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06 Expert boot advice by Jeff Bergeron/ Boot Fixation - Page 2  

post #31 of 543
Hi Jeff, need some boot advice,I'v been skiing with lange ground zeros for the past 8 or 9 seasons and there starting to wear inside.I absolutley love these boots and have not had any problems except what I stated.I'm 5'9" about 165-170(weight varies),I ski on dynastar skicross 9,I'm an east coast skierand at the avanced level.1)What lange boot out now is comprable to the ground zero?
2)Are heat molded liners better than non moldable liners,would you recommend them?
3)Is there a boot out now that you would fit me into according to my info?
4)Whats the most important thing you tell someone when looking to get boots fitted?
post #32 of 543
Jeff,

A very helpful service you are offering.

BACKGROUND - I am 6'2'' and 170lbs. I am 25 and have skied an average of 20-30 days a year for almost 20 years. I love skiing anything, but favorites are the bumps, jumps (a new phase in my skiing career) and powder (powder, if its there, always wins!). I am strong technically and ski fairly agggressively. I have very narrow, shallow feet.

1) I currently have a Comformable foam injected Lange Banshee Pro, which I bought about three years ago. The problem is that I have lost about 40lbs since I bought these and tend to be skiing a lot more bumps, and feel these are just too stiff for me. I am therefore looking forsomething which will satisfy my performance requirements, while being a bit softer for the sort of skiing and weight I am. I am very particular about having a good fit and so assume that foam injection with footbed will be essential again. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your advise.

Mike
post #33 of 543
Jeff,

Thanks for offering up your services again this year!

Last season I purchased a pair of Dalbello Supersport ZX boots from a local ski shop. I am a member of the chicken leg club though with the combination of skinny calf area, small ankles. I don't think my forefeet are all that wide and I typically fit into a size 12 street shoe. Wound up in a 28.5 boot. If it's important I am 6'0, 155lbs, and around a lvl 8 skier for what its worth.

1. What are your thoughts on the Dalbello?
2. I have heard it mentioned that these are for people with wide feet. Is that true?
3. If the boot is in fact a little to wide, would a custom liner be a good addition or would you recommend looking at a different shell?
4. For a different shell, what is your recommendation for people in the "chicken leg club".
post #34 of 543

I Need Help With A Boot Decision

Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bergeron

Hi everyone,

As many of you know, I have been answering boot questions on this site for the last three years. Generally, these are questions on how to find the right boots, the differences between brands and models, etc.... Feel free to ask whatever you like on ski boots, and I will answer as best as I can.

Answering questions does take considerable time, so here are some guidelines on how to ask.

1. As before, QUESTIONS NEED TO BE FORMATTED! Start with your background info (height, weight, skier type, preferred terrain, etc.... whatever is relevant) and then NUMBER YOUR QUESTIONS. As before, I WILL IGNORE UNFORMATTED QUESTIONS, due to time constraints.

2. NOTE THAT I DO NOT CORRECT OTHERS RESPONSES. Sometimes readers want to give advice, often because I have not been able to respond as quickly as I would like. These responses are fine, as long as they are kept short. As in one paragraph maximum. If you want to write more, contact the person elsewhere.

Also, a family issue kept me away from this site since nearly the end of last winter. If you posted questions that were not answered, feel free to repost them.

Have a great season, and I hope you find this thread useful.
Jeff,

Hey, this is my first time buying skis, boots, and bindings. The whole deal. I'm 18 years old, but an accomplished skier. I've skied all over the west side including Alta, Breckenridge, Whistler, Solitude, Jackson, and so on...

1.) I'm 5'9" to 6' and weigh 160-165 pounds. I ski aggresively and love to go fast. I would rate myself a 9. I've almost decided on getting Volkl Mantras with Marker Comp 14 bindings. I prefer skiing in deeper snow, off the beaten path, but that doesn't mean I don't like to rip it in the groomed once in a while. I'm not shy to hit jumps and drop cliffs. My feet are average size (U.S. shoe size =10.5), but my ankles are on the smaller side. My leg is strong and muscular, in other words, it's not scrawny but not huge. They're a little bigger than average. I'm a soccer player.

I've been looking at Salomon XWaves. What do you think?

Thanks, I appreciate any help.
--Rhys:
post #35 of 543
Hi Jeff,

Background: Male, 27 years old. Height: 6'0" (long legs). Weight 150 lbs (yes, light). Expert (Level 8/9) skier. Typically ski ~25 days/yr, mostly soft snow (west coast), off-piste, steep terrain (i.e. not racing on hardpack). EXTREMELY narrow foot, 11 AAA (especially narrow in forefoot), low arch, chicken legs. Current boots: Salomon Integral Equipe 7.0, size 28.0, circa 1994, with standard superfeet insole in addition to stock insole.

1.) Can you explain the general bootfitting process for an "extreme" case such as myself? Are fully custom liners a possibility/requirement?

2.) I've seen your recommendation of the Nordica Dobermann for other people with narrow feet - is this what you'd recommend in my case? Any other recommendations for a good "starting boot"?

3.) Can you give a ballpark estimate for the cost of the necessary bootfitting by a reputable bootfitter?

4.) Am I likely to notice a large difference in my skiing with new, properly fitted boots? To be honest, I'm a little hesitant to spend a large some of money for boots that may not be as comfortable as my old slipper-like (too loose, I'm sure) salomons.

Thank you very much for the advice!
post #36 of 543
Jeff, this is a follow-up to my earlier post (#15). On ebay someone is selling a used pair Nordica Doberman Pro 130 in the same size as my Beasts(25.5, 295mm sole length). I might be able to get them at a good price.
Question 1: Is there any difference in the heel pocket between the Doberman and the Beast?
Question 2: Is there enough difference between the boots to make it worth getting the Doberman for NASTAR racing?
Question 3: I am sure I will have to have the boots customed fitted for my feet. Will it matter that they are used?
Question 4:Can the used Doberman liner be re-adapted to my feet, or should I consider switching out liners with my Beast liners, or get new ones?
Again, with the exception of the heel pocket, I have no complains about the Beasts, but I wonder if I would gain something with the Doberman boots.

Thanks.
post #37 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydog
Background: 54 years old - started skiing about 25 years ago
5'7" 150 pounds
Ski the northeast 60 dyas per season
intermdiate/advanced skier
I ski groomed blues and blacks and occasionally venture into some easier mogul runs and glades
Ski: Atomic m10
Boot: Atomic CR10 - I have an otrhtotic that Scott Thompson at GMO made for me about 7 years ago
When I was 19 I severely fractured my right ankle resulting in a 25 - 30% loss in flexion, my right leg being about 3/8" shorter than my left and collapsed metatarsals.
Scott dealt with the collapsed metatarsals by building the footbed up under my toes so that my toes will contact the footbed - I find it difficult to get forward on my right foot and tend to ski stiff kneed (straight legged) -

Question:
I believe that the built up area under my toes may be throwing me back - ever so slightly- and that this also puts my right foot in a slightly flexed position further reducing my limited flexion. Would a better solution be building under the metatrasal which brings my toes down and in contact with the floor and perhaps adding a bit of heel lift or ramp angle to open me up and get me forward a bit.
Thank you.
Skydog,

To answer this with any certainty would require seeing you in person. As a guess, I suspect adding a bit more heel lift might be helpful for your situation, as might having the boot height modified to equal your leg lengths. Fore-aft issues are always inherently complex, so there may be other factors that are not even listed.

Jeff
post #38 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno
Hi Jeff, need some boot advice,I'v been skiing with lange ground zeros for the past 8 or 9 seasons and there starting to wear inside.I absolutley love these boots and have not had any problems except what I stated.I'm 5'9" about 165-170(weight varies),I ski on dynastar skicross 9,I'm an east coast skierand at the avanced level.1)What lange boot out now is comprable to the ground zero?
2)Are heat molded liners better than non moldable liners,would you recommend them?
3)Is there a boot out now that you would fit me into according to my info?
4)Whats the most important thing you tell someone when looking to get boots fitted?
bruno,

1. Frankly, I do not remember that model. I imagine it is one tier below the "race" line (as in the Comp series, not the plug boot). If this is accurate, then the CRL series should be comparable. My clients tend to be quite serious skiers, so I rarely work below the CRL line.
2. Lange's heat molded liner is quite good, better than most heat systems. I would get it if it did not cost too much extra.
3. You did not include details such as the overall width and volume of your feet, so I canno make any recommendations that would be helpful.
4. I look at this differently. I recommend you start by finding someone who is good. From there you can tell them what your needs are, and they will actually be able to do something about it.

I hope you find this helpful,
Jeff Bergeron
Pres., Boot Fixation
post #39 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by owl on skis
Jeff,

A very helpful service you are offering.

BACKGROUND - I am 6'2'' and 170lbs. I am 25 and have skied an average of 20-30 days a year for almost 20 years. I love skiing anything, but favorites are the bumps, jumps (a new phase in my skiing career) and powder (powder, if its there, always wins!). I am strong technically and ski fairly agggressively. I have very narrow, shallow feet.

1) I currently have a Comformable foam injected Lange Banshee Pro, which I bought about three years ago. The problem is that I have lost about 40lbs since I bought these and tend to be skiing a lot more bumps, and feel these are just too stiff for me. I am therefore looking forsomething which will satisfy my performance requirements, while being a bit softer for the sort of skiing and weight I am. I am very particular about having a good fit and so assume that foam injection with footbed will be essential again. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your advise.

Mike
Foot brother Mike,

Here is some general advice that I hope you find helpful.

1. Jibbers (jumpers and park riders) do not need or want as tight of a boot as someone who is just trying to carve or just ski well. Still, a narrower shell with a thinner liner (as in thinner than a foam liner) may work very well.
2. Jibbers tend to do better with a boot that is a bit lower in the cuff. Your height may means you can go to at least an average height cuff, however.
3. IMO, foam liners usually cause a lack of feedback from the boot. There are exceptions to this, but as a fellow narrow foot guy I recommend you get a narrow shell.
4. You did not mention your size, but the Lange Comp 100 WOMEN might work very well for what you are trying to do. I believe it is made up to the size 10 w, which is basically the same as the men's 9 (317mm?). They might be a bit difficult to find.
5. You might like the Nordica Dobermann PRO 110, which is relatively snug but easy to flex.
6. Keep in mind that boots can be softened (including your old boots), so if something is just slightly too stiff, you might be able to fix it.

Good luck,
Jeff

PS- feel free to write in if you have more specific questions.
post #40 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl
Jeff,

Thanks for offering up your services again this year!

Last season I purchased a pair of Dalbello Supersport ZX boots from a local ski shop. I am a member of the chicken leg club though with the combination of skinny calf area, small ankles. I don't think my forefeet are all that wide and I typically fit into a size 12 street shoe. Wound up in a 28.5 boot. If it's important I am 6'0, 155lbs, and around a lvl 8 skier for what its worth.

1. What are your thoughts on the Dalbello?
2. I have heard it mentioned that these are for people with wide feet. Is that true?
3. If the boot is in fact a little to wide, would a custom liner be a good addition or would you recommend looking at a different shell?
4. For a different shell, what is your recommendation for people in the "chicken leg club".
Fellow chicken member,

1. I think the Dalbello Krypton is a great boot, although it may be slightly roomy for you. According to your info, I highly doubt I would have ever considered a ZX Dalbello for your feet.
2. IMO, yes.
3. IMO, do not bother with the liner. You need the narrower shell.
4. I am guessing you are a recreational skier, so race boots may not be appropriate. Of the production boots, the Lange Comp and CRL series boots are fairly good. If, and only if, you have a good boot tech you can see, you might consider the Nordica Dobermann Pro 110 or Pro 130- BUT, they will almost certainly require modification from a skilled tech. If you have such a person, write back and I can give you a more detailed list.

One other point- Skiers with narrow/ low volume feet can often comfortably downsize their boots more than those with average or higher volume feet. Do not be afraid to at least try boots on that are smaller than you think will fit. This is especially true for the Race and Semi-Race boots.


Good luck,
Jeff
post #41 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliski
Jeff,

Hey, this is my first time buying skis, boots, and bindings. The whole deal. I'm 18 years old, but an accomplished skier. I've skied all over the west side including Alta, Breckenridge, Whistler, Solitude, Jackson, and so on...

1.) I'm 5'9" to 6' and weigh 160-165 pounds. I ski aggresively and love to go fast. I would rate myself a 9. I've almost decided on getting Volkl Mantras with Marker Comp 14 bindings. I prefer skiing in deeper snow, off the beaten path, but that doesn't mean I don't like to rip it in the groomed once in a while. I'm not shy to hit jumps and drop cliffs. My feet are average size (U.S. shoe size =10.5), but my ankles are on the smaller side. My leg is strong and muscular, in other words, it's not scrawny but not huge. They're a little bigger than average. I'm a soccer player.

I've been looking at Salomon XWaves. What do you think?

Thanks, I appreciate any help.
--Rhys:
Rhys,

The challenge to your question is, without seeing you I have no way of knowing what kind of stance you work best with. In general, freeriders do better with an softer flex and a bit more forward lean. Salomon boots tend to be a bit more upright, so this is a factor you want to consider.

What I would do if I were you is try them on and ask yourself if they feel aggressive enough for you. Do you feel like you are ready to take the mountain on, or do you feel like you are too upright? If the stance feels aggressive enough, the boots should be good. If not, perhaps you should try a boot with more forward lean such as the Tecnica Diablo.

One more point- the Salomon Xwaves are a bit bulky in the heel area. If you like the stance but want something more snug, try the Salomon Pro Model.

I hope you find this helpful and best of luck for your ski season.
Jeff
post #42 of 543
Jeff, like so many others here, I'm delighted that you have afforded this service on-line, and gratis, no less!

I recently tried on two kinds of boots - one was the Lange 120 comp (blue) in 7 and the other was the Nordica Doberman (can't tell you the model) in 7. I was wearing very, very thin dress socks at the time (had just left a meeting at a downtown law firm). The Dobermans fit perfectly, but are stiffer than the Langes. The Langes - or one of them - fit perfectly on my right foot. On my left foot, my high instep was pinched. That is always my problem, whether with loafers, tennis shoes or ski boots.

The question: Is there some way to relief the pinching of my high instep by the left boot?
post #43 of 543
1) What can I do to keep my heels from moving around too much in my Salomon Crossmax 10s?

2) Are there boots with wider toeboxes and narrower heels than these? What are they?
post #44 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by c2ski
Hi Jeff,

Background: Male, 27 years old. Height: 6'0" (long legs). Weight 150 lbs (yes, light). Expert (Level 8/9) skier. Typically ski ~25 days/yr, mostly soft snow (west coast), off-piste, steep terrain (i.e. not racing on hardpack). EXTREMELY narrow foot, 11 AAA (especially narrow in forefoot), low arch, chicken legs. Current boots: Salomon Integral Equipe 7.0, size 28.0, circa 1994, with standard superfeet insole in addition to stock insole.

1.) Can you explain the general bootfitting process for an "extreme" case such as myself? Are fully custom liners a possibility/requirement?

2.) I've seen your recommendation of the Nordica Dobermann for other people with narrow feet - is this what you'd recommend in my case? Any other recommendations for a good "starting boot"?

3.) Can you give a ballpark estimate for the cost of the necessary bootfitting by a reputable bootfitter?

4.) Am I likely to notice a large difference in my skiing with new, properly fitted boots? To be honest, I'm a little hesitant to spend a large some of money for boots that may not be as comfortable as my old slipper-like (too loose, I'm sure) salomons.

Thank you very much for the advice!
All hail the king of the chicken skiers!

Wow, 11AAA is truly narrow. Not people write in with narrower feet than mine. I am going to write some advice and then answer your questions.

First, you need the narrowest/ lowest volume boot you can find, preferably as short as is still reasonably comfortable. Ideally, they will not be too stiff. Some good choices are the Head RS 96, Dolomite Z 110, Nordica Dobermann WC 150 (avoid the Pro models), and Salomon X2 (their full race boot is very tight in the toes). A long shot is the Atomic Race Tech TI in an XS flex. (It is super snug in the heel, but roomier in the forefoot.) Rumor is they will have a foam liner available this year. Then, after you find your shell, have them ground if you have any pressure spots.

From there you may want a different liner. The ideal situation would be to find a thicker liner from another boot (obviously, test it for comfort) that will hold your foot better. Sometimes you can find leftover production boots that work well. If this does not work, you may have to go with a foam liner, but do not be surprised if you lose some feel for the snow with this option.

Then get the boots professionally aligned. Use the best tech you can find, and become friends with him/ her because you will probably be spending some time together.

1. Covered above.
2. Covered above.
3. Cost will depend on how much work you need. If you are lucky, you will not require any major canting, so costs will be limited to footbeds and fitting. If you are very unlucky, you will require foam liners, canting, footbeds, fitting, internal ramp work, binding ramp work. This might require a second mortgage. I really do not care to guess on any of the prices, either way.
4. Yes, you will be amazed at the difference. Imagine driving an old american car with a loose steering rack. You turn the steering wheel, but the car does not move. Both turning and going straight are difficult. That is similar to what you are using now. (Still, you could have done worse with your boot choice.)

Now picture driving a new Porsche down the road. Every imput you make to the steering wheel is transmitted to the car. You think move, and the car goes where you want it. This is what you could have. (Assuming you make the right choice, and get a good boot tech.)


Lastly, what I would really prefer is if Dalbello would make a narrow plug version of their Krypton boot. That should be able to hold your foot, and ski rougher terrain beautifully. I think everyone with low volume feet should ask them to do just that. IMO.

Good luck,
Jeff
post #45 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgudaitis
Jeff, this is a follow-up to my earlier post (#15). On ebay someone is selling a used pair Nordica Doberman Pro 130 in the same size as my Beasts(25.5, 295mm sole length). I might be able to get them at a good price.
Question 1: Is there any difference in the heel pocket between the Doberman and the Beast?
Question 2: Is there enough difference between the boots to make it worth getting the Doberman for NASTAR racing?
Question 3: I am sure I will have to have the boots customed fitted for my feet. Will it matter that they are used?
Question 4:Can the used Doberman liner be re-adapted to my feet, or should I consider switching out liners with my Beast liners, or get new ones?
Again, with the exception of the heel pocket, I have no complains about the Beasts, but I wonder if I would gain something with the Doberman boots.

Thanks.
I just wrote a long post and lost it. Not happy about it.

Anyway....
1. The Dobermann Pro shell is medium-narrow in the heel, the Beast is wide. Big difference.
2. Yes, if you get the Dobermann, you should be forced to take an oath that you will never ski on bulky boots again (as in the Beast- do not get the wrong idea, the Beast is a good boot but is quite bulky.)
3. Used boots are not ideal, unless they have seen little use and no modifications such as grinding or stretches. Not the best choice, IMO.
4. If it has not been used to much, the stock liner will probably be ok. Unless you have very narrow feet, it is unlikely that the Beast liners will fit into the Dobermanns. Also, remember that the Beast is much wider in the forefoot than the Dobermann.

Jeff
post #46 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe
Jeff, like so many others here, I'm delighted that you have afforded this service on-line, and gratis, no less!

I recently tried on two kinds of boots - one was the Lange 120 comp (blue) in 7 and the other was the Nordica Doberman (can't tell you the model) in 7. I was wearing very, very thin dress socks at the time (had just left a meeting at a downtown law firm). The Dobermans fit perfectly, but are stiffer than the Langes. The Langes - or one of them - fit perfectly on my right foot. On my left foot, my high instep was pinched. That is always my problem, whether with loafers, tennis shoes or ski boots.

The question: Is there some way to relief the pinching of my high instep by the left boot?
First of all, these boots may not be the same size. Lange's come in the American size, while Nordicas are generally listed in the UK sizing. Keep this in mind.

It is difficult to make much extra room at the instep, so it is always important to choose carefully when you experience pain here. Overall, the Dobermann sound better, but other issues such as stance may further complicate your choice. Ironically, more modification can be made to the Dobermanns than to the Langes.

Jeff
post #47 of 543
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
1) What can I do to keep my heels from moving around too much in my Salomon Crossmax 10s?

2) Are there boots with wider toeboxes and narrower heels than these? What are they?
1. Pad them with FIRM pads. Good luck finding a shop that will actually do a good job of this (IMO).

2. Tecnica Diablo, possibly the new Nordica Speedmachine and some race boots.
post #48 of 543
Jeff,

Thanks for doing this. If I ever get back out to Summit County, I'll be sure to stop in and run some business by your shop. I'm a 6 foot nothing, 185 pound middle aged former racer (closer to 50 than 40). I used to ski only racing skis, tried the all-mountain route (Atomic R11's) and have come home to Race Carver skis (Fischer RC4). I ski fast on steep groomers, will do moguls just for the workout, and will ski anything lift-served out west. I typically ski 20-30 days per season. I have very flat feet (pretty severe pronation) that are wide in the forefoot, very narrow ankles, low volume overall at least when standing flat. Fortunately I don't have any maladies like spurs or old breaks. I live in central New York and don't have access to a professional bootfitter within 3 hours. I'm looking for a boot to start with that I can hopefully take on a trip to Vermont this winter and get professional help in a long weekend. I have a shop locally that has last year's boots for a very good price, but the bootfitting leaves a lot to be desired. I'd rather not try to buy boots at a resort in mid-season...

1. What boots trend toward my foot type. I know Salomons tend to have wide forefoots (forefeet?) but I can't get enough heel hold even with extra padding. I had Salomons that were too small for my feet (toes firmly touching the liner) and my heels still lifted. I'm currently in Tecnica Icon Carbons which are comfortable, but I still have heel lift issues even after using the Tecnica inserts and extra padding. I read another article that mentioned that Lange's were more in line with my foot type. Any opinions?

2. Do I have a prayer of getting a professional fit in a weekend?

3. I'm considering orthotics for running. Can these same orthotics be used in ski boots?

Thanks again,

Brian
post #49 of 543
Hi Jeff,
I've been debating on whether to post in this thread or not but I'll just go ahead.

I'm a 26 yo male, 6'1'' ~220lbs (likely 200-210 by ski season) and a level 8 (maybe more, I'm not sure) skiier. My technique is pretty solid (used to race) and I like to ski fast cruisers, steeps and assorted nonsense available in the harder to get to areas of bowls. I can ski bumps, but prefer not to.

I've been on Technica Explosion 8's from about 7 or 8 years ago and loved the boot until the lining really started to pack in to a point where they were simply just too big. Last year I bought boots toward the end of the season and tried to stuff a custom foamed liner into a shell that was probably too big for me. The liner didn't come out too well and the boot never fit right. I've talked to the dealer and I think they're going to take the boots back and give me another go this year. What should I be looking at?
My foot is pretty odd. It measures out to a 13.5, but the arch length is more like a 14 or 15. I also have a very low arch, although it's not completely flat. The point of my heel is skewed off to the side a bit, which always seems to blister like crazy with new boots, and even normal shoes until the heel area wears out a bit. The latest measurement on my width said it was pretty narrow, although I was told a few years ago that I was a EE (don't understand this). Any way you look at it...my foot is hell to fit.

I want a boot that skis more or less like a race boot in terms of its stiffness, but I've been told that boots have progressed significantly since I bought those Explosion 8's and that I should expect more flex in the shell as compared to my old Technicas for today's high-performance boots.

I have no idea what to look at. I've been told that the Nordica Doberman 120 is a good choice for me, as well as the X-Wave 10 and the Technica equivalent to my Explosion 8's.

I'm lost. Any advice?

ps. If you can recommend boot fitters around NYC or Vermont, I'd much appreciate it. Right now I'm going to go back to the guy I worked with last year in Vermont, Hal at Northern Ski Works in Killington. He seemed knowledgeable and I trust him, although the job didn't come out as imagined last year.
post #50 of 543

Boot Fit Problem

Hi Jeff

I know this seems like groundhog day but I don't seem to have had a reply from you.

To give you further background info I'm 35, 210lbs, 5' 8" (well built not fat!)been skiing since I was 5 so fairly good.

I posted this ages ago and I know you've tried to reply but I can't seem to pick it up. I also e-mailed you a copy of the outline of my foot as a further aid (over the top I know but I want to get this sorted once and for all!). Could you reply on this site as I can read this now.

Been in hospital to have a disc removed from my spine but back at home now and the drugs are wearing off! Any replies now would be appreciated as I'm bed bound for the next 3 weeks and it will give me something to think about. I'd like to get a snug fit on my foot and leg without all the pain. Is this possible or am I asking for too much?



Old Quote................


I've had a pair of Salomon X-waves for three years now and had them altered (outer) new linings (thermofit) messed around with heel insert, taken footbeds out/in/ new ones and still can't get the right fit. I'm told the Salomon's are still the best for my feet.

My feet are wide as are my calves but my ankles are thin.

The problem I have is heel lift and too much space (hence movement) in the top of the boot, resulting in a lack of control transerring to the ski. Resulting in me being mad and lacking confidence when off piste.

This is illiminated if I wind the boots up. The only problem then is massive pain in my arches and calves as they are too tight.

I've had them profesionally altered at resorts but the problem still rears it's bloody head!

In a measure of desparation I thought I'd board to avoid the discomfort but it's nowhere near as good and my heels still lift!

Can anyone offer any good advice as to the way forward?
post #51 of 543
Hi Jeff,

Background: Male, 33 years old. Height: 5'11". Weight 140 lbs. (Level 6/7) skier. Typically ski ~5 hours/week, EXTREMELY skinny feet, chicken legs. Current boots: Rossignol Elite Pro 1 Junior, size 26.5, with "conformable" pro form foamed liners + moulded footbeds.

1.) My foamed liners have made the lower half of my shells fit perfectly round my feet but I am still left with my skinny calves requiring me to still have to clamp the upper two shell buckles to their last clasp for a snug fit round my leg. This is with the buckle clasps already moved to the narrowest position on cuffs.
I have been recommended to perhaps try the foamed tongue option for my liners but I am sceptical that they will reduce leg volume.
Would be grateful if you can offer me any recommendations on best practices to reduce leg volume for upper shell.

Thank you very much for your advice.
post #52 of 543

Bowlegged Blues

Jeff,

I posted this on another forum, someone suggested I post it here for you to possibly respond to. Thanks,

I was hoping that someone who is very knowledgeable about alignment issues and canting in particular could provide me with some information.

I am very bowlegged and have been realizing over the past year or so how much this has affected my skiing. Last year I brought my boots to a bootfitter and although he told me they were too big, he did build me some foot beds and adjusted the boots as best he could which made a big difference in my skiing and comfort (i have high arches so the footbeds really helped there.)

Anyway, although the adjustments he made were helpful, it was clear that I still had major alignment issues. Specifically, the bowleggedness forces more weight to the outside of my feet with results in my skis edges being out of alignment relative to each other. Instead of my ski being flat _ _ they tend to be like this / \ Therefore in a turn my outside ski is under edged and want to go more straight down the fall line (understeer) and my inside ski is overedged and wants to turn more sharply (oversteer.) This forces me to either ski on one ski or the other since they don't want to turn at the same rates. Alternatively I can force my knees inward to eliminate the bowleggedness, but this is not natural and hard to do with any consistancy.

So, at my bootfitter's advice i tried putting layers of duct tape between the bottoms of my boots and the ski binding. I don't remember if he told me where to put it so I experimented and found that six layers on the INSIDE of the skis seemed to help a great deal. The duct tape on the inside would result in more edging there and 'flatten' my ski bottoms(from / \ to _ _) and put them in alignment with each other. For the first time ever I felt I could tip my knees simultaneously and both skis would track together through the turn. Also, for the first time I could ski on one ski, previously I would always fall away (inside) from the ski I was on - if I tried to ski on my right ski, I would fall towards the left. The duct tape seemd to fix that and viola! one legged skiing became possible.

Now I know, I know, I know that six layers of tape is alot and can reduce the safety of the binding so clearly I need to ditch the tape and have the boots ground or otherwise adjusted to deal with the canting issues. But the boots were old and not worth the investment so new boots were in order.

Having moved, I asked for recommendations for a new bootfitter and have worked with him to get the footbeds installed and he has adjusted the cuffs and all that. Everything seems fine except for the canting issue. We talked about it and agreed that I should try the new boots with the duct tape to zero in on the proper amount of cant before we grind/adjust the boots. However, he said that since I'm bowlegged I should put the duct tape on the OUTSIDE edges. He showed me how (by standing on a perfectly flat surface) canting wedges would force my knees inward so they are more stacked over my ankles, he said that this would improve my balance.

So now I am thoroughly confused. I can see his point about the knees, but when I am in a turn there is only one edge 'on the ground' at a time, therefore there are not two edges to provide reference forces to guide the knee into place. Wouldn't my knee revert to it's 'normal' position and I be left with even worse ski bottom edge angles? Is he confusing boot/knee alignment with ski bottom edge alignment? Was I imaging last year's onelegged skiing and the simultaneous tracking skiing?

:

Anyway, any help or insight to the bowlegged skiing question would be greatly apreciated.

1. To find the most effective cant adjustment for a bowlegged skier should one be trying duct tape on the inside or outside side of the ski? (before having the boots ground/modified) Some folks say the outside to move the knee for balance/load reasons, others say the inside to correct the ski edges. Since I don't have any problems or pains with my knees, but have big problems with my edge alignment, shouldn't I be worring about the edges and be using canting to fix that?

Thanks,

Steve
post #53 of 543

Dobermans - How much can they be softened?

Hi Jeff -

I am 52, 180 pounds, an expert but not a racer, don't like bumps, ski mostly on piste here in Western, NY with an annual trip out West where I do get off the trail some. I am currently on RX8's and Lange L8's.

I am looking to replace the L8's. To that end I posted once before to regarding replacing the L8's. You told me the L8's have a 'weird flex pattern'. Well, I think you were very right . . . let me explain.

I recently tried on the following - Lange Comp 120 MF, Nordica Speedmachine 14, Nordica Hot Rod, Doberman Pro 130, and the Rossignol Elite Pro. Of these the best fit was easily the Pro 130. Next best was the Hot Rod. The rest were far behind. My only concern with the 130's is the flex. This is where it gets tricky. You hear everywhere that the 130 is a racer boot - too stiff for normal free skiing - requires tremendous precision from the pilot, only for aggressive skiers, etc. Whatever, clearly it is stiff relative to the others I tried on. But believe it or not the 130's actually flex a lot easier than my Lange L8's - which, in fact, barely flex at all. There is your weird flex pattern. The guy who helped me with all these boots tried on my L8's (we have the same size feet) and declared they were stiffer than his plugs. He was amazed. So, I can flex the 130's so to me they actually seem soft. BTW - to me they were stiffer than the Hot Rod but roughly the same or maybe a tad stiffer than the Lange Comp 120 and the Rossie. The Speedmachine flexed like crazy by comparison.

My questions -

1) On the theory that fit is most important the 130's are clearly for me. But, I am concerned about the flex. Sure relative to the L8 it flexs but what are your thoughts given that this is billed as a 'stiff' boot in today's terms given that I have just discovered I have been skiing around for 4 years in boots that basically do not flex? Maybe what I am asking is how do I know what is too stiff or too soft?

2) As you have said many times before in your posts a boot can be softened but not stiffened. That suggests to me that the 130's is a good boot for me given that the fit is great, it is softer than my current boots, but still 'stiff' relative to most other boots. Meaning there is room too soften it. Plus, I have seen you suggest in other posts that the Doberman range responds well to softening. That is good to know but can you give me an idea of how well the Doberman will respond? How much can I expect?

3) Following from #2 - how are they softened? I assume removing the screws on the spine is step one. But if step one is not enough then what is step two?

I hope this is clear and thanks in advance Jeff for your attention.

Tom A.
post #54 of 543

Until Jeff shows up...

Hammer,

I do not think the Dobermann Pro 130 will be too stiff for you @180lbs. I weigh 155lbs and i have the Tecnica Race R w/ 150 flex. Guess what? It is softer than the Dobie 150 and closer to the Pro. I can flex it and i do not believe they will stiffen a lot on the coldest days.Yes you can remove the two studs but i do not recommend it. It would be better to soften the boot if you cut the lower exactly where the dotted lines are. I know that the 150 has them so my guess is that they have them too.
post #55 of 543
SYWSYW =

Hey thanks. I appreciate the input. I remember there being dotted lines that run horizontally on the lower - they run about 1/2 inch below the top of the lower where it arcs up to meet your shin. Are these the lines you see on the 150? Also, why not remove the two studs on the spine?

Hammer
post #56 of 543
Hammer,

Yes and they run on all sides. But keep in mind that once cut, the boot cannot be restiffened. So i recommend you cut them one at a time and then flex it so that they will be perfect. Jeff will probably tell you that you need to see a skilled bootfitter for this. I did it myself. I cut my lower on all sides and they were definitely softer to flex and contrary to what the others adviced, i put both bolts in. The flex is perfect. The range of flex is definitely shorter but that is what i wanted, it is much more powerful and less elastic.
Why not remove the two studs on the spine?
It is not a bad thing if you do it, but keep in mind that the bolts in the back are directly related to transmission of energy to the ski. Taking them out will increase the flexibility of the boot but decrease the responsiveness of it.
After all, it's the Dobie 4 bolt design, isn't it?
The best thing about cutting the lower is that you will not alter the flex of the boot. Whatever you do, DO NOT CUT A "V" IN THE SPINE!
I think you found them soft because they really flex!
post #57 of 543
SYWSYW -
Thanks again. Assuming I go with these boots I will certainly ski them before I start hacking away! But it is good to know I can go softer as needed. One last question if you don't mind - what did you use to cut the lowers on your boots?
Hammer
post #58 of 543
Hi Jeff,


Me: 5'6, 175lbs, and 50 this year (God, Really?) level 9 skier aggressive and still getting better, going to camps etc. off piste 95%.

I have an extremly wide forefoot (street size 7.5 EEEEE) and a pretty narrow heal, all the boots I have had in the last 20 years (before that I just bought them too big so they wouldn't hurt) I have had to have punched out. I had some Lange L10's and some Atomic 10 race that I had punched out several times and the would just return to be to "small" after 2nd day. Tried $300 Surefoot injected liners also and didn't work. Both went in the garage sale after about 8 days. Am now on Stroltz boots (the black ones) and the don't hurt but are not great in the performance area (the are oversized with the volume taken up by the injected liners, liners are very nice though!!)

I live in Oregon and I can't seem to find a good fitter here

1) What boot out there will fit me the best and what is the best way to punch them out ??
post #59 of 543
Jeff-

I am exploring which race boot would be right for me. I have pretty much brand-new 06 Diablo 130's in a 28 that I don't have access to becuase of an ugly family situation at the moment. I may get them back, or I may not. In any case, I want to explore a replacement, if I need one.

I weight about 198, am 6'2", and race (not this year, but w/e). Skill level is 9, I like to go very fast on hard snow and race. I have a left foot that measures an 11.5, and a right foot that is between a 12 and a 12.5. Both are mid-C width. I have a VERY low instep, almost a right angle, and narrow heels (unsure of how to quantify this). Arches are low, and I have a tendency to overpronate, rolling the foot over. This will require footbed correction.Toes are of a wedge shape, as opposed to sqaure, and I have no foot injuries or other abnormalities.

1. I have heard good things about the new Lange plug (WC 150 or RL11, same thing). First off, can I get into these boots (assuming I come to see you for the fitting)? I want something that I can ski in all day without being in pain, but performance and precision are of paramount importance as well. Any comments or advice about the boots is appreciated.

2. What other boot could be good for my foot? I tend to like boots that are more forward than upright, but not to an extreme. I have yet to encounter a boot that I cannot flex, so that is of little concern to me. I am prepared to do a full custom fitting: footbeds, alignment, and shell work. I would only trust you to do this complete of a job, as I no longer have access to PJ Dewey and CO is closer than NY in my current location.

3. How much would a full setup in a plug run me, with fitting by you?
post #60 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublediamond223
Jeff-

I am exploring which race boot would be right for me. I have pretty much brand-new 06 Diablo 130's in a 28 that I don't have access to becuase of an ugly family situation at the moment. I may get them back, or I may not. In any case, I want to explore a replacement, if I need one.

I weight about 198, am 6'2", and race (not this year, but w/e). Skill level is 9, I like to go very fast on hard snow and race. I have a left foot that measures an 11.5, and a right foot that is between a 12 and a 12.5. Both are mid-C width. I have a VERY low instep, almost a right angle, and narrow heels (unsure of how to quantify this). Arches are low, and I have a tendency to overpronate, rolling the foot over. This will require footbed correction.Toes are of a wedge shape, as opposed to sqaure, and I have no foot injuries or other abnormalities.

1. I have heard good things about the new Lange plug (WC 150 or RL11, same thing). First off, can I get into these boots (assuming I come to see you for the fitting)? I want something that I can ski in all day without being in pain, but performance and precision are of paramount importance as well. Any comments or advice about the boots is appreciated.

2. What other boot could be good for my foot? I tend to like boots that are more forward than upright, but not to an extreme. I have yet to encounter a boot that I cannot flex, so that is of little concern to me. I am prepared to do a full custom fitting: footbeds, alignment, and shell work. I would only trust you to do this complete of a job, as I no longer have access to PJ Dewey and CO is closer than NY in my current location.

3. How much would a full setup in a plug run me, with fitting by you?
If you have read Jeff's answers would already know that the answer to most of your questions can be found in his thread. In Jeff's opinon, the Lange RL11 has a high instep, but the Atomic Race Tech has a low instep and this will be the boot he will probably recommend because you like a boot with more forward lean. IMO if you have a medium to wide forefoot, this boot should work very well.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ask the Boot Guys › 06 Expert boot advice by Jeff Bergeron/ Boot Fixation