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Versitle Powder Skis

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I've been looking to upgrade from my current all-mountain skis to a wider powder ski and am looking for something that will be sweet in boot-knee deep plus, but also somthing that won't be a bear off the powder. (so something with a bit of side cut) I'm a Colorado skier, like to ski trees, bowls, powder; I am 6'0" 195 lbs. a 7/8 skier. Looking for something with a bit of softness for powder and something a bit lighter than what I've been sking (Vokels). I've looked at Solomon Pocket Rockets, Rossi B3 Bandits, Atomic Sugar Daddys and Metron 12, Head mojo and Head Monster i.M (the last two based on salesman reccomendations). Any thoughts on these or others that might fit what I'm looking for?
post #2 of 21
Legend 8800?
post #3 of 21
My everday ski at Loveland was a Seth Pistol. The only place the were really ponderous was in the moguls, with a good tune the were fine on firm stuff and rocked just about everthing else. Some people have complained that the chatter at high speed, but if you balanced on them and not against them they are fine.
post #4 of 21
Seth Vicious 179cm


See my posts on it by doing a search.
post #5 of 21

I like the Head iM77,

but here's a link to some reviews of a number of other candidates.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=24363
post #6 of 21
Bs"D
The new Head im88 is suppossed to be everything you want.
I am considering switching from my Legend 8800 to the im88 based on reviews, but will have to demo first.
I wonder if JSTRAW has skied it and can make a comparison?
The 8800 comes real close, but although it is a great powder and crud ski, and is very smooth and manueverable on the soft groomed, it doesn't carve like a real hardpack ski and has NO hold on ice.
The reviews on the im88 are that it carves the hardpack like a GS race ski, besides having the width and flex for being great in powder. It is also suppossed to be very forgiving, and even soft enough for slow speeds despite its high speed stability. Amazing if its all true!
I guess it is the mix of shape (wide w/ deep sidecut); wood core and sandwich construction (torsional rigidity), intelligence fibers (varible stiffness both tip to tail and torsionally aiding both powder and hardpack respectively); and liquid metal (rebound proportinate to energy put in) that allows it to behave well both in powder and carve the hardpack.
BTW check out #6 in the above mentioned thread.
post #7 of 21
mantra or im88
post #8 of 21
Bs"D

Skifordad, that is another head to "Head" comparison that I would like to hear about.
Have you skied both the Volkl Mantra and the im88?
So far:
Legend 8800 vs im88 vs Mantra
post #9 of 21
I would recommend that you demo the Pocket Rockets, now renamed the TenEighty Gun for 05-06. They are like having power steering thru the trees and can handle the groom. The tips on the Pocket Rocket are very flexible and nicely bend up in the powder to keep you on top. Watching those tips ride the powder is a beautiful thing.

Another ski to put on your list is the Rossi Scratch BC. Has the same 90mm waist as the PR's.
post #10 of 21
Bs"D

Yeah, power steering is right - mushy and soft with out precsion or firmness.
Sorry, but in my opinion the Pocket Rockets were too soft, and the tips were over powered. They are quick, but that's about it. Unless you are a very light skier, you better demo them frist.
For any non-featherweights, the Legend 8800s are pleasingly stiffer (but not too stiff) giving more float in the powder and much better power through crud - while still being plenty manueverable.
I'm still anxious to hear from people that have tested the im88 to compare to the 8800.
post #11 of 21
RadRab... I am a 210 lb easy skier. I ski the 185 Pr's. I get plenty of float, and make nice easy turns. What you describe about the soft tips sounds like 'hooking' - if you are going real fast and make a sudden sharp turn, the flex that is meant to keep the tips afloat, can create a hooked turn when turned on edge.

What length of PR did you try? Are you an aggressive skier? Just wondering.

You are not alone in thinking that Pr's are too soft. But I did, and always will recommend a demo. I can't see putting out big money for a ski without a demo. Then demo shop at my local ski slope allows swapping skis all day for about $45. And there is usually a free demo day during the season. Several people 'regular skiers' that I know that demoed the Pr's were so delighted that they purchased the demo skis. When I first skied the PR, my first thought was that I was not going back to my old skis.

The 8800 sounds like a ski that I would want to demo. Here is a review worth reading:
http://www.footloosesports.com/revie...le.php?prid=62

It mentions.... "....[the 8800] Like Salomon’s Pocket Rocket, it’s not quite burly enough for super high-speed skiing in chunky or firmer snow- ...." and "......This ski was very popular with women and smaller skiers in the 158 size- possibly because of the more relaxed sidecut. Other skis tout technology and complexity while the Legend 8800 is just a great, versatile all-mountain ski. Heavier and more aggressive skiers should ski this one long. Compare to the Salomon Pocket Rocket, Rossignol B3 or Scratch BC, and (for the ladies) the K2 Phat Luv....."

All of these skis are my kind of ski. They make skiing fun!
post #12 of 21

RadRab

Bs"D
Yes, it's true, I skied the PR too short @ 165cm, and I am a fairly aggressive skier and also not a lightweight at 175lbs. So, perhaps I would have liked it better @ 175cm. Nevertheless, my 8800 @ 178 is great, and although the review you mentioned compares it to the PR, I found that it is stiffer, independent of length. The problem for me w/ the PR was not hooking. I simply overpowered the tips. I like Austrian race type skis. Even in powder, I still want to feel some firmness in the shovel. It makes the most difference in crud.
But, I still want to hear comparisons to the new im88, which promises to be perhaps as good in powder and crud while measurably better on piste.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by COpow77
I've been looking to upgrade from my current all-mountain skis to a wider powder ski and am looking for something that will be sweet in boot-knee deep plus, but also somthing that won't be a bear off the powder. (so something with a bit of side cut) I'm a Colorado skier, like to ski trees, bowls, powder; I am 6'0" 195 lbs. a 7/8 skier. Looking for something with a bit of softness for powder and something a bit lighter than what I've been sking (Vokels). I've looked at Solomon Pocket Rockets, Rossi B3 Bandits, Atomic Sugar Daddys and Metron 12, Head mojo and Head Monster i.M (the last two based on salesman reccomendations). Any thoughts on these or others that might fit what I'm looking for?
Check the Stockli Stormrider DPs out. They have a race construction, but are fat, dimensions T125mm W94mm T111mm. They also have an aysmmetric flex. Take a look at their site http://www.stoeckli.ch/index_en.html, choose Freeride then the Stormrider DP. When you have the ski with the black area at the tail on the inside edge, this stiffens the ski and makes it better on piste, when in the fresh swap 'em over so the black areas are on the outside and the ski is softer. It's a carbon insert so it does stiffen the ski.

I've not actually skied them, but have spoken to industry pros who say there IS a difference. It's what I am skiing on this season, hope it works!

I have however skied other versions of the Stormrider, and like all Stockli skis, they are powerful. I used last seasons Stormrider DP and can confirm that it was really good on piste, kinda like a DH ski.
post #14 of 21
Sierra Trading Post has the 1080s and Pocket Rockets on their web site for $400 if anyone is interested.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifordad
mantra or im88
I have skied both and like both very much.

The im88 is a bit softer and has a bit more sidecut. It is a bit quicker as well. But the mantra is a more powerful ski and seems to be a bit better in crud and mixed conditions. In the powder I liked the firmness of the Mantra, On the trail and on the groomed, the im88 is a bit more versitle.
post #16 of 21

RadRab

Bs"D

Thanks for that comparison. Now if you had also skied the Legend 8800, we could complete the circle.
Did you get to try the im88 on hardpack or even ice? If so, how did it hold?
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw
Legend 8800?
That would be my vote or the pros!
post #18 of 21
Bros.
Pros for half the price.

http://www.pmgearusa.com/bromodelf.htm
post #19 of 21
Here is a little story on how a guy delaminated an 8800 ski - ten days old.
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boa...opic.php?t=826
post #20 of 21
Bs"D
Ruxpercnd,
I don't know what you want to say from this, but it doesn't seem that you want to trash the great reputation of the 8800 out of some PR jealousy or something, because you yourself said "The 8800 sounds like a ski that I would want to demo." Furthermore, and even more relevant, the guy from the story you gave us the link for loves the 8800, doesn't blame the ski for the delamination, and actually bought another pair! See quotes from your link below:
"they skied like a dream"
"since i enjoyed skiing it so much, i guess i probably should have mounted regular bingings on them and got another board for the AT rig"
"...i just was analyzing the damage. when flexing the ski, i became very convinced the ski's construction was not at fault, but rather the heavy amount of flex i was utilizing combined with the freeride binding itself."
"...i snagged another pair. they might have gone lower in a few months, but with a ski that has generated as much buzz as this one has, i didn't want to chance it. i love it that much. gonna do the responsible thing though and toss a pair of look bindings on this pair and re-evaluate my backcountry setup".
As I have said above, I also love the 8800 and think it is one of the most versatile powder skis on the market. BTW, another quote from that guy attesting to the versatility of the 8800 for the groomed: "...today i let em' rip, ... big carving arcs on the groomed with full application of the sidecut were no problem, utilitzing some forward lean and applying flex to make some quick turns felt good."
However, I still want to demo, and for now, hear additioinal reviews on the new Head im88, as it, on paper, sounds like an even more versatile model. The one thing that the 8800 lacks is grip on ice (and of course doesn't carve with the precision and power of a real carving technician like a race ski or their derivitives). The early reviews on the im88 is that it carves like a GS or Cross ski - even on ice. If it is as good in the powder as the 8800 - which the same reviews claim it is - then wow! what a ski!
8800 = 117/89/110 (25r @ 178cm)
im88 = 126/88/112 (19.2r @ 175)
post #21 of 21
I just like to get all the information I can on a ski and I thought the delam story on the 8800 was somewhat interesting. One story doesn't make a judgement on a ski. Personally, I think a skier can abuse any ski eqiuipment if he wants to.

I would be very interested to read any stories on PR delamination. To be fair I should have mentioned that Pocket Rockets have delaminated at the tip and every once in a while you will see PR's with tip rivets installed. I have an old pair of Tua skis that have totally delaminated from the binding to the tail.

Skiing on ice: I learned to ski on boilerplate. So, I am not intimidated, like some of my friends are, by ice. On narrower skis, I can use them like ice skates, even coming to a full stop, just hanging by an edge, even on a steep slope. On the wider skis, I can still use the edges, but to a lesser extent. I found that doing a full stop-edge-hang on a steep boilerplate slope was just about impossible.

My worst experience on ice on, wide skis was with re-freezing at the end of the day, leaving death cookies and chicken heads along with a trail turn at the bottom of a steep slope. The only hope of staying upright was to go real slow. Basically, a wide ski is likely over-span a chunk of ice, giving the ski an unstable sideways tilt, and its impossible to re-adjust balance when moving at speed.

Very simply, wide skis are not good ice grippers at speed and narrow skis aren't good in powder and crud. For where I ski, I would choose the wide skis.
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