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Gender Revisited - Page 4

post #91 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisamarie
Altagirl, why in heaven's name don't you teach?? You would be awesome!!!!
Heh, I just drag my newbie friends and friends spouses around and try and help them out when I can. (Sometimes I need a break from being dragged around by my husband and friends who kick my butt.)
post #92 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by altagirl
I know I've felt the paralyzing fear you're talking about, but I almost always am able to push through it and do what I was afraid of. Sometimes it takes me a while, and sometimes it's with really ugly form because I'm too afraid to relax, but it rarely keeps me from trying altogether. For me it's mostly about visualization. For example, when racing DH mountain bikes, there was a course last year with a 2-stage obstacle I couldn't get myself to fully try in practice. But I visualized it all night long, went out for the race and nailed it. It's that combination of pressure to have to do it and mental preparation that gets me through.
altagirl - i'd guess that if you can push through it you have not had teh fear ant means......

I know when I get it I am pretty much unable to move & often to do so means I just plonk down & start crying..... when you consider I am normally a very LOGICAL person sitting on snow crying is a VERY silly response.... the other option is to develop "parkinsons" (my instructors description) where I can't really move but in trying not to freeze I move my head back & forth (go/don't go/go/don't go.... ) sort of like a robot in some stupid loop......

My instructors recognise the "oh NO" look & try to get me skiing PAST the obstacle before the freeze sets in - because then I won't even be able to ski the easy route down let alone what I don't want to ski....

One has worked out I prefer to ski UP & down again.... rather than DOWN.... so we ski my nemesis cornice area this way(long turn UP... then turn DOWN)..... over time I am coming to realise that I CAN turn on the beast I dislike....
post #93 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I'll second that.

Modifying comfort zones is a crucial factor in realizing improvement in skiing. I'm a big proponent of that belief, but the methodology for making those modifications is where many go astray. It's not about pushing someone to ski terrain they feel is over their head. It's about helping them expand their skill base on terrain they perceive as easy, so that enhanced levels of confidence in ones technical abilities serves to transform from within how more difficult terrain registers on their intimidation scale.

Comfort zones should be expanded, not violated.


This is pretty much the only thing that works with me..... slowly letting my body/brain learn that they DO KNOW what to do....

One instructor taught me to "jump" (get skis off snow) by having me ski the resort road..... the oversnow would make the road get ripples in it..... he had me ski the ripples...... until I was happy with balance..... then he had me "bounce" on the ripples......

then he tried to get me to jump - no go (it was a tiny jump nice run out)..... so he worked out I did not like the idea of running STRAIGHT at something(I dislike flat skis & prefer to be on an edge)..... so we practiced skiing AROUND that jump..... but on ever straighter lines..... until we found a very slight edge I could accept to the jump & then flatten & then jump.....

My otther insttructor got : when he found I jumped (he did not like that instructor)..... because he had been trying to get me to jump for years!

My canadian instructor ha sthe idea down pat - he gets me to jump a small jump.... but gets sneaky about how far uphill he releases me from & I suddenly find I have jumped MORE than expected..... he is smart enough to make the increases SMALL though.... just enough for me to notice - not enough for terror
post #94 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
altagirl - i'd guess that if you can push through it you have not had teh fear ant means......

I know when I get it I am pretty much unable to move & often to do so means I just plonk down & start crying..... when you consider I am normally a very LOGICAL person sitting on snow crying is a VERY silly response.... the other option is to develop "parkinsons" (my instructors description) where I can't really move but in trying not to freeze I move my head back & forth (go/don't go/go/don't go.... ) sort of like a robot in some stupid loop......

My instructors recognise the "oh NO" look & try to get me skiing PAST the obstacle before the freeze sets in - because then I won't even be able to ski the easy route down let alone what I don't want to ski....

One has worked out I prefer to ski UP & down again.... rather than DOWN.... so we ski my nemesis cornice area this way(long turn UP... then turn DOWN)..... over time I am coming to realise that I CAN turn on the beast I dislike....
I believe that there's a big difference between our fear levels, but my level of fear still isn't nearly the same as an average guy's I don't think. I've tried explaining to my husband that in the start gate for a race I feel panicky, like I've lost all my strength. It's like the adrenaline rush just makes me nervous and weak. He has no comprehension of what I'm talking about.

Honestly, the best results I've had came from either convincing myself mentally that race runs are just another ride, or telling myself over and over again that "adrenaline makes me feel strong" - I visualize the old feeling and changing it at will. I'm still not great at it, but it helps significantly.

Similarly, when we're facing scary obstacles - his approach is to hit it before he takes more than a second to look at it. The old "the longer you stare at it the less likely you are to do it" tactic. Which, I agree, does help mentally, but as I get older and have spent entirely too much time in physical therapy, I just can't get myself to take that much risk. If it looks beyond what seems comfortable, I want to really look at it first, and if it's a big step beyond what I've done in the past, I want to take the time to visualize what I'm going to do and have it thoroughly planned out in my head ahead of time. He just does it - it's like he can turn his brain off to consequences when he wants to and only focus on what he's doing. I have a really hard time doing that when I'm out of my comfort zone at all.

The other big difference is that he has this supreme confidence in his ability to predict what everyone else on a slope is doing (or what traffic is doing while riding a bike on the road). I don't feel comfortable with that at all and avoid crowded groomers and traffic like the plague. I don't know how much of that is spatial ability vs. experience and just plain old confidence level but it pisses me off sometimes. (It's a mild version of this teenager I met recently who was telling me he has no need to wear a helmet while riding his bike in town because no one could POSSIBLY, EVER hit him because he'd see them coming and be able to get out of the way first. Ah, youth.)


Hope this is making sense. I have the flu, slept all day and now it's 4:30 am and I'm wide awake and feeling mostly better with nothing to do.
post #95 of 117
Lisamarie wrote:
Quote:
The funny thing is that if it was her husband telling her to try it - there's no way she would have. He tells her to ride everything and gives her a hard time when she doesn't - as a result she doesn't trust him when he says she can ride something. But she does trust my judgement of her skills and responds well to: "You don't have to do it if you REALLY don't want to, but I KNOW you can". Plus I let her take her time and tell her exactly what to do and what to expect, when he just tells her to do it and quit holding up the group (which just makes her freeze up more).
and Delta wrote:
Quote:
I've been working and working on getting my skills to the point where I physically deal with what I have to do to get down steeper runs, but there's still a mental block.

But it makes a big difference to me when an instructor that I trust tells me I can do a run. It won't work with every instructor, and it doesn't work with Mr delta -- even though he's not a terrain pusher at all. He's very patient... But I still won't necessarily believe him if he thinks a run is doable by me.
I suspect this is actually very common. After all, most people are going to want to ski with their significant others at some point, but it boils down to
a) how well you trust their terrain judgement and
b) their attitude to "encouragement"

For instance, like Delta, I'll go down almost anything with little fear with an instructor I trust because I have faith that he won't take me anywhere I couldn't manage. Whereas I know exactly how much experience Mr Eng has (since we started skiing together and try to match our skill levels) and because I don't trust MY judgement, I don't trust his either. And again, he doesn't have that infinite patience that is a necessary pre-requisite for instructors. As a result, even if he doesn't say anything, I know he's getting frustrated with me going at my pace and not doing the entire slope in just 3 or 4 turns and that works on my mind and just helps me freeze up. He says his frustration is because he knows I can do things, but doesn't seem to realise that the way he does or doesn't express it only makes things worse.

The instructor makes me believe that it really doesn't matter how long I take to do something, with the result that I actually tend to do it more fluently. In point of fact, according to the instructors, my technique is actually probably a bit better than Mr Eng's but my caution is far higher. For instance, I won't ski in front of Mr Eng because I simply don't trust his willingness or ability (not sure which) not to go past me and steal my bit of piste.

Ant wrote:
Quote:
Women-fear is paralsysing, freezing, bad and dangerous. You can't smash through it. You can't "take it on".
It is so alien to male fear. It's a different animal.
...
fear makes me crumple. I can't use my muscles. I hang back, I can't even turn...
Men resent female fear. Then want to deny it, to rubbish it.
...
use that shot of adrenaline! But men can't understand that women don't get that shot when they are on the top of a steep run. Men do, women don't. I have been both sides. The shot is awesome, but if you don't get it, you are gorn.
Oh wow! That really really resounds with me! And it's quite true that the men I know almost certainly wouldn't "get" a word of that, it's simply beyond their comprehension. In the same way, Mr Eng simply can't comprehend that I get tired fairly quickly on the slopes because I expend so much energy off it in lift queues behind him: he's 6'4" and crowds open up for him like the Red Sea - and close up again behind him in front of me, so I end up walking 3 times as far to get round the people. He's never experienced what I do in that context, and therefore simply can't understand what I'm talking about. Could he walk behind me? Maybe, but with his long legs he doesn't, probably because he gets frustrated with me for walking more slowly.

Altagirl wrote:
Quote:
Interestingly enough, I read a blurb in Skiing a few years ago probably that said that female ski racers tend to have ring fingers longer than their index fingers,
Now come on, 'fess up - how many of you looked straight at your hands when you read that?
post #96 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by altagirl
I believe that there's a big difference between our fear levels, but my level of fear still isn't nearly the same as an average guy's I don't think. .

it is not a difference in fear levels - but in HOW the fear affects you....

I can be fine one minute - skiing along at a good clip & then BAM I can barely move a leg muscle.... because I'm scared outta my wits....

There is no logic - no arguing with it....

Ask ant - I'm sure she will agree - her fears are different to mine - but same effect - when it hits you really can pretty much NOT move.... the pushing through I do is to get me to MOVE (anywhere) facing the fear making thing is a NON issue - I am so frozen I WILL get hurt.... just because of how I am moving by then.....

Believe me - my favourite instructor has tried all sorts of stuff - because he JUST does not get it (ask ant she has skied with him.... he tellls me he gets scared - but he has no real idea about that paralytic type of fear & so can't help me).... he is the one got mad that another instructor could teach me to jump.....

I had to explain to him (actually sort of shoved it in his face during a debate about why I would not do something he felt was TECHNICALLY a cinch) that I did stuff for THAT instructor because the increments were SMALL (really small- much smaller than he would use)....

I love that instructor to bits for how he helped me learn to ski..... but he has no grasp of fear....

My other 2 regular instructors over the same period had nothing like the technical grasp - but had a MUCH better handle on how to get disski to ski things she would not.... (find an easy route past it.... use easy route to ski the last bit.... then a bit more ... etc etc .... or simply NOT GOING THERE until I was more comfy.... or telling me I SHOULD pull some weird maneuvering - just to let me ski it once...)

I chose my instructors to ski with so that I had a blend - some for understanding physics/biomechanics/some for learning to play etc etc....
Fear is a BIG issue for me - I'm just getting comfy with some stuff on skis & don't need to be scared stiff any more.....

My instructors that get it say you can see my body movement change when I see something I am worried about - & again when the FEAR hits(I go rigid then)....

My rollerblade instructor & I talked about it - he was aghast that I could spend ALL my time on skates very anxious & a fair bit terrified..... He got much better at letting me be re going harder/faster about then (new girlfriend too - I think she got through to him as she also teaches skating)
I could pretty much wear myslef out in 2 hours skiing as a beginner - just from the stress....
I NEVER slept the day before I had a new instructor & had a racing pulse & nausea for hours before I went skiing.... THAT is just my anxious level.... want to guess how I am when I'm stressed? Terrified?

as an example I'll probably spend days before going to ESA with an elevated pulse rate - why? new resort/snow/instructors.... I;ll have patches where my breathing will be tricky - just from the IDEA of a new ski place....

By the time I put skis on I'll be awash in sweat & my heart will be going hell for leather, I'll be struggling not to cry(just the cry for no reason stuff like PMT)....

This is the level I can PUSH THROUGH... I can make myself go ski other places - but when the real fear hits I really do not have much choice in what happens!
post #97 of 117
Dis,
Interesting on the nausea thing. I get that sometimes, too. Anxiety sure makes ya go through some changes!

The thing is, you always come out of it ok. Nothing really bad happens. You've had lots of new experiences in your life and they all were different....and the same. The worst has already happened. That's called Your Imagination!

Congratulate yourself on having a vivid imagination, then calm down and see the reality.
post #98 of 117
Oh yeah I'm going & doing it....
I'm just trying to explain the difference between worry, fear & TERROR....

Worry makes me feel off - TERROR seizes me up.... no ifs buts etc.... I'm like a rabbit in the car headlights (hands even try too imitate the rabbit)

Men still fear - but they "push through it" and get an adrenaline rush... I "push through it" and nearly faint with relief that I survived & vow I'm not doing THAT again! (Why push your luck! if I had a 50% chance of death I just used it up )

Rick is right comfort zones should be expanded not violated....(I like that - so when do I get to ski with you Rick?)
post #99 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
Oh yeah I'm going & doing it....
I'm just trying to explain the difference between worry, fear & TERROR....

Worry makes me feel off - TERROR seizes me up.... no ifs buts etc.... I'm like a rabbit in the car headlights (hands even try too imitate the rabbit)

Men still fear - but they "push through it" and get an adrenaline rush... I "push through it" and nearly faint with relief that I survived & vow I'm not doing THAT again! (Why push your luck! if I had a 50% chance of death I just used it up )

Rick is right comfort zones should be expanded not violated....(I like that - so when do I get to ski with you Rick?)
Taking things in small steps is an absolutely reasonable request.

Have you ever tried positive affirmations and/or visualization? Reading what you wrote, it sounds like you have some strong beliefs there - that you have no control over becoming frozen with fear, and that the odds are stacked against you.

What happens when you visualize doing something you're terrified of? Can you mentally see and feel the experience of navigating something successfully with confidence that in reality would cause you to freeze with fear?
post #100 of 117
1. Yeah, I looked down at my hands. My ring finger is actually longer than my index. Heh.

2. What I find really weird is that my adrenaline affects me differently depending on the circumstances. A physical, skiing fear is just as ant is describing for "female fear" -- more freeze than fight or flight. However, in other areas of my life that are non-physical (before making a presentation, for example) I can actually feel myself getting stronger -- just when I don't *need* that physical kick, I can in fact harness the adrenaline rush. Very peculiar.

I've been working a lot on breathing exercises this year (and also visualization, as others have mentioned) and it's going to help me through a lot more this year, because getting a lot of oxygen into me when I feel the physical sensation of fear beginning actually starts to shut down the paralysis. Lets my muscles do their thing.

But the best best is when you can go with an instructor who eases you into stuff, as dis says.

Holy crap! I swear I posted this before I read alta's post. Is that weird synergy or what?
post #101 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by altagirl
Taking things in small steps is an absolutely reasonable request.

Have you ever tried positive affirmations and/or visualization? Reading what you wrote, it sounds like you have some strong beliefs there - that you have no control over becoming frozen with fear, and that the odds are stacked against you.

What happens when you visualize doing something you're terrified of? Can you mentally see and feel the experience of navigating something successfully with confidence that in reality would cause you to freeze with fear?

See? NO never imagine in visuals really....
Feel? if you mean like feel doing it NO - I don't FEEL it like that when I DO do it! The only "feel" I have of skiing is of the sensations my feet get back from ski/snow..... If I am skiing well this is VERY quiet smooth talking sort of input (guess why I love to carve & struggle with a non-edged ski??)
So I "imagine" feelings when I dream skiing - but they are FEET feelings....

When frozen imagining ANYTHING is beyond you - that is TERROR.... you do NOT have control.... the control is in NOT getting to that situation in the first place....

Like I said - anyone want to come & look at legs rotting off with me? I want you to PUSH THROUGH your urge to vomit at the smell of dead rotting meat! Visualise the wound as pink and healthy and clean - not black/green/yellow ... no bone & tendons showing through & no-one moaning from the pain!
post #102 of 117
Oh & interestingly enough the "no fear" instructor - who happily drops 50' cliffs etc etc etc etc (well he used to race motorbuikes high level - takes that sort of mentality is TERRIFIED of needles..... the nurses come to inject him & he faints clean away!

I won my biggest victory by suggesting he "imagine" the needle was OK & he would be fine to which he replied
" I have no control of it I just faint"

BINGO!!!!

He still is dubious that my terror is the same - but I have pointed out I am tougher as i stay conscious past my fear

We no longer have arguments about if i should "push through" things though!
post #103 of 117
Do you believe that your fear is well-founded?

Or are you afraid of things that you think you don't really need to be afraid of, or wish you were not afraid of?


Incidentally, I went through a phase where I would pass out from needles - first I passed out trying to give blood and then had a panic-induced seizure while giving blood. At which point I was so afraid of needles, I then passed out from a damn flu shot. But I've since convinced myself that it's not scary and haven't had a problem with needles in about 8 years now. Years ago I would get dizzy and have to lay down just thinking vividly about having blood drawn and now I can think about it no problem, and it was a non-issue last time I needed blood drawn. (The Red Cross axed me from their blood donor list after wasting equipment twice and scaring the hell out of the other donors the last time... )
post #104 of 117
well - would YOU think it was reasonable to be afraid of skiing difficult slopes if you had no balance?

Ever had a knee or ankle you did "not trust" after an injury? Did it take a while to trust it again (& a lot of rehab maybe?)? Can YOU imagine having a WHOLE body just like that knee/ankle?

YOU tell ME if my fear is well founded
post #105 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by altagirl
(The Red Cross axed me from their blood donor list after wasting equipment twice and scaring the hell out of the other donors the last time... )

So why did you not just imagine yourself out of it the first time? WHY did you faint? Why did you repeat the experience?
post #106 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
So why did you not just imagine yourself out of it the first time? WHY did you faint? Why did you repeat the experience?
I didn't learn to do any positive visualization until after those incidents. And I felt like I "should" donate blood, and that it was all in my head, so I tried again. It wasn't until I learned to control what I was thinking that I got rid of that irrational fear.


All I'm saying is that if you believe your fears are well founded, and not irrational fears - then there is no reason to try and push through the fear - it is there for a reason - to protect you. If it was something that you think you should be able to do, but are held back by irrational fears, positive thinking and visualization would truly help.
post #107 of 117
My fears may be irrational from my instructors viewpoint- they insist I have MUCH higher technical skills than their other students (who ski the terrain I dislike & jump & drop)....

However if you look at it from my viewpoint I have just on 40 years experience that tells me no matter what ANYONE else does I WILL fall & get hurt doing the same simple maneuver.... Hence the fear is QUITE rational - I have NO REASON to trust my body... bar a few small days or weeks worth of decent skiing ability to contradict those past experiences...

Which do you think the brain is likely to believe - some self professed "fear expert" who assures me I could drop a mountain bike down a hill & not get hurt (when I have bruises all over me from trying to stop on flat roads) or my own past experience?

I stick with a certain bunch of instructors for a reason - like Rick they understand that lack of fear comes with improved technical skills and control and plenty of experience under controlled conditions - not from HAMMERING at it with a BIG STICK!
post #108 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
Which do you think the brain is likely to believe - some self professed "fear expert" who assures me I could drop a mountain bike down a hill & not get hurt (when I have bruises all over me from trying to stop on flat roads) or my own past experience?

I stick with a certain bunch of instructors for a reason - like Rick they understand that lack of fear comes with improved technical skills and control and plenty of experience under controlled conditions - not from HAMMERING at it with a BIG STICK!
I am totally on your side - in your situation I would not want to step outside what I am confident I could handle either.

I think your brain is pretty much guaranteed to believe whatever you decide to accept as the truth. You don't have to let past falls and bad experiences haunt you. I know I got myself to believe that the 10' drop that I wrecked off on my bike, resulting in a pile of bruises and a concussion that made me temporarily lose my perihperal vision -- was totally easy. I ran through it in my head the way I WANTED it to go, and absolutely forbid myself from replaying the wreck in my mind. I went out the next day, hit it and landed it (twice!) like it was nothing despite being in so much pain I could barely pedal.

If, on the other hand, you decide that the possible resulting injury is not worth the reward of doing something, then you should decide not to do it. That's fine too. My point is that YOU get to decide and tell your brain what is scary - it doesn't have to be the automatic response based on your past experiences, just as you don't have to believe your instructors opinion on the matter.


When you freeze up in fear - is there another way you would wish you'd react to the fear?
post #109 of 117
Ladies, what an interesting diversion

Have you read the books by the Pease couple?
1) Why men don 't listen and women can't read maps
2) Why men don't have a clue and women need more shoes

the first book is a sciency explanation of the physiological differences between male and female brains, while the second book focuses more on communication and behavior (which is a consequence of how our brains function)

interesting tidbits:

- men are fundamentally hunters ... they go out and hunt their prey. when this became obsolete, sports was the replacement. there is something to be won that involves a large physical battel
- women are fundamentally nurturers and gatherers ... we're protective and social at our core ... we seek to create comfortable and safe havens

- women have a thicker and stronger "corpus collosum" (connective tissue that holds the two sides of the brain together) ... because of this scientists can find communication centers on both sides of a woman's brain and just one communication center in a man's brain ... thus women are much more communicative

- men's vision is better in a "tunnel" -- they can see further and more clearly directly ahead of them ... good hunting skill
- women have a larger periphery (up/down and side to side) then men ... helps them protect their environment better
** I can see how this affects skiing particularly ... women see more of what's all around them which makes them consider, and perhaps worry, all the things they see

I think that one can be an excellent coach/instructor if they listen and watch ... thus understanding the needs of the participant. Trust and respect is clearly the way to overcome hesitancy and fear in a learner.

A learner also has to want to learn and progress.

I have felt fear while skiing ... I have followed the boys places where I wish I was wearing an adult diaper! hahaha I have to tell myself that I have the skills to handle the terrain and to not be afraid ... because the instinct is fear.

I told someone the other day ... "I think it's harder to teach the brain to ski than the body." Men disagreed and women agreed. What does that tell you?


kiersten
post #110 of 117
From eng_channel:

Quote:
I suspect this is actually very common. After all, most people are going to want to ski with their significant others at some point, but it boils down to
a) how well you trust their terrain judgement and
b) their attitude to "encouragement"

For instance, like Delta, I'll go down almost anything with little fear with an instructor I trust because I have faith that he won't take me anywhere I couldn't manage. Whereas I know exactly how much experience Mr Eng has (since we started skiing together and try to match our skill levels) and because I don't trust MY judgement, I don't trust his either. And again, he doesn't have that infinite patience that is a necessary pre-requisite for instructors. As a result, even if he doesn't say anything, I know he's getting frustrated with me going at my pace and not doing the entire slope in just 3 or 4 turns and that works on my mind and just helps me freeze up. He says his frustration is because he knows I can do things, but doesn't seem to realise that the way he does or doesn't express it only makes things worse.

The instructor makes me believe that it really doesn't matter how long I take to do something, with the result that I actually tend to do it more fluently. In point of fact, according to the instructors, my technique is actually probably a bit better than Mr Eng's but my caution is far higher. For instance, I won't ski in front of Mr Eng because I simply don't trust his willingness or ability (not sure which) not to go past me and steal my bit of piste.
BRILLIANT!!! Just out of curiosity, do you prefer male or female instructors, or does it make no difference? If you ski well with a male instructor, does it become an ego issue for your husband? So many women tell me that their husband or S.O. get ludicrously jealous of their ski instructor, which I find puzzling. The women are taking lessons so that they can enjoy spending time on the same terrain that their S.O. is comfortable with, yet the guy feels animosity towards the one person who can make it happen.

I believe that ANYONE probably skis better when they are with their coach, regardless of their gender. However, some guys seem to expect women to be able to immediately recreate the same technique and ski the exact same trails they skied in a lesson. If she can't, they assume that the instructor was inadequate. :
post #111 of 117
I probably should audit this thread, but I feel the discussion needs to hear from a woman who can't imagine what life would be like without some fear in it. If you aren't experiencing some fear, you're probably not challenging yourself and you risk boredom and stagnation. Yikes, as Mermer calls it, is a good thing, and each of us, regardless of gender, has our own threshold of too much or too little of it. Know your risk tolerance, and you can enjoy satisfaction in your day of skiing.
post #112 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by klkaye
I think that one can be an excellent coach/instructor if they listen and watch ... thus understanding the needs of the participant. Trust and respect is clearly the way to overcome hesitancy and fear in a learner.

yep thats the key!

Not "I do it this way"
or "you SHOULD do xxx"
the ones that win simply want to know WHAt I see as the problem.... we then work on avoiding the problem & developing skills that will let me not have a problem..... we find smaller versions of the problem & tackle them..... until eventually there is no problem left....


Re the men/women brain thing - I'm a pharmacist.... one of the skills all women pharmacists seem to have is they tend to know what is happening in their shops - because they are listening even though they do something else.... men pharmacists can't do this - they can only focus on one task at a time.... (Yes a generalisation - but the majority of the time it is true). The girls all laugh - but it is true.... men just multi- task poorly at best
post #113 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
I probably should audit this thread, but I feel the discussion needs to hear from a woman who can't imagine what life would be like without some fear in it. If you aren't experiencing some fear, you're probably not challenging yourself and you risk boredom and stagnation. Yikes, as Mermer calls it, is a good thing, and each of us, regardless of gender, has our own threshold of too much or too little of it. Know your risk tolerance, and you can enjoy satisfaction in your day of skiing.

yep that is it - as long as I can call the shots (& be believed) I am fine - i can have fun

If I want harder stuff - I'll ski with an instructor - as they always want me to ski stuff that is harder/faster.....
post #114 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by klkaye
I told someone the other day ... "I think it's harder to teach the brain to ski than the body." Men disagreed and women agreed. What does that tell you?


kiersten
Absolutely!

My mountain bike coach (a guy incidentally, but he does women's clinics too) taught me visualization. And that walking a racecourse and taking the time to visualize riding it just how I want to ride it over and over again yields fantastic results. Then ride a couple practice runs, and spend the evening visualizing it over and over again. Don't allow any negative thoughts.

My husband thought this was such stupid advice to actually pay for, but I had never even thought of it. The night before a race, my head was filled with visions of crashing and hurting myself. I could only think of what I didn't want to happen, and I'd get to the start gate and be totally afraid. DUH! Gene taught me to block out all those negative thoughts and only allow positive visions of what I want to happen inside my head. It helps immensely.

Apparently, it's something my husband has always done, so he couldn't comprehend that I wasn't doing the same thing naturally. Therefore, he never mentioned it.
post #115 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisamarie
BRILLIANT!!! Just out of curiosity, do you prefer male or female instructors, or does it make no difference? If you ski well with a male instructor, does it become an ego issue for your husband? So many women tell me that their husband or S.O. get ludicrously jealous of their ski instructor, which I find puzzling. The women are taking lessons so that they can enjoy spending time on the same terrain that their S.O. is comfortable with, yet the guy feels animosity towards the one person who can make it happen.

I believe that ANYONE probably skis better when they are with their coach, regardless of their gender. However, some guys seem to expect women to be able to immediately recreate the same technique and ski the exact same trails they skied in a lesson. If she can't, they assume that the instructor was inadequate. :
I guess I'm pretty fortunate insofar as neither Mr Eng nor I are jealous types. We also, with a few exceptions, share private lessons which is one of the ways we make sure we stay at the same level. What frustrates him - and I can quite understand it - is that I'll do a piste in the morning with the instructor that I won't do on our own in the afternoon, even though I have the proof of my ability to ski it. It's almost as if the instructor is a good luck mascot.

Re gender, to an extent it doesn't matter that much. The style of instruction that has clicked best with me (us?) is that taught for the BASI qualifications, it's very much based on imagery, it's analytical and it's positive. I've only had a couple of instructors from whom I felt I learnt very little: one was a lower qualified Swiss girl and it may be that we underestimated our skills when booking and were assigned someone who was more used to teaching beginners? The other was a French girl working for a British ski school but who had clearly been trained in the French system and what she was trying to teach us seemed to be at total variance from what the British instructors were after and she focused too much on what I was doing wrong rather than working up from a base of what was good to then work on "tweaking" things. It was a very negative approach - I work far better when I believe that I'm basically doing OK and just need to adjust a few things, than that I'm basically crap and there are just a few things that are good.

As others have said, communication, attitude and approach are the critical factors and I don't think gender really makes a massive difference. However, on the one occasion I took a private on my own to recover my bottle after losing it with the French girl and a couple of free skiing incidents on the same days, it was with a woman and somehow there was a certain feeling of solidarity. Maybe it was just that she was an excellent communicator, but I just got the feeling that I didn't need to explain what was wrong in such great detail for her to understand almost instinctively. I didn't need to explain to her why I was afraid of things because I could see from her face that she understood it perfectly. With a man I might have had to explain further just what was causing the fear or what the outcome I feared was.

As an aside, I was actually wondering the other day (prompted by a thread on Snowheads) how much time the 'average' instructor spends in an 'average' week on (private) lessons that have the purpose of recovering bottle (given that there's no such thing as 'average')? I think it must be less than rare? And of those having a 'recovering bottle' lesson, how many of those would be women? Are women more liable to lose their bottle? Or just more willing to admit it?
post #116 of 117
Just as an interesting (?) aside.... A girlfriend and I are planning to go out on our own the week after next, leaving our respective husbands behind. Her H is evidently very patient with her because he has been a ski instructor in a past life, but she feels guilty for holding him up. Should be interesting to see whether our attitude and even ability changes when not under real or imagined pressure to perform in a particular way
post #117 of 117
eng_ch, I daresay that you'll experience some very interesting dynamics when its just you and your friend skiing together. I know that in the past, I have been amazed at the difference between participating in physical sports with males and females as opposed to just with other females. Very interesting indeed. In a good way, or at least it is for me.

K.
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