New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Grade this thread

Poll Results: What course number would you give the Waisteering thread?

 
  • 10% (2)
    100
  • 0% (0)
    200
  • 10% (2)
    300
  • 26% (5)
    400
  • 52% (10)
    500
19 Total Votes  
post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Recently we've been talking about giving some kind of forewarning to newbies about threads in the Technique & Instruction forum that discuss the finest points of technique. Someone suggested we follow the college example and use the 100-200-300-400-500+ (graduate) course numbering system. With that in mind, I thought it might be fun to have a poll to see where we place the 5-star, multipage Waisteering thread: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=28471
post #2 of 24
I'm giving this a graduate course level, not because of the difficulty, but because of the amount of special interest required in order to wade through it.
post #3 of 24
Nolo,
201-301
Too complicated for most because of the multi-syllabic grandeloquence. When the new shorthand abbreviations started to appear, that should have been a clue that even for the participants the terminology was becoming an inconvenience. As Rick pointed out reading too much into the diagrams and mis-use of terms confused the whole debate. If we are searching for an effective common language maybe we should stop trying to use so many terms. I agree that backing up a statement with the hard science is important. However, minimizing this predisposition towards jargon would allow the presentation of the concepts to happen more efficiently. In my opinion, that is the sign of skilled communications, the sharing of an idea as simply as possible.
Perhaps the best example of this I can share is a clinic Dogger did a few years ago. His feedback to me was simple but on target, "You bend at the waist too much." One syllable words and a whole day focus without the technobabble less skilled communicators use. The prescriptions he suggested were just as simple and easy to understand.
Addition in editing: I feel I am part of the problem because I need to work on this as much as anyone participating in that thread.
post #4 of 24
Look at post 365, it illustrates my point. After 365 posts the confusion remains...
post #5 of 24
I graded it as a graduate course. But I have only read a few of the posts. Completely uninteresting and irrelevant to me.

I'm not complaining. I'm glad that such discussions exist, but I'm not interested in reading them. Maybe, when everything gets sorted out, something will filter down to me.
post #6 of 24
It seems quite specialized to me. More specialization, higher level. FWIW, I haven't waded into it, yet. It was already too long for me when I found it the first time!
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
It seems quite specialized to me. More specialization, higher level.
Steve, not sure about that second statement as a general rule. If the clauses were reversed, I would agree.
post #8 of 24
The thread is definitely an upper-level discussion of skiing... more specifically ski racing.

Much like a discussion regarding shaving 1/1000th of a second off a top fuel dragster run has little to do with daily driving, the intricacies of waist steering are of VERY limited benefit to those not interested in improving their time in gates... in this case GS and "speed" events in particular. Racing\competition strategy and tactics are advanced level concepts in any sport or other endeavor.

The concept has some merit for "daily skiing" as another tactic to throw in the quiver, but using it as a means to enter the lift queue 1/1000th of a second faster than the next guy is not worth the wasted bandwidth.

I've debated unsprung weight, spring rates, alignment issues, etc. with other racers and "track guys". There are suspension settings that work best for the widely varying conditions of street driving, and those that work best in specialized racing environments. (As a side note, I don't believe in street racing.) A skier's legs can be somewhat analogous to the suspension of a race car and the line taken through a road course, so I think the waist steering thread is a great one and I'm enjoying its progression. Wouldn't expect everyone to, however.
post #9 of 24

My rating

Being one of the main particpants I thought I'd throw in here.

The discussion has morphed from a sometimes heated debate to a detailed analytical discussion on the modern ski racing turn.

During the debate phase many high level topics were explored such as physics, biomechanics, anatomy and kinesiology.

Due to the depth, length and specialized topic I've graded it a level 500 but believe any racing enthusiast would find it a valuable read, if not a bit hard to follow as the group defined its own nomeclature.

Thanks to EpicSki.com for hosting this thread and all of the member/supporters that has made it the mother of all ski tech threads! And it is still going strong!
post #10 of 24
Very high level.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Please let's not turn this into a debate about the merits of the thread--I want to know if there's consensus about what level course the thread might be, if we used the college model.
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Snake oil. Infomercial. -500
Off topic, but quickly..

A little bit of an infomercial, no doubt... but I believe Gary and Tommy sincerely believe in what they are promoting. Nothing wrong with that if you want to convince others of something's merit.

Otherwise he would have signed on as MuscleHead Professor and just kept repeated "buy my product". He hinted once or twice, but that was it.

edit: sorry Nolo I posted before reading your post about staying on point.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
S'allright, medmarkco.
post #14 of 24
I only gave this a 400. Brace yourselves, it can get worse.

I agree with Jasper that we must always strive to simplify the language we use. Poor communicators take kindergarten level concepts and present them so they're beyond the comprehension of a college professor. Great communicators do just the opposite. As teachers our goal should always be the latter.

We're here to breakdown and understand what on first discovery seems complicated, then try to formulate a way to simplify it into easily communicated concepts. What a great training ground this forum provides for refining that ability.

This statement says it all;
Quote:
PVnRT says: I graded it as a graduate course. But I have only read a few of the posts. Completely uninteresting and irrelevant to me.

I'm not complaining. I'm glad that such discussions exist, but I'm not interested in reading them. Maybe, when everything gets sorted out, something will filter down to me.
post #15 of 24
I stayed with it for a long time and initially awarded it five stars. But after it went further and further above my head I changed the rating downward. Whenever it's over, someone write up Cliff Notes, okay?
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Almost 60% of poll respondents to date consider Waisteering a graduate level thread; it seems to be more and more interesting to less and less people, sort of like a grad course.

Could the Cliff Notes, if they ever get written, be of interest to regular skiers, or does the topic limit itself to a specific race-oriented audience?
post #17 of 24

Making sense of the MSRT Thread - widening our audience!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
Almost 60% of poll respondents to date consider Waisteering a graduate level thread; it seems to be more and more interesting to less and less people, sort of like a grad course.

Could the Cliff Notes, if they ever get written, be of interest to regular skiers, or does the topic limit itself to a specific race-oriented audience?
Brillant minds think a like. We (Rick, Tommy and I, and please keep in mind that there is no formal relationship so don't jump on poor old Rick, keep the flaming at me) are getting ready to boil down the almost 400 Posts to a clean synopsis using an accepted "nomeclature". We will try to avoid jargon, needlessly complicated constructs, and acronym's that nobody knows. Give us just a bit to get it done!

As Mark Twain reportedly once said "I would make my letter shorter if I only had the time"

I believe then we can lower the rating considerably, the goal would be to a level 100 and 200 audience,,,,,

Thanks NOLO!
post #18 of 24
I want to know who the joker is that rated it 100.:

This is the problem with polls (not poLEs). Anyone can skew the results by being flippant.
post #19 of 24
I was thinking post-graduate:

Graduate degree = generalist (knows very little about a great deal)
Post-graduate = specialist (knows a great deal about very little)

When it has run its course a précis is required.
post #20 of 24
If the Cliff Notes are written, I will read them. I stuck it out for several 100 posts, but finally it was just too much to grasp.
post #21 of 24

MSRT Cliff Notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
If the Cliff Notes are written, I will read them. I stuck it out for several 100 posts, but finally it was just too much to grasp.
Sib, we are working on it. We are getting ready to close down this portion of the discussion and give the thread a fresh springboard to move forward in a more digestable form.

Right now I am reviewing everyone's post (partly to be fair in apportioning MMB's) and putting up what I felt their best quotes or subjects are

Member Post Review
post #22 of 24
The best teachers can boil it down to simplistic terms and explanations.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
The best teachers can boil it down to simplistic terms and explanations.
While I agree with the above content, the thread seems to be aimed at instructors and especially, racers and coaches.
post #24 of 24

Simple things sometimes the hardest to explain, breaking new ground

Quote:
Originally Posted by lennyblake
While I agree with the above content, the thread seems to be aimed at instructors and especially, racers and coaches.
BINGO, we are actually fleshing this out for mass consumption, good observation Lenny! For those who don't have time to wade through the 400 plus post marathan, stay tuned, its about to be presented in a logical, understanable and simply format.

Working,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home