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Hurricane (Again) & the two sides of the USA? - Page 6

post #151 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrjax
You're not paying attention. My contention is that many people, even people of means, choose to stay. I don't know why this is so, but it is. It's that way in Jacksonville, I have to assume it's the same in New Orleans. Afterall, as my long-departed aunt used to say "folks is folks".
I understand that part. someone who chooses to stay KNOWING how bad it will be isn't the first person to receive my empathy.

but do you think they KNEW how bad it would be? apparently the Nawlins Mayor and the Governor of Louisiana didn't.

as an aside, I had friends who hung out in Ocean City MD and Rehoboth Beach DE during Hurricane Agnes in 1973. sometimes, human naivete is pretty powerful.
post #152 of 171
Unfortunately, Gonzostrike, a common lament after a hurricane is "we didn't think it would be this bad". All hurricanes must be respected; they are extremely powerful storms. Too often people will only recall the time that they evacuated and all we got was "a little rain and wind". People in Jacksonville think that we're hurricane-proof beacuse we haven't had a direct hit in 40 years. I just don't understand that attitude.
post #153 of 171
One of my Dad's good friends stayed. He took what he believed was a calculated risk. He sent his family away and decided to stay since he's a fairly important guy and wanted to be around to help his community. He stayed because he was told (rightly) that the storm was down to Cat 3 and because it was only going to graze the city. He was told (wrongly) that the levees would hold. Hindsight is perfect. He should have left. I don't know if he was stupid to stay. He was mistaken. Is that the same thing? He wasn't surfing or partying.
post #154 of 171
The surfing/partying reference, while true, was intended as hyperbole. People stay for various reasons. Few of them, in my opinion, are good reasons. He did take a "calculated risk". But, I guess it's up to him to decide if his reason for staying was good enough. He was, however, smart enough to get his family out. Unfortunately, you're right, hindsight is always 20/20. But then again, people always complain when the storm misses, and they were evacuated "for no good reason".
post #155 of 171
Thread Starter 

Am I a Cynic

Has anyone seen any official numbers on deaths. I haven't seen anything ?
post #156 of 171
Official but not final body count in MS is 147 and will rise. New Orleans, people are speculating could exceed 10,000. This is by far the worst natural disaster in U.S. history from the perspective of cost and deaths. Remember you will hear cost mostly expressed as total insured losses (i.e. $25 billion USD) The total cost of infrastructure, lost incomes, uninsured (flood) losses etc, could top $100 Billion.
post #157 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
Official but not final body count in MS is 147 and will rise. New Orleans, people are speculating could exceed 10,000. This is by far the worst natural disaster in U.S. history from the perspective of cost and deaths. Remember you will hear cost mostly expressed as total insured losses (i.e. $25 billion USD) The total cost of infrastructure, lost incomes, uninsured (flood) losses etc, could top $100 Billion.
In lives, Galveston's 1900 hurricane killed at least 6000 people -- let us hope Katrina doesn't top that.

Of course, none of this comes close to that big flood in Bangladesh in the early 70s. I think the death count was close to a million. I think there was also a typhoon in the Philippines that killed half a million people. A little perspective.
post #158 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
I wonder why Bush vetoed the 2002 money requested by the Corps of Engineers for dike repair. They ended up with only 20% of the amount requested.
Perhaps it was a bad choice in words, but Bush has never vetoed anything. That has been a major criticism of him from both the left and right.
post #159 of 171
A friend of mine, former Army Corps of Engineers, told me that it was widely known, for at least the last twenty years, that the existing system of levees around New Orleans could "probably" withstand a category three storm, at most. They (the Corps) have been requesting money for years to make upgrades, but had continually been bogged down in requests for feasability studies, etc. Since the major gulf storms seemed to miss New Orleans public officials had developed a false sense of security.
post #160 of 171
There were 1000 Wisconsin Natioal Guard within 50 miles of New Orleans before the storm hit. I learned Friday (I knew on Tuesday they were there) that they were not used and 500 troops from here were sent(Friday) because the military didn't want to interupt their scheduled deployment to Iraq.
I haven't read the whole thread. Did anyone point out that FEMA, in April 2001, identified a levy brach in New Orleans as one of the three highest disaster risks?(along with a terrorist attack in NY City and major earthquake in San Francisco)
I've also heard that there's a letter out from the governor of LA, dated before the storm hit, requesting 30,000 National Guard troops.
post #161 of 171
I work 70 hrs a weel, I own my own business and I'm still not a have. I'm sick and tired of people thinking someone is holding them back. Work hard don't spend your money on booze and cigarettes and maybe you'll get ahead!!! Every society will have people that bust their asses and those who don't!
post #162 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
I work 70 hrs a weel, I own my own business and I'm still not a have. I'm sick and tired of people thinking someone is holding them back. Work hard don't spend your money on booze and cigarettes and maybe you'll get ahead!!! Every society will have people that bust their asses and those who don't!
An odd observation: During the worst of the late evacuations, I noticed that the starving, dehydrated vicitms were smoking cigarettes! No food, No water, but I got smokes!
post #163 of 171
That is also an observation I've made. They would be considered affluent in 95% of the rest of the world. Some people just don't want to work hard and aren't smart about saving money. Some people have too many children when they should have none. People should take responsibility for them selves. The order was to get out of town, they didn't. If they were told there was $100,000 waiting for them when they got out of town they would have found a way to do it!
post #164 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
I work 70 hrs a weel, I own my own business and I'm still not a have. I'm sick and tired of people thinking someone is holding them back. Work hard don't spend your money on booze and cigarettes and maybe you'll get ahead!!! Every society will have people that bust their asses and those who don't!
thanks for being so angry at everyone else when apparently you are the one who lacks SOMEthing, if you talk/write as the above, and as in your follow-up post.

physician, heal thyself.
post #165 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by rquick
Perhaps it was a bad choice in words, but Bush has never vetoed anything. That has been a major criticism of him from both the left and right.
Thanks for the correction. Here is an excellent article that clarifies the details of the levy funding, or lack of funding.

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/articl...50904150349174

nate
post #166 of 171
Very interesting article, uglymoney. Seems to confirm what my friend, a former employee of the Army Corps of Engineers, said regarding the recent history of the New Orleans levee system. According to him it was widely known for the last twenty to thirty years that New Orleans would be sumberged in a storm greater than category 3. Of course, he wasn't even certain it could withstand a category 3. He also agreed that many Corps projects were viewed skeptically due to a history of chronic cost overruns and pork-barrel projects. He spoke of one long-serving senator who was constantly rewarding his state with highway, bridge and dam projects that were of questionable value. I'm sure that when the "smoke clears" there will be plenty of finger-pointing.
post #167 of 171
I'm starting to sound like a broken record.
#1 previously posted thought MM thread: When you exagerate and lie folks don't believe you when you are telling the truth. That article points out that the corps has been caught in the past overblowing costs (probably so that even if not fully funded for the asked for amount they would still be able to do the job and build a marina to boot.
#2. previously posted thought: Can someone please explain to me why it is, or was, the FEDERAL gov't's responsibility to keep NOLA dry??? Or to help fund re-building?? 8th killer 'cane in 105 years = ~1 every 12 years. Can new York State save up 12 years snowplowing bills and then send DC a claim for Natural Disaster relief??
post #168 of 171
Since a large percentage of our oil and gas, plus refined petroleum, comes into and is dispersed through there, I'd say it's in everyone's(our nation's) interest that things keep working there. Not to mention the rich heritage and uniqueness of New Orleans.
I'd be surprised if the death toll isn't much higher than Sept 11th. Does the fact that these are mostly poor people make it any less tragic? They laugh, they cry and they die just like everyone else. I can't believe the insensitivity. :

1. Bin Laden determined to attack United States ("who would of thought they'd fly airplanes into buildings" for one a hijacker who tried to kill Nixon)
2."We'll be greeted as liberators, with sweets and flowers"
3. "Nobody thought the levies would fail"

I'd always heard it was "three strikes and you're out"
post #169 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stache
8th killer 'cane in 105 years = ~1 every 12 years. Can new York State save up 12 years snowplowing bills and then send DC a claim for Natural Disaster relief??
105 divided by 12 does not equal 8. maybe you meant 1 every 13 1/8 years. :
post #170 of 171
Here's an article in today's Sydney Morning Herald, one of Australia's major broadsheets. It's actually taken from The Guardian, in the UK.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/f...772459288.html
post #171 of 171
Bklyntrayc response to Mr Barrett:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bklyntrayc
You think Bonni is a 'liberal'!

Ahh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ahhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Time to delete this thread. It's friday night and I have friends in town for the long weekend. It's time to count our blessings and share with those who are not so lucky.


kinda shows ya how far off the scale this guy really is---doesn't it??:
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