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Low Volume, Medium Flex, Performance Boot

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
I currently have Salomon Crossmax 10 boots.

I like them but sometimes I get inconsistent flex on my right boot and the liners have packed out. I have banged up my right leg the past few seasons and I think it has made flexing stiffer boots less consistent based on the outside temp.

My street shoe size is 9.5-10 and the boots are 27.5. I am 5'7" 170# but can get down to 160 if I start working out again.

I have been looking at Lange boots and have been trying some on. The Comp 120 medium fit is too stiff for me but I like the progressive flex. My foot can slightly roll in the boot and my heal can slightly lift so I want to try the low volume.

I also tried on the Comp 100 FR which feels good flex wise but the 27 seems slightly too big. The 26.5 is too small for my foot and my toes hit the front. Lange does not make the Comp 100 boots in low volume as far as I know.

So what I am looking for is:
low or regular volume
narrow heal pocket
good progressive (medium) flex
good lateral stiffness for carving
good boot for all around skiing (not racing)

Any suggestions?
post #2 of 28
Scalce,

my foot is low-volume and can't happily fit in the Lange Banshee/Comp 100 which is the flex I like in the Lange line, but the instep volume is too tall and leaves my foot floppy when fit for length.

I have found happiness in a pair of '03 Rossi Bandit B2 boots. the liner boot is starting to pack out though, and I might have to buy some new liner boots, but I like the shell and its fit.

my foot is narrow in the heel and ankle, average midfoot with shortish instep height, and wide at the ball of the foot due to a bunion (both feet).

Langes from the 80s and early 90s used to fit me fine. but then they went with "comfort" volume and screwed the pooch. at least for my feet. seems they got more market share with their bigger volume, though.
post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 
Thanks Gonz

I'll try on some Rossis and see what I think.
post #4 of 28
Hey, Scalce, haven't seen you here in a while. In the next few weeks Northern Ski Works in Ludlow will open. Go see Shon 802 228 3344. He is the best in the area outside of Greg Hoffman. Tell Shon I sent you. I have small heels and a wide toe area with high arch. If you saw my sons feet, you would wonder how he can get any boot on. Shon down sizes him 3 shell sizes and he is happiest in his boots.
post #5 of 28
Add the Dalbello Krypton to your shopping list. I have a low volume foot also with a high arch, my lower leg is also very thin. The Krypton with a thermoflex liner works with my foot quite well. The Pro model comes with 2 tongues, so you can get different flexes, but the Cross might work just fine.
post #6 of 28
What you need is a semi-race boot. One or two models down from the top race boot. So you probably need a consumer plug. You don't mention if you have a wide forefoot or not. I have three models in my mind:

Tecnica Diablo Race 130
Dolomite Z-Race/Z-Pro
Nordica Dobermann Pro 130/110.
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
What you need is a semi-race boot. One or two models down from the top race boot. So you probably need a consumer plug. You don't mention if you have a wide forefoot or not. I have three models in my mind:

Tecnica Diablo Race 130
Dolomite Z-Race/Z-Pro
Nordica Dobermann Pro 130/110.
Wouldn´t they be too stiff for someone who found Lange Comps 120 too stiff and Comps 100 "good flew wise"?
They should all be 98 mm wide, only Z-Race is 95 mm/size 7.5 UK and it seems to be rather stiff.
I would also add the narrowest Heads RS 100 or S12 but they are already 100 mm wide.

Lange have LF (low fit) only in 130 and 120s. Everything further down is MF or wider. The only other narrower Langes should be the womens 120 and 100 but I doubt that they would be a good fit (sizes up to 11.5 US woman).
post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
Wouldn´t they be too stiff for someone who found Lange Comps 120 too stiff and Comps 100 "good flew wise"?
I didn't think the 120 was too stiff but I want something good for bumps and won't feel like concrete in 0 - sub 0 temps.

I think the stiffness on my Crossmax boots are OK sometimes but there are times when they just don't feel right in colder temps and my foot is not 100% locked in.

It's hard to leverage the boot flex properly when my foot is shifting first.
post #9 of 28
Scalce, seriously, try on a pair of Dalbello Krypton boots. The molded tounge without the overlapping cuff, really provides progressive flex. It is just amazing how these provide lateral stiffness but allow very progressive forward flex. The Garmont Adrenalin is designed similarly, but with 4 buckles, higher volume and lighter materials.
post #10 of 28
a 9 shoe in a 27 might be a it big?

I'm 8.5 shoe and a 25 in salomon with a 1 - 1.5cm fit

add the salomon pro/course to the try on list too.
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
I didn't think the 120 was too stiff but I want something good for bumps and won't feel like concrete in 0 - sub 0 temps.

I think the stiffness on my Crossmax boots are OK sometimes but there are times when they just don't feel right in colder temps and my foot is not 100% locked in.

It's hard to leverage the boot flex properly when my foot is shifting first.

Look at the last sentence. He really needs a boot with a narrower heel pocket. All the boots i mentioned fit the bill. They are semi-race boots and they will do the trick. No way, the Head is not going to do it. They are too wide and the only boot narrow enough is the plug.
You can always soften the boot if it is a little stiff. IMO that's exactly what you should do. Focus on fit and then see if the flex is good for you. If you find the Dobie Pro 130 too stiff, you can try the Pro 110. Same with Dolomite if the z-race is too stiff (and it probably is @ 150), try the z-pro. The Diablo should be OK. Jeff Bergeron recommends the new z series for freeskiing.
post #12 of 28
Scalce,

Another thing you can do is ask Jeff bergeron but he will start a new thread in December (maybe)
Anyway, i think the would recommend a semi-race boot too. They will hold your foot best. If you at least try them on, you will see that they have the best fit, best flex and you will ski your best.
post #13 of 28
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the input.

I will try on some race boots to see what fits good and then soften them if needed.

It sucks because I am pretty much inbetween a 26 and 27 shell but in a 26 my toes get slammed. I guess the toebox could always get blown out, no?
post #14 of 28
Of course the toebox could always get blown out. Plug boots have the thickest plastic but the semi-race boots (based on the plug versions) still have enough. These boots have a slightly more forgiving last than the plug versions so that they will require less work. For example the Dobermann Pro 130/110 has wider forefoot than the plug WC 150 (and also in the other areas).
The Diablo Race Pro has a wider forefoot than the Race R, also has a wider heel and also a wider mid foot area. The reason is the same: less work.
The dolomite z-pro (and not the z-race. sorry i forgot the flex index for this boot) could also be a good option.
post #15 of 28
Thread Starter 
I was debating getting a custom foam liner last year for my Crossmax to help lock in my foot but that will cost just as much as a pair of new boots.
post #16 of 28
In your place i would buy a new boot. The semi-race boots should fit your feet better. If you really want something that will enhance the hold (and performance), try a lace-up liner. The DObermann lace-up liner is probably best known. This liner will take up less space than the standard liner and the boot will feel more comfortable especially if the boot is very tight. One more thing: lace-up liners are more difficult to put on than the other liners but they are a DREAM.
post #17 of 28
I'll say it again, you need to spend time with a good boot fitter. If you don't want to drive all the way to Okemo, try Stan and Dan's in I think, N. Conway NH, I here they are good too.
post #18 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity
I'll say it again, you need to spend time with a good boot fitter. If you don't want to drive all the way to Okemo, try Stan and Dan's in I think, N. Conway NH, I here they are good too.
Thanks Byron

I am going to go to a good shop soon but alot of places have limited stock and have not received this yea's stiff yet.

We'll probably take a ride up to Okemo once the shop starts getting stuff in.
post #19 of 28
Scalce, try on the Salomon Pro Model.
post #20 of 28
I have narrow feet and the Course/Pro Model boots fit me the best. I'm a 10.5 shoe and ended up getting the 26.5 Course 120 and punching the toe out about a cm. and the fit is great. The Krypton wasn't available when I bought mine, but I tried them on later in the year and they felt really good too.
post #21 of 28
Thread Starter 
I need to find a local shop that carries various race boots so I can start trying some on.

Are there any drawbacks to softening boots such as leakage issues with cutting the shell?
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
I need to find a local shop that carries various race boots so I can start trying some on.
Not sure what they carry for race boots, but I've heard good things about Bob Smith's Wilderness house. I purchased many things there other than boots, and always been happy with the level of knowledge and service. At this point in the year, it's worth a visit...
post #23 of 28
I'm with Mtnlion on the size. A 9-10 shoe size in a size 9 lange is pretty big. Try the lange 120 in an 8 (they don't use DIN sizing) and a couple things may happen. Obviously tighter fit but you may go to a medium fit and find little change in the nice snug heel. Going down that size should bring you into a smaller cuff (2 sizes smaller) which may line up with your leg better and make the boot feel much softer. Of course the materials are the same but when your foot lines up biomechanically better it makes a huge difference.

Pay close attention to the shell fit. Lange was and may still be notorious for a tight liner especially in the toe box so discomfort may come from the liner alone and be easily remedied. Trust the shell fit and shell fit alone and stick with that. If in doubt try the size 8 shell with the size 9 liner and see the effect of some work being done on the liner. Just don't screw the shop and try to walk out with that set up.
post #24 of 28
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice L7.

I think a major reason why I can't flex my boot properly is because I can't leverage my leg properly like you said.
post #25 of 28
Back to the Krypton...One of the design aspects of the boot is that the hinge is right at your ankles flex point unlike most boots wich is much higher.

Note the hinge point even compared to the Flexon.
post #26 of 28
Phil, the bigger difference in those boots is that the cuff does not overlap, but is instead closed by a separate tounge which can be changed to alter the flex. The hinge placement looks advantagous, but overlap cuff boots are extremely rigid in terms of forward flex, and are very affected by temperature. The overlap on boots like Solomon even impinges on the lower boot. Even with a freely moving hinge the boot will not flex forward and down without first distorting the foot section. Am I on the right track with this?
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
.....It sucks because I am pretty much inbetween a 26 and 27 shell but in a 26 my toes get slammed. I guess the toebox could always get blown out, no?
Scalce,
My $.01 is along mtlion's....the shell-fit is the test...one finger in...and then let the bootfitter do his thing... The flex-point(front of ankle) on the 27 will be slightly higher...not meeting up with your ankle-joint but with your lower end of your shin = resistance...not a flex ....$.01
post #28 of 28
Cirque - you've hit upon one of my biggest pet peeves about most overlap boot designs. The shell fit might be great while the boot is in the neutral position, but upon flexing the lower boot deforms and no longer fits the foot in the same way. This is less of an issue with very stiff boots that don't flex much at all, but any softer or more free flexing designs have these issues. That's one of the reasons I ski in Flexons (and now the Krypton). The design is much less prone to this "deformation" during flexing due to the tongue design (though I think the Krypton does deform a bit more than my Flexons).

What I want is something like my Dynafits that I had back in the early '80s. They had separate rubber wedges of different "stiffness" values that could be installed at the rear of the boot. These wedges were much less temperature sensitive than boot plastic and allowed you to control the forward flex with the wedges instead of the boot shell plastic. This allowed Dynafit to make the shell incredibly stiff with a free flexing hinge. The boot barely deformed at all (only if the wedge was completely "compressed out"). I sure wish a manufacturer would get a clue and separate the "forward flex" mechanics from being so temperature and shell material dependent. I'd love to see the Dynafit idea re-invented.

I had the Dynafits for quite a few years until the original Raichle Flexon 5 came out. Then I was in Flexons for the next 20+ years.
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