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Rossi's New Tips & sidecut (2006)

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Just got the new Rossi WC GS skis this past week. Skis now come w/ a blunt tip & new sidecut.

The tip is now more low profile & interesting instead of narrowing and rounding at the tip, the skis actually extend past the contact point on the snow & grow wider/large... should help turning & "cheat" the fis rules as the ski is measured at the contact points of the snow for the radius. Skis are marked as R>21 m.
Sidecut is also more biased toward the tips & infront of the binding's toe vs under the boot.

101 (106 at the widest part of the blunted tip) - 65 - 87 mm in the 181 cm
post #2 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
Just got the new Rossi WC GS skis this past week.

Sidecut is also more biased toward the tips & infront of the binding's toe vs under the boot.
You´re a lucky man. Be nice to them, they´ll do the same.

I´m not quite sure I know what you mean by the second sentence quoted. Could you explain it for me? Thanks.
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
back to the progressive side cut theme: instead of the sidecut being very gradual from the tip until it reaches the midsole of the boot & then getting more dramatic as the tail flairs (having the narrowest portion of the sidecut directly under the boot midsole)
the newer cut has more of a dramatic shape infront of the boot & towards the portion infront of the boot... the taper of the sidecut is much, much quicker starting at the tip...on the snow: the ski pulls you into the turn early & more at the toes instead of skidding the tips & standing on the heels to have the tail save the day
2 skis could have the same numbers, but the rate/taper on the sidecut is much different... it is really obvious when the 05 ski is standing next to the 06 ski
post #4 of 22
ips,

Thanks. I got it right but I wanted to be sure.
I understand there is a straighter middle section with less sidecut. This should make the skis both faster and supportive when pivoting is needed. Afaik, Fischer changed his GS skis that way for the last season.
There seem to be two distinct philosophies in today´s GS skis:
(i) narrower tip, less sidecut (your "the sidecut being very gradual from the tip") but soft tip (e.g. Atomic)
(ii) wider tip slightly over 100 mm, higher taper angle (e.g. Rossi as it seems)

Any more comments on this?
post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
the skis actually extend past the contact point on the snow & grow wider/large... should help turning & "cheat" the fis rules as the ski is measured at the contact points of the snow for the radius. Skis are marked as R>21 m.
This may be new to Rossignol, but this idea is hardly new. Fischer and Volkl have been doing it for 5 years.

It could be construed as cheating ithe FIS rules, but only if it would lower the actual radius to >21m, and I bet it doesn't. Most true WC GS skis have a radius of 24-28m, so moving the widest part of the ski ahead of contact by 2 cm isn't going to drop it below 21m.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 

more comments

Radius: right... most true GS skis have an R around 26 or so... this was interesting b/c clearly the ski will hook up fasteras soon as it is on edge b/c the tip will catch the snow..esp on firmer stuff. Also less cut in the middle & the tail will make for easier exitsout of the turn

I skied a couple of skis that had this sorta shifted cut...most notable a pair of Scott USA's 3 seasons ago: moving the sidecut toward the tip did make the ski whip into the turn a heck of a lot faster

We have several generations of the rossi WC skis (not the consumer ski but the Europa/NorAm/WC skis) in the house now...what is most interesting is from year to year how the most aggressive part of the ski has gone from being the tail to now the tip
post #7 of 22
most all world cup skis for women (and those at the 185ish sizes that are not used at the world cup) have shovels that draw the skis into the turns more readily. generally the guys skis from all the companies have shapes that don't get into the radius so quickly.
post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman
It could be construed as cheating ithe FIS rules, but only if it would lower the actual radius to >21m, and I bet it doesn't. Most true WC GS skis have a radius of 24-28m, so moving the widest part of the ski ahead of contact by 2 cm isn't going to drop it below 21m.
That´s what I had started to write in my previous post but deleted it before posting, mostly to let others have their say. With 106/101-65-87 the radius will be nowhere very near to 21 m.
Quote:
Originally Posted by logruve
most all world cup skis for women (and those at the 185ish sizes that are not used at the world cup) have shovels that draw the skis into the turns more readily. generally the guys skis from all the companies have shapes that don't get into the radius so quickly.
I have been busy collecting the dimensions of any race ski I find. This sounds logical considering the mens´ strength, speeds and course setting but I have also measured shorter skis which were narrow as well. (Sure, Mark doesn´t say "all".) Interesting enough, some of them differ from official dimensions and may be simply one of more shapes used.
I measured a Nordica GS 97-64.5-87/181 cm, a Head GS 98-64-85.5/183 cm, an Atomic sandwich GS 97-65-87/186 cm (improvised measurements, contact points).

ips,
How about the flex? Have you always had skis for the same weight so that you could detect any development in the Rossi "flex philosophy"?
I´d expects it goes generally toward softer but there might be some interesting differences between tip/waist/tail.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 

try this link

This pair came mouted up w/ the solid vist plate (not the rossi plates). I've got a 188 w/ the same set up. ( 100-64-95 ). 188 is a mens skis / 181 is a womens. This ski is for the fiance: see link below

http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/...um=0&adjust=-1


As for the Flex the 181 is "butter" real smooth & even w/ just a tad more in the midsection due to the beef of the plate. I might be able to tell you more but, I doubt I'll get to ski em.
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
should help turning & "cheat" the fis rules as the ski is measured at the contact points of the snow for the radius.
Just another throw-in on that issue: the FIS rules do not measure at the contact points. The notion of a contact point doesn't exist in the FIS measurement system.
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Alright folks: I put the word cheat in quotes b/c i was kidding; no one is advocating that rossi has dodged the FIS regs....more to say the ski will turn easier due to the change in design, hence.................. the obv. topic of the post

I was under the impression this was epicski.com & not realskiers.com
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston
Just another throw-in on that issue: the FIS rules do not measure at the contact points. The notion of a contact point doesn't exist in the FIS measurement system.
Ever experienced a FIS check-up on the radius? If they measure the skis to check how do they proceed?
If no one knows I can ask our people. There were two racers DQed at the last WCS because their DH skis had 43.5 m.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
Alright folks: I put the word cheat in quotes b/c i was kidding; no one is advocating that rossi has dodged the FIS regs....more to say the ski will turn easier due to the change in design, hence.................. the obv. topic of the post

I was under the impression this was epicski.com & not realskiers.com
ips,
No bashing here. We know it was "...". We´re glad you share the Rossi infos.
Btw, are the skis for the girl from the pic of your link? You ski with her? Not a bad company.
Btw2, you don´t mean your GS has a 95mm tail? (100-64-95)
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
I ski BEHIND her most of the time

Yeah the pair I have is another proto from a couple seasons ago & they were playing w/ a huge tail section
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
I ski BEHIND her most of the time
Must be a nice view of the hips in turns and in-between...
post #16 of 22
there is a 1m preperation tolerance for dh skis...43.5 meters, just a half m short, bummer. just your standard math, i can give you the FIS formula if you'd like but it can be found on the sight under rules/regs.
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by logruve
there is a 1m preperation tolerance for dh skis...43.5 meters, just a half m short, bummer. just your standard math, i can give you the FIS formula if you'd like but it can be found on the sight under rules/regs.
Sure, I know, the tolerance is ICR 1.2.1.3. and I also know the formula although I can´t precisely quote the article.
I only was not sure if they just do the math using the dimensions available.
They were possibly older DH skis which were good enough with lots of margin earlier but not now. The radius was not marked on the ski as required. It was a lesson for both the RD guys and the racers.
post #18 of 22
post #19 of 22
It's a side-point to the main thrust of the initial post ... but there is a published FIS method for calculating sidecut radius. It was available on the FIS website, though I'm not sure it's there anymore.

There's a diagram, along with text, which I can't attach, I don't think. Here's the exact text, with my description of what's in the diagram, where relevant:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIS
Formula used for Radius calculation

Radius = L^2 / 2000 x (S + H - 2 x W)
with L = (L1-20%) + (L2-10%)
or L = 0,8 x L1 + 0,9 x L2

[The diagram shows:
W is the full width at the waist
L1 is the distance from the waist all the way to the point of the tip.
L2 is the distance from the waist all the way to the end of the tail.
S is the full width at L1-20%, i.e. 20% of L1 back from the tip.
H is the full width at L2-10%, i.e. 10% of L2 forward from the tail.]

Important: W is measured at the minimum ski width location.

Measurement Procedure:
1. Measurement of W, narrowest width of the ski (or minimum width at ski middle area)
2. Measurement of L1, front length, and L2, back length, from the W location
3. Calculation of L1-20% and reading of its location, measurement of S
4. Calculation of L2-10% and reading of its location, measurement of H
5. Calculation of R, the ski radius
Some previous posts:
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=17913
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=23471
post #20 of 22
I saw the new Dynastar Contact skis and they also have a blunt tip. Must be the new way of thinking in the design department at Rossi and D-star
post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 
picture of the Rossis:

http://www.untracked.com/highlight-175857.html


The above link is the consumer ski no the one we're speaking of FWIW... sorry..Idont have a better link either
post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston
It's a side-point to the main thrust of the initial post ... but there is a published FIS method for calculating sidecut radius. It was available on the FIS website, though I'm not sure it's there anymore.
Sure, that´s it. I wanted to look it up yesterday but couldn´t find it anymore and was not patient enough to do a thorough search. It definitely was there in April. I looked it up then because I was lecturing for some coaches on the new gear and wanted to refresh the knowledge and check it up (normally I use the real contact length in my calculations, not this L1/L2 method).
Thanks for the links as well.
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