Quiz Answer #1
Due to time constraints (as time is money
: ) I am going to take a run at this after reading through ILE without using references to specific quotes. If I fail to get the point across and not able to move us all closer to an accepted nomenclature (not a passing grade from Rick) then I will go back, pull out the quotes and go at it again.
First Rick defines "Da Turn"
|My personal premise is that a turn represents one complete arc, and that the beginning, end, and shape of a turn is solely identified by the direction of travel of the skis. The brief moment in which edges are disengaged and CM passes through neutral represents the transition period between separate turns and that transition can happen at any orientation to the fall line depending on the characteristics of the slope and intent of the skier.
We are in agreement that this is a good definition of the ski racing (any ski turn really). We have only one area of contention.
We don't really use the concept of COM as we see the center of mass as a stationary point in anybody, it doesn't move. This is an example of Center of Mass while a man or woman is standing (and it is important to why women and men ski differently).
When we put a skier in motion, however, the Center of Gravity is what is moving inside of the skier's platform, through neutral and to the other side from turn to turn.
Further we define the Center of Gravity as the balance point between three planes bisecting our bodies. Top and bottom , left and right, and fore and aft.
This is discussed in pretty good detail at You Can Ski
The pictures of (I believe Ron LeMaster) the person demonstrating how to find or feel where the center of mass goes in a turn are pretty interesting. In these three pictures he is rotating his torso to the inside of the turn (WS). I don't know if that was his intent but its right there.
Moving on. In Rick's presentation of ILE he discusses hip counter. We define hip counter as the lateral movement of the pelvis as well as rotation of the pelvis against the direction of the turn (inside/forward). Here is a picture of Hermann in his classic hip counter position.
Yes, this is up on Epic already. Since we are using these sequences here at Epic we hope Robert doesn't mind.
We believe that hip counter produces a very strong sensation of stability due to the rotation of the pelvis inside and forward with the corresponding rotation of the femur in the hip socket - skeletal stacking. We do contend, however, though hip counter produces a very stable stacked position it has its limit and the racer tends to get "Locked" at the maximum rotation of the pelvis and femur. Its stable but stiff. Hermann's dexterity, talent and strength has over shadowed that limitation until Bode arrived on the scene.What's the difference between hip counter and Waist Steering?
We contend that waist steering is the opposite side of the world than Counter. Better put, in waist steering we use the torso to rotate the trunk of the body in the direction of the new turn at or before initiation of that turn. We continue that rotation of the torso towards the new (now old) turn until we start the next.
As in Rick's presentation the CoG passing through the neutral "Moment' as it travels to the inside of the racer at the apex of each turn.
We describe a Waist Steered turn thusly,
The skier loads his uphill inside edge by biasing the inside ski and the outside of his body. Look at LeMaster's picture against the wall, the arm on the wall are the Centripetal forces caused by edging and the ski traveling across the fall line. Though he is biased on his right foot his left side of his body is biased and his pelvis is (or should be) tilted up and forward as well as rotated towards the new turn.
Back to my description (Jeesh!) The skier loads his uphill inside edge by biasing the inside ski and the opposite side of his body (basic T'chi principles). In the fundamental turn the skier simply uses the X-muscle groups of the torso (yes, the IO, EO's and a myriad others) to create a rotational force towards the new turn. The shoulders DO NOT LEAD, they follow the waist (Torso) as does the hips. The skier then advances the outisde ski causing it to "load up" and continues to WS in the direction of the new turn.
As the inside ski is biased the racer then extends off of the bent inside knee/ski and begins the turn the other direction. This technique with proper posture allows for any type of transition, from X-over, to active X-under and inclusive of all P.E.T. turns.In a more advanced WS turn the skier extends off the uphill inside edge with the same force that he retracts the new inside ski of the turn, this has the affect of making the X-over (through or under) very quick. I learned this technique from Miles Fink-Debry (just skiing behind this wunderkin and than asking him about his X-over) and Harold DeBlanc that described to me exactly what he was doing, pushing 'n pulling.
Another contention is that with hip counter the athlete's CoG gets much farther outside his body than with WS. That is simply because we have reversed the skeletal stacking to the other side of the body while getting the bias to the inside ski/uphill edge.
Whether one is employing hip counter (HA) or WS the relationship of the femur to the hip and therefore the pelvis is the same, just opposite sides for achieving the same arc turn.
We believe that with WS we have a greater amount of ROM and balance (once the technique is mastered) than with traditional HA. Yes, again, HA feels very stable but once the femur/pelvic relationship is at its maximum the skier is in a locked stance. Again we maintain that WS utilizes stacking and is as strong once the technique is mastered yet allows for more supple movement, quicker changes in bias (inside to outside ski and back) and enables the P.E.T. turn. We find that coming from a HA turn off of either the inside ski or outside ski is much more difficult than transitioning into a P.E.T. from WS, it is natural.
Here Ron LeMaster discusses Bode's secret
LeMaster points out that Bode is using foot forward unweighting through the transition allowing for his CoG to travel a more direct line. With no disrespect to Mr. LeMaster, we believe that he missed what allows Bode to do that, and it is how Bode uses his torso screwing it in and down towards the new turn (WS).
Now guys, seriously, I don't put myself in anybody's league, however, this is the only montage I can come up quickly showing rudimentary waist skills applied in a race course. Yeah, I know, I'm fat, old and slow!
I am just using this as a placeholder. To get it out of the way, yes, I am bending too much at the waist, my pelvis should be tucked up under me. Yes, I am getting to my inside ski a bit to soon coming out of the delay. Yes, my outside hip should have been brought "through" better. This is, however, early rudimentary WS! Oh yeah, and to put some context in here, I am going about 40 MPH here, no sh#t!
Unfortunately I can't find handily a sequence of Bode, I will keep looking, if anyone has a recent sequence of any of these guys in GS, send me the link.
Two new acromyns to add to the list BTW LOT (Line of travel) and LORO (line of rotational orientation
). In futher coversations with "Don Juan" aka Rick, I will be using this terms.
Okay, that's stab one. Rick, the ball is back in your court.
Also, RicB, I have had both of your recent posts in mind as I write this as well. I hope I have answered your questions, if not, let me know and I will focus more directly on your observations. Yes, I do see that Bode has not yet loaded the ski in the DH picture but from his body position I am sure he is about to. In the picture below you can clearly see that he is biased on the inside ski while the other racers are getting their CoG to far to the inside and are either about to lose their outside ski or in HM case, he does.
**Ted Legity studied Tai Chi with TommyK last summer along with Schlope and other US Team members.DoneThanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting