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Extreme Skiers - Where do they come from? - Page 4

post #91 of 107
Actually, I don't want to hear about what Hucker was the first to go down on!

Ghost, you mocked hop turners, so I turned it around. We are both kidding each other, no hard feelings, I hope.
post #92 of 107
Oh humour! Har, har (in Morc from ork voice).

No hard feelings.

Sorry, I didn't mean to mock anyone. I was just trying to seperate the two things that may draw one to two seperate "extemes". I have no doubt that to hop-turners as you call them it's a lot like climbing down a rock-cliff. I'm not a climber, but I enjoy picking my way up and down the odd cliff when hiking or cliff-jumping into the lake/quarry. I can see a certain appeal to "mountain climbing" on skis. It's the sort of thing that would cause people to take up ice climbing. It's not the same as hurtling down a fast chute or hucking a cliff. I think the appeal in jumping off a 60 foot cliff at the quarry and a 60 foot cliff on skis is similar. That appeal I can relate to, it's the butteflys in the stomach of weightlessness, and the thrill of speed. That thrill, I can get going down a chute or a near-cliff in a figure 11.
post #93 of 107
I don't know that a chute that can be run straight is extreme terrain. Bode running slalom or Tanner in the pipe is "extreme", but traditionally extreme skiing means skiing "you fall, you die" terrain. Hucking (gosh, I hate that word) cliffs and straight running chutes is another kind of extreme skiing.

Competitions held on terrain that dozens of competitors could survive quickly changed name from extreme championship to freeskiing competition and rightly so.
post #94 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
How does an extreme skier happen? Its natural to be afraid of heights and extreme speed. Overcoming those fears is to conquer basic instinct. Some of us have trouble on an unstable ladder, a roof, water slides or roller coasters . Why are there so many young people today that can decent 45 degree plus slopes at high speed with major drop offs, cornices, couloirs or cliff lines? Did they get dropped as infants? Bunjee jump as teens? Why does a 20+ foot drop make my stomach churn with the sure knowledge this is deadly, and make an extreme skier salivate with the prospect of a huck? Getting over the fear of certain death is a major hindrance to my skiing success.:

Some of you do it, some of you have kids that do. I'm looking for answers. What is your limit?
I'm not so sure the original post was referring to ''you fall you die" terrain. I was trying to speak to the original post. However, I like the "you fall you die" part of your definition of "extreme".

BTW a chute that requires course corrections taken at high speed qualifies under that definition, whereas that same chute taken at slow speed with knowledge of self-arrest does not.

Where does "you fall - you get seriously mangled, but live " fall into your definitions of skiing?

Would the short video of the backflip 80-foot drop count as extreme? (probably not; it's survivable with that powder and slope)
post #95 of 107
I have skied with a few well known Xtreme skiers. A local guy I ski with just finished another sick flick. These guys are exceptional skiers with a hair trigger. They like this type of skiing others do not. I have jumped off a few small cliffs 20-30 feet. It was fun but not why I ski.
post #96 of 107
True, Cirquerider doesn't know what extreme skiing means.

You fall, you die. There are a lot of dead guys that fell. I don't condone extreme skiing but do the lines they died on before you claim to be an extreme skier. Otherwise enjoy freeskiing, hucking (ugh, that word again) dropping a cornice or sliding a rail in the park. It's all extreme if you drink enough mountain dew.
post #97 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
I'm not so sure the original post was referring to ''you fall you die" terrain. I was trying to speak to the original post. However, I like the "you fall you die" part of your definition of "extreme".

BTW a chute that requires course corrections taken at high speed qualifies under that definition, whereas that same chute taken at slow speed with knowledge of self-arrest does not.

Where does "you fall - you get seriously mangled, but live " fall into your definitions of skiing?

Would the short video of the backflip 80-foot drop count as extreem? (probably not; it's survivable with that powder and slope)
Ghost, the "you fall you die" terrain is true extreme skiing. The risks are tremendous. This spring and summer, I skied steep terrain that terminates in talus and boulders, that would do a lot of damage if you fell. Steep enough that I could not walk up the snow fields without crampons, or digging in toe steps, and the rock at the edges was too steep to climb. (Ever slid down a scree slope?) To me, steep is OK, as long as I have my feet on the ground, and a good edge. But to risk life and limb for a skiing aerial stunt is beyond my ability and comprehension. I see it in the films and wonder...How? Why? Who would do this?

That was my original thought in posting this thread. There is something innate in my psyche that will not allow me to drop over an unseen edge, even though I know it is doable (is that a word?). I have launched the 10 to 15 foot drops onto soft powder where I am very familiar with the terrain, but I have trouble followng a buddy over an unknown edge, even though he makes it. So, I am a coward when it comes to free-fall.

I remember as a kid, my friends and I would climb a tree onto a neighbor's garage, and dare each other to drop off. The ground sloped from one end to the other. I remember it was pretty easy to drop the north end of the garage, but you just about swallowed your knees to drop the south end. That was about 15 feet on flat. The idea of launching a 20 foot air at my age is simply incomprehensible. So, I guess I started the thread to try and better comprehend how the average skier is working up to bigger challenges. As the thread progressed, I got comfortable with the idea that perhaps we can be extreme in our own mind; and let it go at that.
post #98 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
True, Cirquerider doesn't know what extreme skiing means.

You fall, you die. There are a lot of dead guys that fell. I don't condone extreme skiing but do the lines they died on before you claim to be an extreme skier. Otherwise enjoy freeskiing, hucking (ugh, that word again) dropping a cornice or sliding a rail in the park. It's all extreme if you drink enough mountain dew.
I can LIVE with that. I do know what extreme means, because I have watched others drop the cliffs above Glory Hole at Alta and have been just amazed at the risks others are willing to take, that make me turn around. My claim to fame is that I first skied Corbets in 1975 as well as a number of BC shots at Beaver mtn Utah and Logan Peak. I even accidently launched a 40 foot air at Alta off a cat track in a blizzard. Back then, that was pretty good stuff.
post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
I don't know (nor care) much about Plake, but are you kidding about Schmidt??? :
suspect you might be a bit turned off by the mohawk? Suggest strongly you hunt down some of the Greg Stump films from the late 80's......then you'll feel differently about Plake. Gotta get past the mohawk.....and the hype. He can ski...just a bit. He visited my little hill (yawgoo valley ri)during his tour of the usa in the early 90's and kicked all of our arses.....

Nice guy too....wacked, but regular. The real deal.

Big air?

Huge.

(big hair too)

real huge
post #100 of 107
From wikipedia:

"Extreme skiing is skiing performed on steep (typically over 60 degrees) and or dangerous terrain. Often, the sport is performed off-piste.

Extreme skiing as a term has changed since the 80's when the term "extreme skiing" was coined to now be classified under Big Mountain skiing and/or Freeskiing which encompases all aspects and methods of decending off-piste terrain."

I think I like Telerod's defn. better.

AS to the original question Trampolines! Too much time on trampolines, that's what bends their psychi.
post #101 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrstrat57
suspect you might be a bit turned off by the mohawk? Suggest strongly you hunt down some of the Greg Stump films from the late 80's......then you'll feel differently about Plake. Gotta get past the mohawk.....and the hype. He can ski...just a bit. He visited my little hill (yawgoo valley ri)during his tour of the usa in the early 90's and kicked all of our arses.....

Nice guy too....wacked, but regular. The real deal.

Big air?

Huge.

(big hair too)

real huge
hrstrat:

I have seen him ski. 'Nuff said.

He has great hair and he's a very shrewd (connived?) marketer.

And apparently, as you say, a very nice guy.
post #102 of 107

Fyi

Slope Steepness Info.

The standard set for the steepest slopes (double blacks) in recreational ski areas is 30 to 35 degrees.

For the purpose of this discussion, a "sluff" will be considered a small loose snow avalanche. Often the sluff will be the result of a series of point releases in the starting zone. The depth of the layer, for manageable sluffs to which this paper refers, can range from 3 to 15 cm. Skiable slopes likely to sluff range from 40 to 60 degrees. Observed speeds, estimated in the field, range from 5 to 25 meters/second. The density of the snow involved is typically 5 to 15%. The snow is new snow, decomposing precipitation particles, or near surface faceted crystals.


Steepness Ratings 0-7 with +/- qualifiers
S0 Flat terrain. A golf course.
S1 Low angle - possibly poling in places.
S1+ Beginning terrain at a ski area. Safe run outs.
S2 25 degrees slopes. “Intermediate” terrain at a ski area.
S2+ Slopes at or near 25 degrees with some terrain features
S3- Slopes up to 30 degrees.
S3 Slopes up to 35 degrees. “Expert” runs at ski areas.
S3+ Slopes at or near 35 degrees with terrain features that require maneuvering
S4- Slopes 35-45 degrees with safe run outs and little to no terrain features
S4 Slopes 35-45 degrees with dangerous fall potential and terrain obstacles
S4+ Slopes just under 45 degrees that are continuous, have fall consequences and terrain obstacles
S5- Slopes that are continuously at or near 45 degrees or slightly over
S5 Slopes between 45-55 degrees. Falling est forbotten.
S5+ Slopes at or around 55 degrees. You’d be lucky to live through a fall.
S6- Short sections that are steeper then 55 degrees, yet continously above 50 degrees.
S6 Slopes continuously steeper than 55 degrees. Slow death from falling highly likely.
S6+ 55ish degree slopes with major obstacles - cliffs, trees, crevasses
S7 60 degree slopes. Just plain ol’ steep as hell.
S7+ 60 degree slopes with nasty obstacles. A quick and certain death if you fall.
S8 The future. Scary.
post #103 of 107
Good info slider.
Anyone know the upper limit for grooming without a cable?
post #104 of 107
Well I'm no expert on such matters. I have drove trucks off of +25 % grades(Rifle,Co.) which was about as steep as I would do without a couple of D-10's hooked up. Then up to 32%. Snowcat maybe 40% grade. Sorry don't know the % to degree conversion.
post #105 of 107
Groomed trails will be S3 max. 30 degrees equals 50% grade.
post #106 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
Where does "you fall - you get seriously mangled, but live " fall into your definitions of skiing?
and what about the role that practice and happenstance play in the degree of injury resulting from the fall? eh? inquiring minds NEED to know.
post #107 of 107
Intersting perspective in this thread.
In france, extreme skiing (= ski extrème) is a term coined in the 70's with people like Sylvain Saudan, Patrick Vallençant or Anselme Baud. It all started in 67 when Saudan skied the couloir Spencer. (actualy it dates back to 1935, when Schintlmeister and Krügler descended Hochten's north face, 45° !). I think the popularity of 'ski extreme' (as a 'show', not a common practice !) reached a peak in the mid 70's. I've still vivid memories of the films I saw on french TV as a kid at that time.
It didn't involve huge cliff jumps or high speeds, but, as someone pointed out, 'hop turning' and incredibely STEEP terrain. That's, btw, the term now favored for such practice : 'pente raide' = steep terrain.
It's strange for a frenchman of my generation to associate names like Plake, Gaidet, even Jamie Pierre (and Tanner Hall...) to 'extreme'. For me they are freeriders. Not extreme skiers.
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