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ADVICE Rossignol Axial 120 T-Plate S Alpine Binding

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I did search

All I get is that they are Look Bindings

My understanding is that this is the same as the Look P12
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/out...?swatch=A120MB

The Rossignol Power 140 T Plate S Binding
My understanding is that this is a Look P-14?

http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/ROS0026/c1/s1/Rossignol-Power-140-T-Plate-S-Binding.html



So besides a minor issue with putting the name Rossignol on my new Dynastar Legend Pro Riders/ Anything wrong with these bindings.



I had originally ordered P-12 ti to go with the skis but they ran out so I got the skis but need bindings.

My DIN Setting will be 9 // these both come with brakes that fit a 97MM Waist. Performance / Lift / Weight are my main concerns.

(And ohh Look cool)



What is the difference between the Power 140 and the Axial 120? Besides Din range?
post #2 of 25
You have it right. And the DIN range is the only difference, AFAIK.
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks SSH:

Just reafferming what I had read. I belive I am going to get the Axial 120's (155$)
I do feel a bit funny about putting Rossi on Dynastar??

I was a classic Dynastar/ Look Nevada's from late 70s till mid 80's
I almost got back there

MTT
post #4 of 25
MTT, you do know they are the same company?
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 

You know what I mean

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
MTT, you do know they are the same company?
Seems bad some how? But hey I am BAD!!

MTT:
post #6 of 25
I know what you mean, actually. I was challenged when the merger happened. More so when they abandoned the turntable at the end of last year.
post #7 of 25
Isn't there a Dynastar version of the same bindings? (Though they might not be available)
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Isn't there a Dynastar version of the same bindings? (Though they might not be available)
Not that I know of. All my skis have Rossi bindings on them. I think they're the finest bindings on the market. This comes after many years thinking Markers were the best. There have been many debates on Epicski about this topic but I simply don't have the problems with Rossi Bindings that I had with the Markers.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Isn't there a Dynastar version of the same bindings? (Though they might not be available)
The Dynastar version says, "Look".
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
The Dynastar version says, "Look".
I know I once ran a search for Look bindings and came up with ones listed as, and labled Dynastar, but also stated they were made by Look. I guess I just assumed that all the models Look makes were also marketed under the Rossignol and Dynastar brands also.
post #11 of 25
Here's an example: http://www.paragonsports.com/Paragon...sive+Lifter+05

However, the binding says "Look" on it. I am all but certain that Dynastar never put their name on ski bindings. Of course, I've been wrong before...!
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 

Support your local store

I ended up getting the Look P12FR's that are the color match for the skis.

The local shop Bobo's had the binding and (gave) it to me for a price close to the internet. The guy @ Bobo's I dealt with is a Dynastar rep, and thought that mounting Rossi Binding on a Dynastar ski would be (BAD CARMA) If you don't have to its just not done! I agree.

If he had not stocked and sold the Looks for good price, he would have been mounting Rossi on my Dynastar’s.

It felt very good to buy something from the local store, rather than walk in with stuff purchased off the net asking them to take care of me!!

MTT
post #13 of 25
I don't know what Dynastars you put them on, but you did give up on the 6mm of lift that the normal P12s have and the T-Plate would have provided a 10mm lift. To each his own, but I found a T-plate for sale without bindings and put it under my P12 FRs to get the additional 10mm of lift.
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler
I don't know what Dynastars you put them on, but you did give up on the 6mm of lift that the normal P12s have and the T-Plate would have provided a 10mm lift. To each his own, but I found a T-plate for sale without bindings and put it under my P12 FRs to get the additional 10mm of lift.
They are putting a 6MM lift plate under them / some want fat skis mounted flat/ I wanted (some) leverage. We talked about it. I am mounting them @80CM .5CM forward/ A good all mountain setup fo me.

MTT
post #15 of 25

Looks? how good really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
Not that I know of. All my skis have Rossi bindings on them. I think they're the finest bindings on the market. This comes after many years thinking Markers were the best. There have been many debates on Epicski about this topic but I simply don't have the problems with Rossi Bindings that I had with the Markers.
You're right Lars, they are the finest and safest.

I've talked extensively with Look (Rossi) reps and even they don't know how good the turntable binding really is or why.

Starting from the Look Navada (1960s) the center of the turntable (if setup properly) is in line with the tibia leg bone. Sideshock from aggressive ski turns comes through the lower leg or tibia. Side pads on the side of the turntable, (in line with the tibia) absorb the sideshock from hard turning.

Thus, the toe does not feel the sideshock from turning. And thus, the toe can be set at a much lower release setting than any other binding and still not pre-release during aggressive skiing. Of course a lower toe setting means easier releases, especially during slow rolling twisting falls.

This principle coupled with a ton of elastic toe piece travel is what has made the look the safest binding on the market for decades.

Yes, they are the lightest binding, yes they have the smallest screw pattern which allows for better ski flex, yes they have the fewest moving parts and tend to last for decades and yes they have the longest elastic travel before release.
Elastic travel allows for long smooth release at lower settings rather than a short abrupt release as with Markers. Markers are very well built bindings but can never compare in safety with the basic design of the Look with its turntable.

Of course to take full advantage of the Look, you'll have to use a lower toe setting than the charts call for. If you're a decent skier and not yanking the skis around give it a try, don't be afraid. If set right, you won't even feel when they release. You'll have to "looK" (pun intended) to see if they've come off after a fall.

The new Rossi Axial (turntable) 140s I just bought don't have the side pads quite like the old models, but I think they will work basically the same.

Also, the toe appears to be a derivative of the old Geze toe (The first toe piece to release straight up). While I don't think it has the elastic travel of the old Look toe, it should work fine in conjunction with the turntable heel.

It would be a shame if Rossi dropped the turntable as a prior post stated. They would loose the advantage that Look has had over all other bindings all these years.
Mike M.
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
I heard from 2 ski shops (Last week) that there is no longer Look Turntable binding. If its not in stock now you wont see it in the future?
I find this strange? (The barrel up the back) with turntable is (LOOK)
Interested to see what they come out with, but who cares!! It will just be another binding, Not the LOOK that has kept them going for 40? years

MTT
What a waste, all those long time turntable experts. Guys who know everything about the binding.
post #17 of 25
Yep. Check out this thread from last season: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=24315
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
I have talked with and seen results from a couple guys with FAT skis. The heel does seem to get sloppy. Some think adding lift to the binding greatly reduces this. Mounted flat/ the simple act of being on edge (On a Fat Ski) does add additional stress to the trurntable parts of the binging.
I am mounting my Looks on (FAT Skis) 97mm Waist. But adding some lift.
We will see (I think they tried to address the isse with the heel with the 05 FR's I purchased.
Anyone got FR's mounted flat (stock) on Fat skis? Having any issues?

MTT
post #19 of 25
I have P12 Ti Lifters (6mm lift) on Dynastar 8800s (89mm waist) haven't noticed any problems and I have skiied them fast on hardpacked groomers to ice to powder to crud. Only prerelease was from landing a drop ackwardly and probably having the DIN a bit low for my weight. They don't feel sloppy railing turns on edge, not to me anyway and I'm coming from years of Salomons.
post #20 of 25
Since they won't be making the turntables anymore, I thought I'd mention for anyone seeking them, that there is a pair of Rossi axial 140s on eBAy, the auction will end this evening and nobody has bid on them. They are new, and the starting bid is only $129. I'd try to snap 'em up myself if I had the cash.
post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 
I am waiting for the UNR Ski swap in Nov/ To spend more on ski stuff/
I bought two used Ski vests from maggot on TGR yesterday (Got my fix for now)

MTT
(Maggot) is an endearing term on TGR?? I do not yet qualify
post #22 of 25

What's left of the Look?

Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Since they won't be making the turntables anymore, I thought I'd mention for anyone seeking them, that there is a pair of Rossi axial 140s on eBAy,
Dang, it looks like whomever is in charge of Look's development dept. just flat doesn't know what they're doing.

First, they eliminated the Look toe with the longest elastic travel of all bindings and went with the Geze toe which Rossi had bought. The Geze toe is a good toe that releases straight up and has a healthy amount of elastic travel so I can accept this.

Second, They eliminated the side pads on the turntable that absorbed most sideshock created during aggrasive skiing. As I stated in a prior post, these pads enabled a way lower toe release setting without pre-release. Now, without the pads, a higher toe setting is a must.

Third, now I see they're eliminating the turntable completely.

It appears they just threw away the three main features that put the "Look" heads and shoulders above all other bindings in regards to retention, performance and safety for decades.

I understand that most people can't look at a mechanical device and understand the principles with which it works. The person that invented the Look Navada and its principes back in the 60s, is probably no longer with the company or maybe isn't even alive any more.

I've thought for years now that Look lacked the marketing that would explain why the look was as good as it was. Could it be that they didn't even know themselves? This is the typical kind of thing that happens when bean counters take charge of a company.
Remember when the Morton Thiocol engineers tried to tell the head bean counters that the O' rings on Challengers SRBs weren't safe in freezing weather but the heads (bean counters) elected not to tell NASA because of cost implications?

Maybe there's some things I don't know about the new Looks but it appears that they are relicated to be just another binding in the crowd.
post #23 of 25
Skiiermike, I tend to agree with you. BTW, it goes directly counter to current marketing trends ("Purple Cow", etc.) and makes the Rossi/Look binding just the same as all of the other bindings. Not a smart move either marketing-wise or technically.
post #24 of 25
If the new Looks/Rossis are no good, just use S916's.
post #25 of 25

New look Looks

I agree with most of the posts, used Looks when I used to race in the 70's and went back to them when I started to ski again a couple of years ago. There is a lot of confusion, more now than ever since in March, Rossignol was sold to Quicksilver. Previously, Rossignol had aquired Look and made the same bindings under both names. Dynamic used Looks as the default binding but didn't market it under their own name. As for the change, I again concur that losing the turntable is a terrible idea. However, I snagged a pair of the new bindings from a rep and they seem to be pretty nice. they claim that
"The Rossignol Axial 120 Ti Pro WB (Wide Brake) ski binding is one of Rossignol's most popular for use with high performance Bandit and freeride skis. The Axial and FKS binding has been redesigned for 2006. The heelpiece's lateral arms are angled down to apply greater pressure to the edge of the ski. This creates more power going directly from skier to ski with less energy loss. The bindings forward pressure has been increased 30%, which dramatically enhances the interface between boot and binding. The increase of pressure influences ski behavoir, which improves rebound and responsiveness.

The 40% increase in torsional stiffness translates into less play between the boot and binding and a dramatic improvement in the transfer of pwer to the snow. The new dual action III toe piece has a reinforced housing in high stress areas, which improves the overall structural integrity. This reinforced housing on the Rossignol FKS and Axial bindings allowed Rossignol to strengthen the torsion bar interface, which facilitates greater torsional rigidity in the toe piece.

The Look/Rossi design also has better contact with the boot than regular hinge-type heelpieces- when you click into an Axial binding, you feel noticeably more connected to the ski than you do in most bindings- steering impulses are instantly transmitted from boot to ski.

Rossignol and Look combine that classic turntable heel with an ultra-modern, ultra-compact multi-directional release toepiece that also has high elastic travel and a solid feel."
More promotional mumbo jumbo from the manufacturer but the bindings do seem to give me more feel.
As for me. I have scooped up a couple or paire of the Rossi axial 140's on Ebay and will keep them around for the future just in case
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