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Teaching skis (beginner)

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
At my home area we subscribe to the idea that to teach lower level skiers effectively, we need to be on the same equipment as our students (under 140 cm). Elan, K2, and Head are the only manufacturers I know that produce short adult skis. Does anyone know of another manufacturer that makes these specialty skis?
post #2 of 22
Rossignol does i think (used to anyway). Are you talking same length or same ski (beginner level)? If you just need a short ski, get a short hyper carver - Elan HCX or something along those lines - Atomic Sl:9 might work too. Those skis come very short. I think you can get a 140cm SL:9 and a 146cm HCX. Will your ssd notice 6cm? Lets switch this around - if your ssd was skiing on a 146 HCX and a 140 HCX could they tell the difference? (Not that it matters, just curious). Atomic may also make those 9.10 type carvers still too - I think that they were 138cm with substantial lift and huge tips and tails.
Later
GREG
post #3 of 22
Sporten S-Line?
Pale allround, Pale slalom?
post #4 of 22

wow!

That's short! That's insane! I can see the logic of being on a short ski and my teaching skis were a pair of 156 Stockli SL's (cosmetically beat demos), but at least I could get a few runs between groups and have a bit of fun. They made that ski in a 151 too.

Stockli Raver XXP's are around (radical carving ski), but they start at 153.

Check the race department for some kids (straight sidewall) SL's 140 and they may have some beef left in them (used) ... and cheap.

How much do you weigh?
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
Yuki,
Required equipment. I own a pair of Elan XRS (130cm) but I want to find something a little beefier. I know it sounds weird but they work really well for teaching level 1-4 classes. I thought about junior sl's but was discouraged from using them due to all the problems other men had. Not many juniors are over 200# and jr skis are not designed to carry that much weight.
post #6 of 22
Icelantic 143s, If there is any wiggle room in that 140 requirement. I skied on some of the prototypes and that were a blast. As of last season they were being pressed by Never Summer, so the durability should be top notch.
post #7 of 22
JASP, I know that a number of Copper instructors used the Rossi beginner package which was on their form for use in exactly this situation...
post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex
Sporten S-Line?
Pale allround, Pale slalom?
There are usually some Pale skis on EBay. Some twin tips, to boot! If you can't find them, PM or email me.

My area used to offer a short ski progression lesson program. We taught that with Elan PSXs, usually 133s. I've seen these on EBay, too.
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro
At my home area we subscribe to the idea that to teach lower level skiers effectively, we need to be on the same equipment as our students (under 140 cm). Elan, K2, and Head are the only manufacturers I know that produce short adult skis. Does anyone know of another manufacturer that makes these specialty skis?
Do you have to teach in rental boots, too?
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_918
Do you have to teach in rental boots, too?
No, just the short skis.
post #11 of 22
Atomic makes some 138-140 beginner skis. I learned on E-7's at 140. The e series comes shorter and they are on eBay a lot. I see on least year's wed site Atomic has a c-7 in 138 and up.
post #12 of 22
Sorry, but this whole idea just doesn't make sense. Maybe a pair of 140's would be appropriate for a beginner, but why put yourself on something that is woefully inadequate and inappropriate for you to be skiing on in order to try and teach somebody else? The only purpose I see in having you flounder around with them would be some kind of mind games to make the students think you're really just one of them. If that is what is required, than maybe somebody should do something about changing the requirements. It's this kind of thinking that should have been left behind a long time ago.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Sorry, but this whole idea just doesn't make sense. Maybe a pair of 140's would be appropriate for a beginner, but why put yourself on something that is woefully inadequate and inappropriate for you to be skiing on in order to try and teach somebody else? The only purpose I see in having you flounder around with them would be some kind of mind games to make the students think you're really just one of them. If that is what is required, than maybe somebody should do something about changing the requirements. It's this kind of thinking that should have been left behind a long time ago.
If I, as a ski pro, am unable to make the movements, on equipement similar to my guests, that I am asking my guest to make then i have no bussiness teaching them in the first place.
I also find it to be more fun to ski at slow speeds on gentel terian on my 140 Head Cyclone then my 179 Seth Pistols or my 223 P9s. (RIP 223s)

John
post #14 of 22
It's not a question of whether you can make the movements or not. I can look quite competent on a pair of snowblades. The question is why would you want to in the first place? This is obviously done to get some kind of a message across. It just seems to me that you would be able to teach basic fundamental movements on a pair of your everyday skis that you are comfortable on much more efficiently, if that indeed is the purpose of the lesson. I've seen far to many lessons where the objective is for the student to come away happy regardless of whether they actually learned anything that will be of some use to them.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
It's not a question of whether you can make the movements or not. I can look quite competent on a pair of snowblades. The question is why would you want to in the first place? This is obviously done to get some kind of a message across. It just seems to me that you would be able to teach basic fundamental movements on a pair of your everyday skis that you are comfortable on much more efficiently, if that indeed is the purpose of the lesson. I've seen far to many lessons where the objective is for the student to come away happy regardless of whether they actually learned anything that will be of some use to them.
To some guests the only question may be if I can make the movement or not. A visual learner will do what I do, not what I say. I must demo what I want the class to do. If the guests are on a ski like a 140 Head Big Easy with a radius of 8m and I am on a mid-fat with a 17m radius for us to make similar size and shaped turns I will be useing a different skill blend then my guest.
post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Mac,
I would have to agree with Tief about the maneuvers. I can easily produce exactly the size and shape turn I am asking my students to make. The physical effort is less on the small skis, which allows all of us to progress faster and ski longer. The ability to parallel at that slow speed is within the scope of the group, and for the occasional wedger that is also easier. I view all of my skis as tools that have an intended purpose. Quite honestly the shorties are more fun in that environment. Try some, they will surprize you with their versatility.
post #17 of 22
It sounds to me as though the groups you are teaching are somewhat more advanced beginners if you only have an occasional wedger in your group. I'll admit to being an occasional wedger myself under the right circumstances, such as big, steep moguls.
As far as short skis, excluding race slaloms like Atomics that are very stable in shorter than 160 lengths, Head did make a few different models that went down to around 130's, such as the Cyclone that was already mentioned in a previous post, which I think later evolved into the Cyber 90 and the Big Easy. I also remember Elan making a short training ski a few years ago that was a 120 something. I think it was referred to as the NRT, but I don't know what that stands for, or if they even still make it or not, but I recall hearing that it was actually a pretty decent ski that could be skied by adults. I know that Head has come out with a new ski this year called the Supershape, but I'm not sure about what lengths it comes in. Probably a ski like the Atomic Metrons could be skied in a very short length if they made them that short. We'll have to see what's new for this year, haven't seen enough of the new stuff to really know what's out there.
post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
Mac, Nope, never evers. That's the beauty of the program, they really take off quick. If you have the opportunity come out to Aspen to see the beginner magic program, it would be worth sitting through a lesson. I have narrowed the search down to the Heads since they are beefier than the Elans. Thanks for the info....
post #19 of 22
Is this program similar to the direct to parallel approach that Harald Harb has been advocating for a while now, where the snowplow or wedge is not introduced at all? His reasoning behind this is that once the wedge is ingrained into the skiers' though process, the security of being on two opposing edges is very hard to undo, and tends to creep back into even advanced skier's as a stem in difficult situations like I alluded to in my previous post. At least this is what I understand to be the reasoning behind it. I have heard that a smattering of ski schools have started to adapt it in their own teaching systems, Aspen not being one of them.
I think you'll do well with the Heads. I started skiing on Head skis four years ago out of fustration with some of the other brands I've owned, and I've owned most of them. I hate to try to steer people towards one brand or the other because everybody has their own reasons for skiing on what they ski on, but so far my experiences with them have been very positive.
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Mac, Sorry I was out for a few days and could not get e-mails. To answer your question about PMTS vs Beginner Magic I would say I am not familiar enough with pmts to offer a valid opinion. However, I can offer the idea that to be a complete skier is to be versatile. Less options means less versatility.
post #21 of 22
We use the Elans at our hill...120 and 130 length. Oddly enough, they can handle an agressive adult. We can check them out of the rental shop when we need to teach if we didn't purchase our own.

We've done many a clinic on them and it was funny how many of us refused to turn them back in, but rather stayed out and carved all over the mtn on them for hours. If you keep them carving, they will work for an adult.
post #22 of 22
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