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Boots for level 6/7 skier with skinny feet and calves?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for a pair of boots to solve my boot fit woes and this time it has to be right or I will cry!
My feet are medium width, skinny, medium height arch and I have skinny calves.
To top it off I weigh 140 lbs.
At the moment I feel I could be a level 6/7 skier on a good day , and aspire to be a good level 8 skier this winter.
My instructor reckons I should be looking at Rossignol Elite Pro's of some description or perhaps the Langs in the low volume fit.
Also an added bonus would be if the boots weren't prone to stiffening up real bad when cold.
If the boot gurus would be kind enough to offer me some advice on boots to look out for would be very grateful. I don't trust the bootfitters to advise me as i'm on my fourth pair this year!

Thanks guys,

Chris
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyrobin
I'm looking for a pair of boots to solve my boot fit woes and this time it has to be right or I will cry!
My feet are medium width, skinny, medium height arch and I have skinny calves.
To top it off I weigh 140 lbs.
At the moment I feel I could be a level 6/7 skier on a good day , and aspire to be a good level 8 skier this winter.
My instructor reckons I should be looking at Rossignol Elite Pro's of some description or perhaps the Langs in the low volume fit.
Also an added bonus would be if the boots weren't prone to stiffening up real bad when cold.
If the boot gurus would be kind enough to offer me some advice on boots to look out for would be very grateful. I don't trust the bootfitters to advise me as i'm on my fourth pair this year!


Thanks guys,

Chris

Chris,
Your weight is the primary factor that will come into play, along with your foot shape.
Take the time and find a shop that has competent boot fitting staff, if you have custom foot beds bring them along with you when you go shoping.
If not get a pair made.
As far as haveing someone suggest a boot 4 you, take that advice with a grain of salt!
Heck without actually seeing your foot how can any one make that call?

Also find a boot that is laterally stiffer and one that has a even flex fore and aft. this will help you in developing your edegeing skills.

you might have to spend many hours going from shop to shop just to find the right boot. and you will/might have to bring it back 2 the shop to have it tweeked.
Paul Elliott

oh yeah what boot are you skiing in right now?

also what size shell are you skiing in?
did you down size the boot that you now own?

at your weight look into trying on some Jr. Race boots.
later.
P.E.
post #3 of 25
what did you do with the Salomon 1080?
post #4 of 25
One thing you should know about the Rossi Elite Pro boots. They are too roomy and are also heavy. I was also interested in the Elite Pro but Jeff bergeron told me not to bother because at least they are not better than my Alu Comps.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hi Bling skier,

Thanks for the advice

I'll see if I can add some more info - please don't laugh

I started off in a pair of XWave 8's in a size 26.5. They gave me black toe nails as they were too big.
Next up was a pair of Nordica Beasts in a size 26. These were too big in the forefoot leading me to clamping the buckles down way too much.
Next a pair of Atomic TX11 kids race boots were bought in a size 27. These have now padded out and my feet can swim in them.
Now I have a pair of Salomon 1080's in a size 26.5 - Shop reckoned the soft plastic of these would make them ideal. Since they have had V's cut out of the back, front cuffs lowered, booster strap fitted, conformable liners that went wrong and now cause me blistered shins. Instrutor has watched me ski in these and says their holding me back in progressing as they are in his words garbage!
So now I am currently going to attempt to use the Atomic TX11's next week with an extra insole popped in to reduce the volume and thick socks to see if these would work for flex.
If this works then I may have to start looking round the kiddies boots!
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hi Sywsyw,

I'm afraid i'm having to add the 1080's to my growing boot graveyard!
Now hearing that the Rossy boots are higher volume than I would probably require is bad news
post #7 of 25
Dear Robin,

You might consider different custom liners. I use Thermo liners, but a better choice might be Zip Fit.
http://www.zipfitna.com/

http://www.zipfit.com/index.htm

These liners can be injected to fill in areas that need more volume. The leather is very comfortable, i'm told.

Use them with a pair of shells from your collection! The Atomics might be the ticket since they worked until they packed out.

Barrettscv
post #8 of 25
Okay, so you need new boots. There are two models you could try:

Tecnica Diablo Race Pro 110
Nordica Dobermann WC 100

The Diablo is the H13/110 flex. Don't worry about it. 110 on the Tecnica scale is very soft. I am confident at your weight you can flex the 110 easily.
The Dobermann WC 100 has a sligthly lower cuff than the WC 150 but it shouldn't be a problem if you are not very tall. This boot is for lighter weight skiers and you should be able to flex it without any problems.

I weigh 155lbs. and have the H17/150 flex.
post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
sywsyw, Thanks. My local shop stocks those two makes so i'll ask them if I can try some on when they get the new seasons stock in.

I'm curious about you mentioning about the lower boots not being a problem if i'm not too tall - i'm 5' 11". I think my lowering the cuffs on my 1080's have caused me some shin support problems when I ride the cuffs. Could this also be problem with the boots you reccommend with my height?
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
barretsvc, Thanks for the linky. I'm doing a full season this coming Winter so a liner like their leather one would be ideal if it will be more robust than the ones that come with my boots. I was really surprised just how quickly some boots liners will pack out. I guess if its comfy in the shop it won't be long till your feet swim! Next time i'll make sure my feet are getting tightly hugged.
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyrobin
Hi Bling skier,

Thanks for the advice

I'll see if I can add some more info - please don't laugh

I started off in a pair of XWave 8's in a size 26.5. They gave me black toe nails as they were too big.
Next up was a pair of Nordica Beasts in a size 26. These were too big in the forefoot leading me to clamping the buckles down way too much.
Next a pair of Atomic TX11 kids race boots were bought in a size 27. These have now padded out and my feet can swim in them.
Now I have a pair of Salomon 1080's in a size 26.5 - Shop reckoned the soft plastic of these would make them ideal. Since they have had V's cut out of the back, front cuffs lowered, booster strap fitted, conformable liners that went wrong and now cause me blistered shins. Instrutor has watched me ski in these and says their holding me back in progressing as they are in his words garbage!
So now I am currently going to attempt to use the Atomic TX11's next week with an extra insole popped in to reduce the volume and thick socks to see if these would work for flex.
If this works then I may have to start looking round the kiddies boots!
Humm, I apreciate your honesty.
As far as "The dreaded black toe " goes... a boot the is too big and a boot that is too small can end up with the same results, black toe.
go figure?
Black toe in most cases is causd by the toe nail being lifted. an example is take you foot and rub it up and down on a wall and the action of that up and motion will cause it.
And its too bad that the industry has not set standards when it comes to standardising shell sizeing.
in other words one boot companys size 27 is totaly diffrent to anothers.
bummer eh?

And going to a thicker sock will not help your prob.
adding a thicker/extra insole is one rute to take up volume, but what about the length?
do your toes "Brush" up against the front of the boot with out the extra insole in it?
as far as padding out a boot that will only slow down the action of the boot( most womens poots have waaaaay too much padding in them in the first place).
if so the extra insilole will be a temp. fix at best.
i was skiing in the mens T-11 boot and found they packed out big time!
but i get in over 100 days a season. and packing out will just happen.
sound like you are going to need a new boot again.
if you want to soften up a boot cutting a vee in the lower shell is the way to go.
I have cut away the lower shell on one too many USSA "J-racers" just to get them to flex right.
i know that you should not take advice from someone that does not ski in your boots 4 you...but check out the Head ski boots. i have gotten great results fitting them on womens feet right out of the box.
Good luck and get forward!
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Bling skier, I think my black toe nails were caused by my XWaves being big allowing my foot to jar back and forward when back seating it BIG TIME over rough and steep terrain I could not handle. I won't be doing that again now my technique has improved

One thing that has really bugged me is how you can try the boot for flex in the shop and feels great. 2 Hours being sat in a snowdome at -7C and the damn things get real stiff. My 1080's go from being like jelly where I have to support myself with ankle strength to rock hard with no cuff rotation. Would be nice if fitters would pop your boots in a freezer for fitting to give you a better idea what the flex will be like while skiing.
I watch people at the snowdome and the number who do not have enough ankle flex is quite surprising.

If only it were as simple as someone measuring your foot length, forefoot width, ankle width, instep height. Enter all these variables into a computer program and the results appear on the screen as to which boots are right for you.
I guess the industry is too busy making themselves fat on repeat offenders like me!
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyrobin
If only it were as simple as someone measuring your foot length, forefoot width, ankle width, instep height. Enter all these variables into a computer program and the results appear on the screen as to which boots are right for you.
I believe Paul Richelson (Feet First, Plymouth, NH USA) has something similar to what you describe. His system scans your foot, then compares it to a database of measurements he has comprised for a "plethora" of boots. I talked with him about it many years ago, but have never made it to his shop to check it out. He knows his stuff. He may have figured out options for helping those who can't get to his shop, but since boot fitting is such an art it would definitely be difficult. With an impression of your feet, maybe.....? Good luck!
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyrobin
barretsvc, Thanks for the linky. I'm doing a full season this coming Winter so a liner like their leather one would be ideal if it will be more robust than the ones that come with my boots. I was really surprised just how quickly some boots liners will pack out. I guess if its comfy in the shop it won't be long till your feet swim! Next time i'll make sure my feet are getting tightly hugged.
From what I understand the Zipfit liners cannot pack-out. The liner is filled with a wax like material with suspended cork particles. The material flows to fill any areas of excess volume. Addition material can be added at any time.

The leather continues to clinch the foot as it wears. Users say the fit only improves in time.

They have a few styles, including the Sidewinder. This style works like a lace-up ankle brace for the foot and lower leg to assert leverage over the shell. Along with the plastic-reinforced tongue, this gives you improved leverage in every direction.


Barrettscv
post #15 of 25
I'm not a pro boot fitter, but I had a similar boot nightmare years ago- with my skinny ankles and legs I ended up with Flexons- Low volume foot=low volume shell. The Thermoflex liners should last two or three seasons, even longer before they pack out and can be replaced for under $125. The Flexon is no longer made but the Dalbello Krypton is it's successor and you could check that out. Had I not found the Flexon, Lange would have been my next try for ther famous heel and ankle snugness. Surefoot makes a great foam liner in a Lange shell that people rave about. Myself, I went through four foams over the years and I don't care for them. Zipfit either, though it sounds like the old, heavy, silicon version is a thing of the past. I found my boot, but it took ten boots to get there. Now I have a fairly new pair, (Flexons), a gently used pair, a trashed pair for parts and a boxed pair still in the wrapper just in case. Good luck.
post #16 of 25
At your height i would certainly prefer the higher cuff for you. In this case i recommend the Nordica Dobermann Pro 110. Only slightly stiffer (110 flex) but with a higher cuff.

I don't know what you did to the 1080. How much was the cuff lowered? You are tall and IMO a boot with a taller cuff would be better for you.

My reccommendation is still the same: Diablo Race Pro 110 or Dobermann Pro 110.
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone for your help and advice. I've emailed a few bootfitters asking them what they can do for me. Shall wait and see if any show any interest.
Looks like i'm in for a bit of hassle travelling round trying boots on I guess.
A number of people are telling me to wait till I get over to Switzerland and get my boots in resort.
This will be fine but means i'm stuck with nothing of any use in the meantime.
My TX11's will tie me over for a few sessions but after looking at the shell shape compared to my feet they're not even close.
I have seen a pair of Rossignol Elite Pro 1 Junior boots going cheap as a clearence item. These are so cheap that I could carry the cost if they would last me till the Winter. Are these boots any good?
I noticed that they don't state what flex value they are. Does anyone here have any idea?
If these may be an ideal stop gap I may drive over this week to try a pair on on the off chance.

sywsyw, Thanks for the recomendations. Only thing that worries me is I have friends who ski in boots like the ones you recommend. Problem is they weigh 4 or 5 stone more than me. I'm real worried that i'll be flexing them in the shop, but on the hill it'll be like wearing concrete all over again.

I did notice that Lange do a nice range of Junior boots that state their accomodating for the more slender feet and calves a younger person usually has. Would these be worth a serious look?
post #18 of 25
You should focus on the model. With Nordica, the boot you should be looking for is the Dobermann Pro 110. Any thing else in the Dobermann line will probably be too stiff.

Same with Tecnica. IMO the model you should consider is the Race Pro 110. Again, the other model is probably going to be too stiff for you.

IMO these boots are soft and the Diablo is even softer than the Dobermann. The latter is made in an extra-soft polyether. The Dobermann will be much lower volume than the beast, flex much better and hold the foot much better.

If you are not satisfied with our advice, ask a bootfitter (just as you did). Jeff Bergeron will probably start a new thread in December.

i am not a fan of jr. boots.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
sywsyw, The guys I really want to get my boots from are Profeet in London. They seem to be the only people prepared to give the full stance/physical allignment treatment to their customers. I think last year they had both the Tecnica and Nordica boots. I'll give them a ring this week and see if they would be interested in helping me trying the boots you recommended. Only trouble with them is their not showing any signs of putting anything up on their site and they don't reply to my emails!
Please don't think I was intimating not taking you guys advice. I've just got this mental hurdle to get over that I will be ok in these boots that heavier people also use. I think i've just been very badly bitten by the way my 1080's have turned out.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
At your height i would certainly prefer the higher cuff for you. In this case i recommend the Nordica Dobermann Pro 110. Only slightly stiffer (110 flex) but with a higher cuff.

I don't know what you did to the 1080. How much was the cuff lowered? You are tall and IMO a boot with a taller cuff would be better for you.

My reccommendation is still the same: Diablo Race Pro 110 or Dobermann Pro 110.
ok,ok I was not going to post this......but a 110 flex 4 a 140 lb. Freesking female skier?

cuff height....if you take a look a man and a woman standing side by side (same height) the womans calf muscle will sit lower on the leg than the mans will.
A lower cuff height will help out most skiers "foot speed" in short radius turns.(SL racers will use a boot with a lower cuff height.
Speed event skiers will have boots made with higher cuff heights.
This higher cuff height will help a skier with greater lateral support needed in long raidus turns.
the trick is to find a boot that will not pinch a calf that sits lower on the leg.
one can allways move the top buckle outward to lessen any pain/circulation probs. that might exist.


on to sizeing the foot....useing a branock device three measuerments will be taken.
foot lenght/width/and toe length as it relates to the foot.
the third is one mesurement that is overlooked by too many sales people.
This is the little arrow looking device that slides up the length of the foot on the medial side of the foot(inside big toe side).
welll....you slide this up to the fifth meditarsal bone(where the big toe meets the foot) and there is a gauge that will mesure the relation of the toe length to the relation of the whole foot......ie; some ppl have longer and some short toes.....also this is the widest part of the foot.
now a person with shorter toes might have a foot length of let's say a 9.5 but thier toes might belong on a foot of a 8.5....still with me here?
the oppsite can allso hapen....bla-bla-bla...
so back to the 9.5 foot with a let's say a size 11.0 toe will feel cramped in a down sized boot and visa versa with long foot body and short toes.
with that said make sure the sales/boot fitter takes this into acount(if they pull out a mesureing device that only mesures the length...run out of the store....or you can hire me...Btw i am a cheap date!
Paul Elliott
post #21 of 25
You keep saying you know heavier people using the boots i reccommended. Are you sure they are in the Race Pro 110 and Dobermann Pro 110? These boots are not stiff. Maybe they are in the Race 130/Pro 130. The Tecnica should be even softer than the Pro but keep in mind they can be soften if needed. And this does not include cutting a v in the back. The Pro has a rivet in the back which you can take out to soften the boot, but the method i reccommend is to cut the lower about 1cm on all sides because this will soften the boot and WILL NOT affect it negatively. Some boots have dotted line indicating the place where the boot should be cut.

I know how you feel. Now you must get it right.
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
Bling SKier, I'm not a female skier. Just a guy who needs to put on weight so sorry no date for you i'm afraid

Thats some great info you posted. Sadly I don't think there's a single UK bootfitter that goes to that trouble of measuring your feet! The last one I went to told me they train most of the bootfitters in the UK and they certainly didn't do what you posted. They didn't even measure my feet, just try boots on till I intimated I was happy with what I was wearing.
I'm now wondering if i'm wasting my time looking in the UK, very shoddy

sywsyw, I cannot be definate on the models but only on what they look like i'm afraid. I'll ask them next time I see them sliding.
Thanks for the info on how to soften up the shells. I'm going to have a good look at the shells this time round so will keep an eye out for the rivets etc you described, thanks.
I will get this right this time, I promise
Would it be reasonable to threaten the bootfitter that I will bring the boots back for a refund if they cannot get the boots right within a reasonable time period?
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bling Skier
ok,ok I was not going to post this......but a 110 flex 4 a 140 lb.
What about this one: me @ 155lb. have a 150 flex. Guess what? I can flex it.
As you probably know, flex numbers are made up and vary widely from company to company. As i said before, 110 is not stiff and the 110 Tecnica is very,very soft. So if you're scared of a 110 flex, i suspect you haven't read too many posts about boots.

If you are looking for a 80 or 90 flex, you have the Beast and other models which are much wider, have a poor flex pattern and do not hold the foot well. When the liner packs out the nightmare begins:.
Same with Tecnica. If you are looking for a 90 flex, you have to look at the Magnesium, Fire which have a wider last and the flex is not up to the level of the Race Pro.

I remember the Fire (when i tried it on) was very wide in the forefoot area and i was in the correct size (although the heel hold was decent).

So there you have it. You want a 70 - 80 - 90 flex? look at the models with a wider last and poor flex pattern.

the problem is that this is true with most other companies, not only with Nordica and Tecnica. Only a few models are narrow/low volume enough for the members of the chicken brotherhood. Most of the models offered are too wide, mid to high volume with a poor flex pattern. And if the skier is also light weight, the problem gets complicated. So we have to search for the right models. In his case i reccommended the boots with a lower volume last which are also the softest. There are probably other options from Lange and others but i think the Tecnica and Nordica could work well. I also mentioned the method i reccommend to soften the boots. No v cut please!

I am not a bootfitter. I was just trying to help.

Jamie
post #24 of 25
There have been some good recommendations here. I agree with Mr Crab- Flexons, which might still be available in Europe (I have been told they can be had in Japan via the web, too) or perhaps the new Krypton from Dalbello. I am similar in size to you (very low volume feet, thin ankles and calves, 126lbs), and have been in Flexons with thermofit liners for 5 years- incredible fit, comfort, warmth. Have heard good things about the Doberman XS, too, but hte bottom line is that you are going to need a good bootfitter. Perhaps WTFH can offer some advice about good places to go in London and vicinity for fitting. You can PM him here.
post #25 of 25
A word of caution- I see the Doberman 110 described as an elite level race boot- many foam liners are for race too, although Surefoot says theirs is for comfort (must be softer than the old foamies I had). Point is, as a level 6-7 one is wasting time in a race boot and it'll get in the way, make it harder to advance, and be less fun to ski. Been there, done that. The idea that a level 6 skier can grow into a level 9 by using level 9 equipment is just wrong, in my experience. A good freeride boot should be plenty precise and forgiving. Skiing should be fun, not some ordeal- and one can use good technique to overcome any slight lack of precision much easier than one can overcome painful, stiff, unforgiving equipment.
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