to add a qualifier whenever I talk about Utah that I'm a homer.
post #79 of 87
There is a little hill in Pa called Denton which claims to have the steepest trail in the East:

"Avalanche
Expert
Steepest in the East! At 66 degrees, you can't find a more exciting run. Don't even think about it if you don't fit into the criteria warning sign at the top. "

www.skidenton.com
post #80 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
There is a little hill in Pa called Denton which claims to have the steepest trail in the East:

"Avalanche
Expert
Steepest in the East! At 66 degrees, you can't find a more exciting run. Don't even think about it if you don't fit into the criteria warning sign at the top. "

www.skidenton.com
:

I measured a 62 degree sidehill one time. If I ever get over being too lazy (and too chicken) to climb up it, I'm going to try to ski it. From the side, it looks impossible. Very puckerish runout, too.

That happens to be the steepest slope that actually had snow on it that I've ever seen (other than the underside of cornices). I would love to watch someone make turns on it.
post #81 of 87
I've enjoyed reading thru the comments. I know it's been beat to death, but this situation reminded me a lot of a cheesy movie that came out a no. of years ago called North Shore. In the movie, there is this Arizona teenager who is the surfing champ of the wave machine pool in his hometown. Anyway, he figures he can handle any waves including winter surf on the North Shore of Oahu and comes out for a visit. Naturally, in his first attempt he is pummeled and almost drowns. Unlike real life of course, w/in a few months, he's ready for the championship, but hey it's a movie. Not that I'm comparing the wave machine pool to Stowe, but the level of cockiness when you've never actually even seen the chutes at Snowbird, Jackson hole, etc. seemed similar.
post #82 of 87
Did you decide where you're going? Pray tell so we can get good seats to the show....!

Cheers!
post #83 of 87
Heh, I hope you go to Alta cuz' thats where I got my pass. I wanna watch as well.
post #84 of 87
I've been in a couple of these discussions before, so here goes.

The percent grade vs. angle of slope table is useful. There is little doubt in my mind that eastern areas use grade and try to pass it off as angle. Powdr's Google Earth illustrations show this. Of eastern marked trails, Paradise at MRG is the steepest sustained run at 33 degrees average for 800 vertical. When I was there it was 60 degree t-shirt weather, so it was just like skiing the top of Mammoth on Memorial Day.

Tuckerman's and the Presidentials have nearly all of the skiable eastern slopes over 35 degrees. I'm surprised no one has asked Starr90 if he's been there. If he's comfortable skiing Left Gully, Headwall etc. he'll do fine in similar alpine cirques in the West.

My observation is that expert eastern skiers who can ski their off-piste trees and bulletproof snow well can translate their skills to steeper western slopes in a fairly short period of time. Also, my 17-year-old Extremely Canadian classmate from Ohio had a very fast learning curve on steeps and powder under their tutelage.

I agree with several of the other responses. Alta/Bird, starting with a level 9 class at either is a good way to start. I would save the "ski anything" comments until I had seen more varied terrain. Even though I've skied 100 areas in North America, I'm still reticent about making generalizations after some of the stuff I saw at Chamonix and Las Lenas.

If Starr90 is looking for a "proving ground," Squaw Valley is another area worthy of consideration.
post #85 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker
My observation is that expert eastern skiers who can ski their off-piste trees and bulletproof snow well can translate their skills to steeper western slopes in a fairly short period of time. Also, my 17-year-old Extremely Canadian classmate from Ohio had a very fast learning curve on steeps and powder under their tutelage.
I don't think it's as quick as you think. Maybe, possibly, by the end of a long season - 100 days or so. There's so many variable types of conditions that don't translate well - baked crud with ice chunks. Put that on a steep slope and things go to hell fast. Similarly, off-piste trees are kind of a niche thing and I don't think that really helps. Maybe for chutes, but I'm not sure it's the same. With a big mountain experience where you have to drop 2500' with no trees, and you do that over and over and over all day, that's a completely different kind of skiing / skill set. Try doing laps at Jackson all day on the tram (assuming you don't have to wait in line at all.)

Of course, areas ski different than each other. I think an eastern skier would have a much easier time at Crested Butte than JH. There might be similar steepness in areas, but the terrain at CB more closely matches eastern terrain.
post #86 of 87
I think it depends on the athleticism and ability of the skier. I doubt it would take a strong Eastern skier (i.e. racing background, backcountry experience on the likes of Mansfield, Tuckerman's) anywhere near that long to adjust. A lesser skier may take a lot longer.

Skiing tight lines through trees translates very well to chutes. One of the major differences between the Eastern and Western resorts is the need for greater safety awareness. There are a lot more ways to become seriously injured or worse out West since the exposures are bigger and the avalanche danger is higher. Bad things can happen if one jumps off a cornice into a long, steep rock-lined chute under the wrong snow conditions. Proper training on subject matters such as self-arrest techniques and mountain safety is well advised for skiers wishing to explore some of the West's most challenging terrain for the first time. I highly recommend hiring a guide and/or taking one of the advanced programs offered by several of the resorts (i.e. Jackson, Whistler, Snowbird). A guide will be able to not only safely match a skier with the most suitable terrain at the mountain, but also expose a skier to a resort's terrain that a new skier would be unlikely to find on his/her own. It's well worth the money, if only for a day or two.
post #87 of 87
Both Whistler/Blackcomb terrain and the Extremely Canadian 2-day clinic there would be excellent choices for SkiStarr90. Even if he's as good as he says, EC will find terrain/conditions that will push his limits and teach him more expert techniques and strategies. My 20-year-old son Adam, who has been skiing steep western mountains since age 7 and is about 90th percentile in ski ability for EC customers (I'm below average), was very enthusiastic about EC's guiding at both Whistler and Las Lenas.
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