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plug boots

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 

I need your help. I am looking for a new pair of plug boots.
My current boot is the Tecnica Race XT plug.
I want a new model. My list includes the following plugs:
Atomic Race Tec plug (or Ti)
Rossignol R2005
Nordica Dobermann WC 150
Tecnica Diablo plug

I would like to know two things.
First, i would like to know how many degrees of forward lean these boots have with the rear spoiler removed.
Second, i would like to know the height of the boot board of these boots in the toe and heel (out of the box).

I think it would be great for us to have a list of these numbers so that everyone interested will know where to find them.

One more thing: i noticed the Rossi plug has a crested sole. Does it do anything? I think they are trying to convince people that it will add energy to the boot as it will rebound from the G-force loaded into it in the turn. What do you think?

Thank you.
post #2 of 45
There's been a lot of talk about the Diablo, RT, and Dobie in other threads, including some information on the measurements you seek. I agree that it would be nice to consolidate all of this information, but for some reason, it seems hard to find.
post #3 of 45
Thread Starter 
Yes it is hard to find but not impossible. And we need accurate numbers!
post #4 of 45
I belive this turned into a good thread about Plug boots


post #5 of 45
post #6 of 45
go in and try some on. see what works best for your foot.
post #7 of 45
Thread Starter 
I only need to know the numbers guys. I know a lot has been said about the new plugs and i have read those threads.
So i would like to know those numbers. The reps should help us! Yeah, the Atomic rep, the Rossi/Lange rep, the Nordica rep and the Tecnica rep should know the numbers. And this would be good to know for anyone interested in those numbers and i am sure i am not the only one.

I hope they hear me!
post #8 of 45
Second thought here: Shims & lifters. Skied in the formula then the XT then the Dobie 150 & have played around a ton w/ the stance. my guess is that you are looking zero out the angles and get more of a 'gas pedal' feel.

I would choose the boot you like best in terms of design/fit, have it fit by a good bootman (or bootwoman) then either raise the toes on the bindings or the boots with shims & lifters respectively. I suspect that you will find this works better than messing around inside the boot. Also by going the shim route, on the bindings, you can change you position on each pair of skis as desired.

This is esp. true given the boots you're considering the dobie/atomic/tecnica is really same boot w/ different color choices. I think you are better off addressing the issues on the plates/lifter level..just a thought
post #9 of 45
Until today, I wasn't up on plug boots, but thanks to Atomicman, I'm in the know!

Try this link. They have a wide selection of plug boots and may be able to answer your technical questions.

post #10 of 45
I have made notes on the Boot Lifters discussion a few days back. I´m sure you have it too but to start with (extracted from the info of logruve, Betaracer, and...):

Atomic TR Ti: bootboards either 25 or 30 mm, precisely older 30/11 mm, present 25/14 mm.
Diablo: bootboard 32/12 mm
RT: forward lean 12-14 (as much as 16 should be possible) degrees, ramp 4-5.25
post #11 of 45
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies guys.

irip, yes i plan on using shims but i am also interested to know the numbers. You said you have the Dobie 150. Hoe does it ski compared to the XT? Don't just tell me it skis so much better. It probably skis better, but please tell me what were the differences?

checkracer, that is what i am looking for.

Question: is the new boot board available for the 2006 Race Tec Ti and CS? Or is it only optional? Betaracer can you help?

OK so we have:

Atomic RT Ti
12-14 degrees of forward lean (12 without the spoiler i suppose)
bootboard: 25/14mm or 30/11 (4-5.25 ramp)

Nordica Dobermann WC 150.
16 degrees of forward lean

Diablo Race R:
18 degrees of forward elan (16 probably without the spoiler)
bootboard: 32/12mm

Rossignol R2005 - no info yet.

The additional info is what i have been told by a high-end bootfitter who has been mentioned on this site.

I will probably come up with new info in a couple of days, but if anyone can help...
Also if someone believes some numbers are not the true numbers, please inform us.
post #12 of 45
XT vs Dobie WC 150

1st the Dobie wraps around the foot much better; this is due to a better cuff & a much more substantial liner. The XT uses, as you know, a felt/cloth liner. the xt liner tends to feel better at fist then looses it support quickly. Dobie uses a leather-cork liner /w much firmer padding. Needs to be heated a little first to break-in, but gives much more beefy support
2nd the xt by design (hi back of lower shell & only rivit bolts on the inner & outer ankles) tends to be stiff at first then jerky in terms of flex & rebound. The Dobie uses a 4 bolt system (vs xt's 2) both sides of the ankle (just like xt) then in the back above the heel & below the spoiler. Dobies bolts are also much bigger & out of the box allow much less flex & slop. Right outta the box the Dobie is a non-flexing beast. But w/ the aid of a good boot fitter, you can soften the flex (grind deep U or V shapes). This makes the flex softer,solid, & progressive during the entire turn. While Nordica does not recommend removal of both back rivits, you can remove the top bolt & further adjust the flex (think SG, DH, long turns, cold days) or leave all the rivits in place (SL, warm spring races, firmer snow).
post #13 of 45
Thread Starter 

Race XT17

Thanks for your answer. But how did they perform on the hill? They are both plugs, so i think both can push a ski hard. Where did you notice a difference? You told me the Dobermann fits better, has 4 rivets and a better liner. I agree with what you said about the liner. As far as flex goes, when i flex the boot it makes no sound, you don't hear the plastic.
So, what can you tell me about their performance on snow? Do you believe in that "zero-preload boot" thing? I have read somewhere that the cuff of the XT odes not make contact with the lower. I don't know what to say, but after i close the buckles, the cuff makes contact with the lower so... When i don't have the boot on my foot, the lower part of the cuff does not make contact with the lower, but when i have it on it makes contact. I suppose it should make contact when i'm on the hill and not when it is in the closet

The truth is that i started this thread because of what i had read on this site. You can find a lot of info about the XT but unfortunately for me (and the XT) it is not at all encouraging (to say the least). The only one who thinks there is nothing WRONG with this boot is Jeff Bergeron.

If there are others who have skied the XT and also one of the boots i mentioned, please share your experience with me (with us).
post #14 of 45
There is nothing wrong with the XT. It is a good boot, yet the tecnologies have changed. The XT feels low like a sprinters shoe & responds to quick, sudden movements. I actaully cut the crap out of mine & use it as an all mtn rig.

The dobie is a diff.story. While it is based off the old (70s) grand prix. It came into it's new version about the time the formula (plug version of the XT) was being phased out. Esp. w/ a toe raise (boot or binding) the Dobie makes you feel the entire running length of the ski as if it was your own foot. It also feels much taller. Expect to feel like it comes up to your knees. The result is a boot that craves carving w/o any skid & gives even pressure to the ski throughout the turn...the XT/formula responds better to the snappy, pivot/skid SL turns of say 1999-2000, the Dobie only wants to round mini - GS turns. The dobie does v. poorly on fat skis where pivoting is involved. It just wants to hug the radius of the ski & will tend to "chunder" when skidded.

Both are good boots: XT for those looking for a All-mtn carve/pivoter ; Dobie for hard snow racer turns. The dobie makes any race ski feel like it was just tuned & the XT makes an all mtn or fattie snappy & quick. XT rocks in the crud/fall line zone.
This is the reason tecnica & dolomite have phased the XT out for racers & upper-level groomer skiing.
post #15 of 45
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot! So the XT is better for someone looking to skid the turns. The DObermann is a carving boot and it is what i am looking for.

I heard the Diablo plug is made after the Dbermann. Same lower and a tecnica cuff. I also heard it has a similar liner to the Dobermann (lace-up leather liner). SO this boot should rip. Let's not forget that Tecnica bought Nordica. In the first season on the WC, the Diablo won the SL and GS titles on the Women's Tour.
Did you try on the Diablo? I am curious if the fit is similar.
The Dolomite Z-Race and Z-130 look very good. I heard they are made after the Diablo. At least the cuff adjustor is identical. So they should be very close to the Diablo Race 130
post #16 of 45
better question for you: where are you in the country?
post #17 of 45
Thread Starter 
West. I also know you recommend PJ Dewey and i think he is a great bootfitter. I also noticed that on his site he says he opened a shop (i don't know exactly where) it is on the West Coast.

Three questions for you: how does the Dobie handle skidded SL turns compared to the XT? I am not racing but i want a boot that can help me with skidded turns. From what i have read, it seems the XT is better.
And also could you tell me how does the DObie handle SL carved turns? YOu said it likes most mini GS turns.
How do they handle soft snow conditions? I am really interested to know if the DObie is more forgiving or not than the XT.

The last question is probably the most important: Do you think the Dobie is a much better boot, so i should throw away my XTs or they are comparable? Is the difference on snow so big that i should change my boot? I have only a couple of days on mine. But i could change my boot it if you think it's worth it.

One more thing: i plan on using the boot for free skiing, not racing, but i will ski quite aggressively and i also like to carve. I also enjoy skidded SL turns in the fall line.

Thanks again. I hope i'm not asking too many questions.
post #18 of 45

xt vs the Dobie

OK here is me skiing in the XT from a couple seasons ago:


Bottom Right corner of page. This was from the ski press test a few years ago @ Mount Saint Anne
post #19 of 45
the Dobie is the way to go if you are only going for the gold on the race hill. It will amp you mistakes instead of help them. The dober does not respond well to the skid, pivot, smear or other less than carving tech

The XT I would keep, but consider softening the flex: this made it a ton more fun & let me ski it everywhere. It pivots & carves well.

& yes PJ & Todd are the bomb! Catch them if they are still in Hood!
post #20 of 45
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice. From what you said, i should keep my XTs. It seems to me the Dobie is NOT a good choice for free skiing.

Are you still using the XT? And where did you cut them? I would cut the lower (about 1cm) on all sides but i don't find the boot too stiff, i have the XT-17 which is the softest plastic. You probably have the XT-24, don't you?

Question: why do you think Tecnica changed the XT? It seems it should not have been changed.
The successor - Diablo Race is not as low volume as the XT and fits higher volume feet better. This is what Jeff Bergeron said in one of his threads! Tecnica actually increased the forward lean of the Diablos ( 2 degrees from what i know) and reduced the ramp ( 2 degrees from what i know).
post #21 of 45
RX-7.... listen... no one on here can tell u the right information as it hasn't been provided.

I need your weight, height, age, strenght (squat), what type of skiing you do, snow conditions u spend the most time in, avg temperature in the winter your skiing and pretty much your underwear color... ok u get the point... I can give u advice, but not without info!!

Honestly anyone buying the Nobermann 150 plug boot better be weighing in at least 215 and squating 3 plates a side and skiing/racing hard snow.
post #22 of 45
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
OK here is me skiing in the XT from a couple seasons ago:


Bottom Right corner of page. This was from the ski press test a few years ago @ Mount Saint Anne
Nice shot Chief!
post #23 of 45
the XT workx better w/ a pivot or old school (freeskiing) turn w/ skis w/ less cut

the Dobie works the newer the sidecut to the max & only reponds well to even, higher level pressure & better (than mine!) techinque

Hey Toad: you made my day (& ego a little larger), I weigh 140 & sqt 4 plates a side!
Yet the boot still had to be cut a ton & I could have gone w/ a lesser boot in the dobie line, but wanted the 2 rivits in the back to be able to remove/replace!
post #24 of 45
"It seems to me the Dobie is NOT a good choice for free skiing."

post #25 of 45
I'd disagree... the Dobermann 110 Pro or 100 is a great freeride boot. Just not everyone wants to spend the 200 bones to get it custom fit.
post #26 of 45
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Proneax
"It seems to me the Dobie is NOT a good choice for free skiing."

It was the WC 150 i was talking about. The Pro 130/110 are probably much better choices for freeskiing, but they have a wider last and a different liner (not the lace-up flow liner).

Toad, i will give you the info you wanted, but i didn't do that earlier because i wanted just to know the numbers for the boots. But now i want to know more
OK, so: 160lbs, 5'9, 23, freeskiing mostly, hardpack
If you have info about the boots i mentioned in my first post, please share it with us. I am especially interested in the Diablo WC, the XT's successor.
I heard the Diablo WC is essentially a Dobermann lower with a Tecnica cuff. In another thread i have read that it is not as stiff as the Dobermann. Both the Dobermann and Diablo have dotted lines indicating the places whare the lower should be cut to soften flex.
I also know the Atomic plug is similar to the Dobermann, the only important difference is a larger toebox. I also heard the Dobermann/Diablo have a better liner than the Atomic.

I thought i should mention my skis too: Volkl P60 WC. So i need a boot to push the skis hard!
post #27 of 45
I would agree w/ thetoad!!!

The 110/100 are much better boots for free skiing.

My boot Quiver (a ski quiver was simply not enough)
Dobie WC 150: racing, gate training & used when racerchic wants to bomb the hill on her SG/DH boards & my job is keep up. 15 days per year
Tecnica Icon Comps:my bread & butter boot. All mtn boot. I have raced in this boot when it was minus 20 & had to stand on hill all morning waiting for start (last year of masters class 1 baby!!!) DFL. Mostly use for freeskiing on/off trail. 50-60 days per season
Tecnica XTs: old fav. Usually start season in them as they are really cut down for freeskiing & thus do not punish early season errors. 3-5 days/year
does wonders in slush w/ butta flex

***Tecnica Diablo Fire: this boot is currently in the on deck circle in the rotation. I won them @ ASRA finals a season ago (shameless skiracer.com plug!). Was going to sell them but boots in my small size can be diff to find

the XT will most likely be retire & striped for parts this fall
post #28 of 45
There are more important differences between the Nordica Doberman and the Racetech than the largeer toe box. Hinge pivot location is the biggest, Nordica doesn't have any.
post #29 of 45
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
The dobie is a diff.story. While it is based off the old (70s) grand prix. It came into it's new version about the time the formula (plug version of the XT) was being phased out...
Afaik, the Grand Prix was a direct successor to the old Alfa/Alpha of the early 70s. The last year of the Grand Prix was 1999/2000. Next season the Dobermann appeared, at least as a retail boot and in the catalog, both "Med" (which was stiff as hell, maybe the later 160) and "Soft" (which was stiff, 150?).
post #30 of 45
Thread Starter 
I tried on the Diablo plug today. It is called the Race R. It looks exactly like the retail model. The first visible difference is the liner. It has a lace up flow liner very similar to the Dobermann. I put it on first

First impression was very similar to what i had experienced with the XT. IT wrapped my foot pretty well out of the box. I do have a narrow foot. But after a few minutes i felt pain just above the mid foot (outer part).

I also brought the XT with me. I tried it on side by side with the Diablo. The latter felt better. What i mean is that it felt it was holding my foot a little better. The reason is that the Diablo liner is new and the Xt liner has been used. I had an idea. I took the lace up liner from the Diablo and used it on the XT. I put it on. Wow! what a difference! The fit has changed dramatically. I couldn't believe the fit of the XT. It was holding my foot better tahn the Diablo. So i went and bought a pair of lace-up liners.

One more thing. One of the main reasons which made me decide NOT to go with the DIablo is that this boot has an incredible amount of forward lean. A lot more than the XT. Jeff Bergeron is the man! He stated very clearly that the DIablo has more lean than the other plugs http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...3&page=6&pp=30
Also you can see that the Diablo is higher volume than the other plugs.

So i decided to keep my boot and buy a lace-up leather liner. This boot has only a couple of runs so it lightly used.
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