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Mantras and mounting

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
http://www.untracked.com/highlight-175704.html

So where(center mark, off center mark) are they being mounted (for you, by you)?
post #2 of 19
Mine were mounted by my local ski shop where I bought them????
post #3 of 19
most people are mounting them 1 to 1.5cm back as Volkl has advised shop techs to do

seee the Volkl shop tech manual (or have your shop mount them)
post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquawMan
most people are mounting them 1 to 1.5cm back as Volkl has advised shop techs to do

seee the Volkl shop tech manual (or have your shop mount them)
So Volkl admits that the mount point is too far forward and is suggesting to shops that the Mantra be mounted 1 to 1.5cm back? Is this for all lengths?
post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
Speaking with "Charlie" at Volkl, i had the impression that
the Mantra is not marked forward (as in Park and Pipe), but
they certainly are aware of folks playing with the line.
Sounds like the line is equivalent to a later Explosiv.
(Versus the early ones which had a wayback mark).
post #6 of 19
Mine are mounted right on center. With this setup, I did not experience tip dive or get knocked around in the crud. The tips were very controllable going through bumps and the tails did not wash out. I don't see the harm in mounting 1 to 1.5 cm back, and good results were reported by troutman with that mounting position. I wouldn't suggest getting much beyond that.

Squawman has mentioned that Volkl suggests suggests mounting back of the center line. I know the early skis were marked for a 3.6 mm hole and that was wrong. Can anyone confirm that Volkl actually suggests mounting back? And who ever gets to see this mysterious Volkl tech shop manual anyway? Sure would be nice if the information was more public.
post #7 of 19
The mount point, as marked on the ski, is not incorrect. Völkl says this is the most versatile mount point - including groomer performance. If your Mantras are spending most/all of their time off-piste, mount 'em back a little bit.
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
Squawman has mentioned that Volkl suggests suggests mounting back of the center line. I know the early skis were marked for a 3.6 mm hole and that was wrong. Can anyone confirm that Volkl actually suggests mounting back? And who ever gets to see this mysterious Volkl tech shop manual anyway? Sure would be nice if the information was more public.

the guy posting on TGR as "Squaretail" is actually a Volkl executive who chimes in to clear things up

anyone buying a Mantra should read this entire thread to make sure it gets mounted right

[CLICK]

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...light=mant ra

[CLICK]

I didn't save the email from Volkl, but I got a response that said they would mount it 1-1.5cm back for people over 200lbs

if you want a written confirmation, email them here:

volklski@voltec.com



p.s. in terms of sizing, I've gone back and forth as to whether I should upsize to the 191cm ski since I'm 6'1, 200 lbs, but the Volkl guy I spoke with is 5'11, 225 lbs and he rides a 184cm Mantra and said he had absolutely no stability issues whatsoever, so I guess that's as good an answer as any
post #9 of 19
Well this sucks! I am mounted on center. While it has not been a problem, it does make me wonder what I am missing. How much harm in plugging and moving the setup? The downside of getting them first.
post #10 of 19
I just got an email from a Volkl Canada rep that said the marked mount point is what you should be using. I'm thinking of the 191 and am 6ft 170lbs, so don't think it makes much diff with the longer ski anyway. I doubt I'll experience any tip dive....
post #11 of 19
yea, that's news to me. with the dynastar 8800 I was advised to mount 1.5 cm back.
since I am getting the 177 mantra, I am definitely mounting em 1.5 back.
post #12 of 19
cirquerider, I demo'd the 184 and it was definitely mounted on the mark where yours were, and I *didn't* experience tip dive, but that's after only skiing them on one demo day (admittedly in only 10 inches of newly cut up pow)

if you ski'd it all last season and had fun, don't worry about it

for newbies with unmounted skis, think about moving them back 1cm or so
post #13 of 19

WTF - Just Ski 'em

A lot has already come up on this. As I have stated, I measured and then came up with the same mounting point. I skied my Mantras probably 13 full days at the end of last year and didn't notice a difference. Realize that I might have received a pair that were marked correctly or incorrectly, I'm not sure. But I'm not going to pull my bindings off to find out. One thing to realize is that I mounted Speedpoints on my Mantras, so there maybe something there. Also, I felt/witnessed no tip dive in varying conditions (crud, pow, corn, etc.). Also, to all of you, make sure and use the 4.1 bit.

Cirquerider, if they felt/rode ok (which definitely seems to be the case based upon your earlier posts) you're fine. Stop worrying about. The Bro's at Squaw aren't going to be at the bottom of KT22 with a pair of calipers measuring whether or not you are 1 or 1.5 cm forward/back. And I doubt any Maggot (or PSIA groomed run skier) will be able to tell from the lift "Dude, his bindings are mounted too far forward on his Mantra's, Bummer. Now he can't land his 50 footers right.":

Just ride 'em and let your lines speak for themselves.


HB
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarkinBanks

Just ride 'em and let your lines speak for themselves.

HB


Amen!

(and cirquerider, just think, with 184 Mantra's mounted on the mark, you've got at least 2cm's more in the front than Jim S's 180 Explosiv's ...so when you guys race each other in a Chinese downhill off the left side of the Palisades at Squaw, you've got more under you than he does ;-) )
post #15 of 19
Squawman, I not only didn't have tip dive, I could actually press the tips while breaking through drifts and deep snow as a means of speed control. The forward pressure could also be used to establish rebound. One of the best attributes of the Mantra to me was the ability to control depth. They can be allowed to come up on plane, or run a little deeper and slower where desired just by small changes in weight and forward pressure. Deep? I have been up to my arm pits on sloughing steeps and these skis just told me to get better to keep up. I went over the handlebars once as a result of banging into a chest deep drift too deep and my upper body just carried over the top, and once going through a tree well and having the right ski release. I can see where landing air in powder would be better with a mounting farther back, but I don't do a lot of air, let alone big air. In AT walk mode, the forward fulcrum point seems to help keep an unweighted tip up on forward steps in deep snow. Keeping the tip moving up and forward has always been the problem if the tail does not drop. Once you are bogged down, kicking the tip free can be exhausting. I can see how a farther back mount position may allow the ski to remain more weighted during the step, but a 1-2 cm difference is hard to quantify.

So with the mount position on center, I have NO tip dive, and have found the skis perform well up through hardpack. I blamed the Fritschi setup for making the skis nervous on ice as I get more lateral flex at the binding interface than with a conventional binding, but it was also lack of tuning. Spring backcountry on suncupped snow was probably better with the center mount position. It was interesting reading Squaretail's comments on how the construction of the ski contributes to lateral stability with the wider profile and larger sidecut, and how the heritage of the Explosive continues in this ski. I was on these skis March, April and May with less frequent BC outings in May, June and early July (August just isn't worth it). I doubt that I will move the mounting position without really analyzing what is going on. Somehow, analyzing and skiing don't seem to mix, but I'll give it a try. This stuff is all so subtle, I doubt if I'm good enough or aware enough to figure it all out.
post #16 of 19
cirque, just leave the set-up alone, you're fine as it is

I demo'd the 184 with Marker demo bindings which as we all know royally bite, and took them up to speeds off the Palisades that were somewhat dangerous and never felt any instability at all, even when straightlining

the extra 10cm in the shovel over the Explosiv really makes a difference (makes the 184 ski larger/longer than it is)

I'd be willing to bet that your Freeride setup alone (so high up off the ski and with the telltale Fritschi play in the toe) would contribute FAR more imbalance problems than moving it back 1 cm

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...reeride+wiggle

the fact that you are up that high off the ski and mounted it on the mark and still had little tip dive tells me that the original mark was probably fine for most people

but any ski with a stiff tail like the Mantra can support a mount back from the mark to make it ski longer (that's my compromise over getting a 191....mount the 184 back a little bit to get more shovel space up front so I get the best of both world's...a longer riding ski but not so long that steeps/chutes/trees are a problem)
post #17 of 19
Cirquerider, did you ever get hold of the Völkl shop manual?

I had never considered mounting bindings in any other spot than the manufactuer's midsole mark, and I mounted skis for two years at Jans in Park City. That was too many years ago, and I've been out of the loop for a long while. I just bought some 191cm Mantras and will probably get the Railflex binding. I'm still sking on 10 yr old Markers, so being able to move the binding on the ski is new to me. I'll be skiing them about 50% off piste (teaching 6 yr old to ski), with some cat skiing in powder and crud now and again. I'm 6' 3", 195lbs and a strong skier, although not so aggresive these days. If I mount the Railflexes 2cm back from the line, that means I would still be able to move them forward up to 1cm in front of the line, correct?

Has anyone done something similar to this?
post #18 of 19
Well, this thread is 4-years old.  The first generation Mantra benefited from mounting a little behind the manufacturer's mid-sole mark.  I'm not so sure that was applicable after 2006. -07 model came out.  I remounted the mantras with Marker Duke bindings and mounted them at -1.5 cm.   I wouldn't necessarily recommend doing that for newer models.   Railflex gives you the chance to play with different positions fore/aft, as long as the binding is stiff enough for your taste.
post #19 of 19
Oops, this is the first forum I've ever joined and I never even thought to look for a date on the thread. Are you inferring that the Railflexes are not very stiff? A friend of mine just bought new Mantras and will mount Duke bindings. He just should mount them on the line? Thanks for the quick response.
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