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Jackson Hole: The New Beaver Creek?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
This is my theory: JH is decidely going to go after the upscale skier and gradually turn JH into a luxe destination resort. Why not, JH is already the home of the rich and famous, all it lacks is cush resort. The new hotel (is it 4 season or Ritz?) was the first step. Next: Luxury base village. Of course none of those Bogner wearing, Volant skiing (sorry Volantaddict), paunch belly, investment bankers and dry cleaning magnates are getting any where near Rendevouz Bowl any way, so why re- build the tram. They'll start offfering cat skiing up to the top as part of their steep and deep camp. Why spend $20 mill on a tram just so a hand ful of hardcores on Fat Bros can rip it up. Why save the last real essence of skiing? Too bad.

Of course, I really don't know what I am talking about.
post #2 of 15
Of course... questionable whether the "Bogner wearing..." crowds want to put up with the freezing temps down in the village when the sun rises & inversion kicks in. Trophy wive gets unhappy when daddy comes home with a big grin like he won the lottery while she's been skidding in the flats @ -10 degree C all day. In your scenario, Grand Targhee would have much better potential w/ better snow and they already have cat skiing. Tram or not, JH is a grim, cold place where the sun sets early.
post #3 of 15
The skiing is only good at Jackson WHEN it's cold and grim due to the SE exposure.

The topography of Jackson Hole Ski Area does not suffer fools. The stereotype casual upscale skier will rarely enjoy skiing there. My impression is that Jackson is an attractive vacation/second home destination to more people for its summer than winter recreation. I'm sure Bob Peters can substitute 30 years of experience for my impression.
post #4 of 15
What makes you think it's the skiing that's the draw? If they do a good job of building the caché, they'll be able to do it. And it seems that it's started...
post #5 of 15
me and my young dirty mind........Jackson Hole: The New Beaver Creek
post #6 of 15
When me and my daughter arrived at JH and had 25 minutes before meeting our grouped we hopped on the gondola for a fast groomer to warm up. We took one of the main blue groomers. I generally am bored by such runs but this one was fast and steep and uneven, lots of fun like a roller coaster. My point is that their main blue groomers down the front are essentially black diamond runs to the Beaver Creak crowd and that this mountain is not good for people who don't want to push themselves. This is among some of the easiest terrain up the mountain(short of casper). Not to mention the only beginner terrain being way down on the bottom in the cold. The rich dont really want thier adventures to be adventurous, they want sudo adventures. Jackson Hole is always an adventure......

Alfonse
post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonse
My point is that their main blue groomers down the front are essentially black diamond runs to the Beaver Creak crowd and that this mountain is not good for people who don't want to push themselves. This is among some of the easiest terrain up the mountain(short of casper). Not to mention the only beginner terrain being way down on the bottom in the cold. The rich dont really want thier adventures to be adventurous, they want sudo adventures. Jackson Hole is always an adventure......
Just curious as to whether you've been to Beaver Creek. I'm not part of that "crowd" but I think it's silly to say categorically that a blue diamond at Jackson is like a black diamond at BC. If you've been to BC and not found anything steep, you weren't looking hard enough.
post #8 of 15
How about if I agree with a few of these "observations" and disagree with a few?

Agree: Our mountain is steeper than most. Blue runs here are steeper than blue runs at a lot of other ski resorts. We have easier skiing, but it's not what people come to this mountain for.

Agree: Our mountain is colder than many. When we get clear-weather inversions (usually during the first three weeks of January), it can be brutally cold on the lower half of the mountain.

Agree: Our mountain is pointed the wrong way. The predominant southeast exposure makes for "variable" snow conditions, particularly during March.

Agree: Most people come to Jackson Hole for the summers, not the winters. Summer visitors outnumber winter ones by ten to one.

Disagree: The contention that this whole tram thing is somehow aimed at de-experting the skiing at Jackson Hole. I honestly wonder how many of you who feel this way have actually skied here. The tram accesses 800 vertical feet of skiing that can't be reached by any other lift. 99% of that skiing is Rendezvous Bowl, which would be called "expert" skiing at most any other mountain ( ) but here at Jackson it's hardly ranked among the more difficult terrain. The other 1% is Corbet's Couloir, which is certainly expert but not really on anybody's five-times-a-day skiing routine. Decommissioning the tram is about safety and money. It's getting old and it won't last forever, that's the safety part. It'll cost northward of $20 million to replace and for a ski area with only 400,000 skier days a year, that's economic suicide. That's the money part. Anybody who thinks that the Jackson Hole ski area without the tram is somehow this enormously different (and easier) ski area just hasn't skied here very much.

Disagree: Lots of generalizations being thrown around here about rich people. Not that I am one, but I do rub elbows with quite a few. Rich people are not a whole lot different from poor people. There are lazy, arrogant, obnoxious slobs in both categories (and everywhere in between). I know a few "investment banker" types out here who I would dare to say could clean the clocks of practically anybody on Epic Ski, whether skiing down the mountain *or* hiking up it.

Don't just assume that a large bank account automatically equates to someone whose morals or values or passions or athletic abilities are somehow out of whack with us more "normal" people.

Any of you who *have* visited Jackson Hole have probably been awed by the natural beauty of the enormous valley at the base of the Tetons. There are literally hundreds of thousands of acres of land in that valley that make up a big part of Grand Teton National Park. How did that land come to *be* in the National Park? A rich family (the Rockefellers) donated it. If they hadn't bought up all that land in the early 20th century and then deeded it over to the Park Service, the northern end of Jackson Hole would probably now be Wal-Marts, Burger Kings, and Home Depots.

To bring it to a little more modern times, the Jackson Hole Land Trust just held its 25th Anniversary party. In that 25 years, the Land Trust has locked up more than 16,000 acres of *private* land in Jackson Hole for scenic, agricultural, and wildlife easements. I do a lot of volunteer work for the land trust and I would venture to guess that those 16,000 acres represent more protected land than the Vail, Dillon, Park City, and Lake Tahoe areas have protected put together. Guess where the money to acquire those easements comes from? Rich people.

Jackson Hole does not appeal to the pampered rich, even with the new Four Seasons Hotel at Teton Village. This is a more difficult climate than some of the other mountain resorts. People who are attracted to Jackson Hole are ones who truly love the beauty - and the higher level of hardship - we have here.

Jackson Hole, like any other mountain community, has its share of problems. The issues never diminish, but this place has a lot of highly intelligent, opinionated, experienced people who have helped and continue to help shape the future of this valley.

This tram thing shall pass. When it does, the Jackson Hole ski area will be every bit as badass as it's ever been.

Okay. I'm done ranting now.
post #9 of 15
Damn... he skis good and he's smart too!!!
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
Disagree: The contention that this whole tram thing is somehow aimed at de-experting the skiing at Jackson Hole. I honestly wonder how many of you who feel this way have actually skied here. The tram accesses 800 vertical feet of skiing that can't be reached by any other lift. 99% of that skiing is Rendezvous Bowl, which would be called "expert" skiing at most any other mountain ( ) but here at Jackson it's hardly ranked among the more difficult terrain. The other 1% is Corbet's Couloir, which is certainly expert but not really on anybody's five-times-a-day skiing routine. Decommissioning the tram is about safety and money. It's getting old and it won't last forever, that's the safety part. It'll cost northward of $20 million to replace and for a ski area with only 400,000 skier days a year, that's economic suicide. That's the money part. Anybody who thinks that the Jackson Hole ski area without the tram is somehow this enormously different (and easier) ski area just hasn't skied here very much.
It'd probably to take the loss of lift accessible terrain if there was a means of access to that last 800 vertical (on a side note, part of what gives JH its cachet is that 4k+ vertical - is ownership considering what ONLY 3k+ vertical will do to it's marketing image?)

In the late 80's (the time period that I spent a Winter season there), there was a poma that served that last 800 feet of vertical. Admittedly, it was cranky, and tended to get buried by frequent storms, but the cost of clearing a poma pathway is lots cheaper than building a new tram, and allows JH to still claim in excess of 4k vertical feet.
post #11 of 15
I am not inferring that Beaver Creak is not good for experts. On the contrary, I have heard it has excellent terrain for experts. But its strongest marks are in groomers and cruisers, of the blue variety. Thats the biggest market segment there, kind of like Deer Valley. I have heard that Deer Valley and Beaver Creek alike have low traffic on their really tough terrain especially after storms which would make them an experts delight. Jackson on the flip side is very steep across the board, and simply does not have lots of terrain for less adventerous intermediates. As to what Bob said that we are generalizing it is true. But I still believe that the largest segment of the skiing population prefer groomers, particularly blue ones, whether they are rich or poor. I was not trying to Demean Beaver Creek. They are like Deer Valley I think really solid in each segment..... beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert.

Alfonse
post #12 of 15
As for the tram I said the same in a previous thread. The Tram is like the single chair at Mad River, you have to really want it, which weeds out the less than hardcore folks.....
post #13 of 15
Been only once in early January, Blue, beautiful skies, colder than awitches t...., and FANTASTIC skiing on the Blue Groomers (nice fall lines and steep in parts).

Yep, and I came down the CHICKEN side of the Couloir at the end of that DAMN Tram (pain in the arse long wait and ride)!
post #14 of 15

BC is a fun place to ski!

One of my most fav times each season is early Dec when the WC comes to town. I think this is because it's still really early in the season - I'm pumped, I have lots of free time = free skiing, the snows starting to kick in, I got thru the first holiday & I get to watch the best in the world! Daron seems to love BC as does Bode and the Herminator. Their run is loads of fun, plus then there's all of the other diamond skiing that rarely gets skied. That said, I must get to JH to experience the best. Thanks for the pics.
post #15 of 15
Well I worked at Beaver Creek. And yes the easy blues at JH are blacks at BC.
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