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Nutty Idea? Looking for your feedback. - Page 2

post #31 of 44
People are guided, as you know, for a variety of outdoor activities all around the JH area. Mountain climbing, hiking/backpacking and hunting in the fall. I don't see how the injury/rescue thing would be a problem. You would do what they do.

As you also know, summer is when the most yahoos with bucks visit the valley. With the right marketing ya never know. I would not give up yet as even in wildife sensitive areas sometimes limited use, especially low impact sports, might be permitted.

One neg thing. Is poor Andy going to have to answer every call at the office while your guiding folks in JH's version of a day at the beach surfing.
post #32 of 44
sounds cool, but only for people who are already into backcountry skiing.
post #33 of 44
Bob,

A lot of folks have wondered about the draw of one day of summer
skiing. Sure that's an expensive proposition. Folks also show dismay at
commercializing the BC.

Why do people ski BC? Freedom, nature, man against the mountain? The
philosphy of "earning my turns".

So, I see a second option. Why not devise a program that's one to three
days in length. Overcome the fitness and safety obstacles by creating a
"BC for Beginners" type of offering. "BC Skills and Safety". Perhaps
the modules are something like:

- equipment -- what you need and how to use it
- hiking with gear 101 -- how to pack, physical techniques of hiking
fully loaded ... take a few short hikes like this
- get a doc to talk about altitude sickness/proper fuel and hydration
- avi safety and awareness
- etc. etc. -- the added bonus is that you do some skiing.

Bonus: If you happen upon some bad weather, it doesn't cancel the whole
event.

I do think that folks will shell out some REAL dollars for backcountry
training. You can promote yourself to ski clubs and other
organizations. Offer group rates. Get the resort to work with you on
items like lodging and meals. Make it "all inclusive" if you can. Then
offer a flat package rate so that people can make easier decisions.
Include an airport transfer service, etc. You can even offer a women's
event. Chicks love that -- and more apt to go with the support of
friends.

Adventure vacations are very popular, as are learning vacations. Find
your niche by bridging the two!

Good luck,
kiersten
post #34 of 44
I think its a great idea, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're going to get people coming from across the country. I'd really enjoy it, summer or winter. If I lived an hour or two away, I'd take you up on it fairly often. Since I live East Coast, if I'm going to pay to fly out there and get a room, I might as well do it in winter when there's so much more I could do....

My 2 pfennings.
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHedgie
I think its a great idea, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're going to get people coming from across the country.
If you have been to Jackson Hole in the summer you know that getting millions of people from all over the country is about as hard as tripping over a log blindfolded. These people are already there obviously cause of Grand Teton NP which the JHMR borders and Jellystone NP a few miles up the road. 75% of the Jackson Hole economy is from summer tourism.
post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul jones
Maybe you could find Sherpa type locals who would haul skis, boots, food and beer.
That's really funny. We'll be busy carrying our climbing, skiing or snowboarding gear. This isn't Nepal man. We all have jobs to do and when we get time off, we want to go play, not haul gear and beer for tourists. That's hilarious.
post #37 of 44
A quick reaction, for what little it's worth:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
The problem of how to evacuate someone who might get hurt is a fairly tough one.
That seems like a little bit of an over-reaction (by whomever) to me. It seems to be based on the assumption that the skiing part is substantially more dangerous than just the hiking/climbing/etc. part.

Quote:
Also, it's been brought to my attention that Grand Teton National Park considers the ridgeline between the tram and Cody Peak to be bighorn sheep range.
That, on the the other hand, does sound like a possible deal killer. Species protection stuff can be really, really inflexible.
post #38 of 44
Thread Starter 
All of these replies are really great. There's some excellent feedback here that will help make the service better if it ever happens.

Kiersten, your suggestions are outstanding and I suspect you're absolutely right. There is probably a segment of the market that would really like to learn some of the background stuff that I sort of take for granted (like how to load a pack and what junk to take).

offpiste, I was chuckling too at the thought of a Sherpa to haul the gear around. On second thought, though, I'm not sure it's a completely outlandish idea. The college-age son of a friend of ours spent the summer hauling outfitter and client gear up and down the Lower Saddle for Exum. He was basically a Sherpa grunt and he loved it.

As sjjohnston says, the evac thing might be manageable but the bighorns could be the dealkiller. We'll see.

Thanks again to all of you for your comments. I really appreciate the thought that's gone into your replies. I'm off the grid for a couple of weeks while my wife and I traipse through Slovenia. So if I don't reply for a little while, I still love to see your suggestions.
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
offpiste, I was chuckling too at the thought of a Sherpa to haul the gear around. On second thought, though, I'm not sure it's a completely outlandish idea. The college-age son of a friend of ours spent the summer hauling outfitter and client gear up and down the Lower Saddle for Exum. He was basically a Sherpa grunt and he loved it.
Yea Bob, there probably are some young bucks in the valley that would schlep gear for a summer living. I guess what I'm looking at is that alot of people work higher paying steady jobs in the summer so they can supplement they're lower paying winter jobs. I personally have to make minimum $12-$15 an hour, full time plus in the summer, or I have to give up my low wage skid lifestyle in the winter.

You know, for the life of me, I can't understand this but, there are people that come in for the summer and leave with the first snows. These guys might be interested in this as an opportunity to break into guiding.

I don't mind sharing the corn with you and other locals Bob but, sharing it with strangers? It just pushes us older guys further out. 20 years ago, that wouldn't be an issue but today? Whew! We're already adding 800 vertical to the winter hikes.

I just feels like the Corp is trying to impose itself on everything from Saratoga Bowl to Teton Pass. Before you know it, we'll have ski school on Glory and Little Tuck's. That will be a dark day. Sorry Brian, no offense. I hope you can see my point.

I hope to make some turns with you this winter Bob. I dressed out and went looking for you last winter but, you were never in your office. Busy busy. Have a great fall and I'll see you in Nov.

Peace
Mike
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
a) do I think anyone would be interested enough in skiing out of bounds from the JH tram in the summer to actually pay for a guide; and b) would I be interested in guiding them if they were?

So, I'm posing the question to you folks. I would likely share any feedback you have with the SSD.

Is this a completely nutty idea? Does the prospect of hiking an hour at 10,000 feet with skis and boots on a pack sound like fun or torture? Does skiing corn snow in shorts and a t-shirt in the Tetons in June seem like something you'd like to do? Would you be willing to pay someone to show you how and where? ("Normal" winter rates for a guide are nearly $500/day - this summer idea would have to be about $150 - $250 in order to pay for the liability and permits and such). One nice thing about summer skiing is that you only go when the weather is nice; the skiing sucks if the sun isn't out.

Good, bad, indifferent - I'd love to hear your thoughts.
If I didn't leave near Mammoth and couldn't afford to go to south of the equator, I'd definitely go for it at JH.

I flew to Portillo for 9 days of 'summer' skiing.
However, I don't know if I'd go to Jackson for the summer since I live about 2-1/2 hours drive from Mammoth which is open through July 4th (sometimes Squaw is) and there's always back country here in Tahoe in June and often July. Also, I'll be going to South America or New Zealand almost every August unless there a big change in my financial situation.

The one hour hike does sound like torture but I'd probably do it if I couldn't find summer skiing elsewhere.
post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by offpiste
That's really funny. We'll be busy carrying our climbing, skiing or snowboarding gear. This isn't Nepal man. We all have jobs to do and when we get time off, we want to go play, not haul gear and beer for tourists. That's hilarious.
So that's a no?
post #42 of 44
Actually I used to haul stuff for older guys at Tuckermans Ravine back when I was in shape. Heh, if I did it then, maybe some would do it now.

Problem is: people hike at different speeds. I might be able to hike the hike but it may take me a lot longer than others.
post #43 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by offpiste
...

I don't mind sharing the corn with you and other locals Bob but, sharing it with strangers? It just pushes us older guys further out. 20 years ago, that wouldn't be an issue but today? Whew! We're already adding 800 vertical to the winter hikes.

I just feels like the Corp is trying to impose itself on everything from Saratoga Bowl to Teton Pass. Before you know it, we'll have ski school on Glory and Little Tuck's. That will be a dark day. Sorry Brian, no offense. I hope you can see my point.

I hope to make some turns with you this winter Bob. I dressed out and went looking for you last winter but, you were never in your office. Busy busy. Have a great fall and I'll see you in Nov.

Peace
Mike
Hi, Mike.

To be fair to the Corp, this was sort of a discussion that just evolved out of me talking about skiing during the summer. I honestly doubt that it will even go anywhere, but I've been surprised at how many people on Epic have expressed an interest.

As to additional tracks, that's one really nice thing about summer skiing. Up to a point, the skiing actually improves with a little traffic because the ski tracks sort of smooth out the runnels and sun cups. Besides that, I just can't imagine that there would be some massive demand for this kind of service. More of a novelty than a serious movement.

Yeah. Let's make some turns this winter. I'm getting all excited for winter to return.
post #44 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
Hi, Mike.

To be fair to the Corp, this was sort of a discussion that just evolved out of me talking about skiing during the summer. I honestly doubt that it will even go anywhere, but I've been surprised at how many people on Epic have expressed an interest.

As to additional tracks, that's one really nice thing about summer skiing. Up to a point, the skiing actually improves with a little traffic because the ski tracks sort of smooth out the runnels and sun cups. Besides that, I just can't imagine that there would be some massive demand for this kind of service. More of a novelty than a serious movement.

Yeah. Let's make some turns this winter. I'm getting all excited for winter to return.
Hi Bob,
Thanks for clearing up that it was an independent idea and not the Corp. Appearently I was not paying attention when I read your original post. Sorry, I'm just a little touchy about capitalism in the backcountry. It's truely the last place to find peace and solitude in the world and I feel that it should be earned through hard work with a close group of friends that have the skills and not paid for. I know it sounds like a tree hugging hippie ideal but, I kinda am a leftover tree hugging hippie. I still occasionally pull out the pinners and leather boots. I gave up granola and I eat meat but, my soul still searches for that ideal. If it were not for the resort job, I would have a ponytail and a beard.
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