EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Arch pain--with custom footbeds--help
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Arch pain--with custom footbeds--help - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Thread Starter 
I will be on my boots for the next 9 days....let everyone know what I find out.


NOTE: someone suggested my lifestyle or clothing/socks. This was the first think I considered. Definitely not the issue. This is a brain/muscle/tendon/ligament/nerve thing. Either directly physical with me or the way my boots fit my foot OR skiing technique causing strain or movement in a way that causes pain.
post #32 of 55
I saw this pop up again and was re-reading it sans sake. Couple of things jump out.

If your boot fitter did the windlass test ' a lot' then I'm guessing he was finding a very rigid foot. Soften the footbed under the arch still makes sense but also check that the footbed isn't wedged into the boot too tightly on the sides. That will often cause the arch support to be increased and could be the problem. If you wear the beds in a loose shoe and have no issues than it could be it's simply how the bed sits in the boot as opposed to the bed itself.

There was talk of being pushed too far forward and this could also be a big factor especially since you mention you have a short plantar fascia. (Not sure how you made that assessment). Flaring the rear spoiler on the boot back and/or a heel lift may help give an indication if this is the problem.
post #33 of 55
Greg - note that both ant & i have channels in our orthotics that let the tendon in our arches have room to be in.....

We both have different foot problems & from memory our orthotics are even from different material......

But BOTH have those channels in them..... wonder why the podiatrist put them in?

Wonder why he spent time pointing them out to me?

Wonder why my feet have exercises now?

I think I'd see a podiatrist with ski experience & see what they say...
post #34 of 55
Thread Starter 
DiSKI and L7---thanks for looking in and your comments.


Day 1---OUCHHHHH I started with loose unbuckled boots, it was good snow, I was on green runs doing 1000 steps and shuffles to get balance. After 2 hours I had my balance back, but OUCHHH. I took them off, rested, breathed and skied like a champ the rest of the day...no pain???

Day 2-6 with PSIA Examiner. Pain would come and go some runs. Each time I asked examiner what he saw in my skiing. STRESS, PUSHING WAY TOO AGRESSIVE for the terrain. With that, I skied as much as possible with all of my toes pointing to the stars. Ski light, Ski free, don't compact the snow, ski snow like egg shells. Pain would go away.

Day 6-Present---maybe 15 days since. Ice/snow/10.f to 60.f. When I feel the pain---I know I am stressed. I lighten and it goes away. I think I have a pain that will improve (and has according to those I ski with ) my skiing. AKA--Red light--stop skiing this way and do something different.

Best advice this year......to get on edge, rather than point/tip side of foot into the snow-- lift the opposite side. I ski lighter and more flexible than ever---no pain.

Self-diagnosis on the short planter facia---the tendons or muscles under my foot stick out 1/2 inch from the base in a very thin line heel to toe ball. I will be going back to my boot fitter in February. I will give him the history and also mention the great comments in this thread.


Bottom line---If I can make the pain disappear by better skiing, I would rather keep it, to signal when I can do something different. That said, I fear the day when it is solid ICE, my body and mind want to ski the steeps and I cannot force myself to relax. This pain has happened in powder, I don't think it will every come back in this type of snow---I got some great tips in Killington during the Sno-Pro event.

I am also a Catholic: aren't we supposed to have some pain in our lives? But then if the pain goes away, I can have guilt........Hmmm? I will see what Father has to say about this...


I have not tried heel lifts. No pain gives no cause for them at this time. None of my skiing mentors have suggested significant stance/balance issues fore/aft.
post #35 of 55
Thread Starter 
SKIMANGOJAZZ and HaveSkiWillClimb. You both hinted at what may have been the underlying problem.


To further define what I think I was doing without knowing it: Imagine an Eagle CLAWING up a fish with its talons.


If I do the opposite, the pain will eventually go away and my skiing improves. Rather than muscle my way down the slope, I find I am much more graceful. The bitch about that is....I now have to get my anger/stress/exercise out in another way. Damm, skiing is just fun now. Not a chore.
post #36 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregGaspar
The bitch about that is....I now have to get my anger/stress/exercise out in another way. Damm, skiing is just fun now. Not a chore.


ROFLOL
post #37 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
Greg - note that both ant & i have channels in our orthotics that let the tendon in our arches have room to be in.....

We both have different foot problems & from memory our orthotics are even from different material......

But BOTH have those channels in them..... wonder why the podiatrist put them in?
Same for me. The folks at GMOL ground out a narrow channel in the arch for my big toe tendon when they made my new footbeds.

-T
post #38 of 55
I have very similar pain in my arch. and I also have custom footbed. It doesn't happen every day but very frequent and usually early in the day. Until I pull my feet out and massage it for a few minutes then I can ski the rest of the day. Usually after lunch my feet feel much better.

I did notice that I sometimes skied with my toes curled down and not relax but didn't relate that to arch pain until this thread. I also think I tried to edge too much as well.

I'm currently on Salomon Evo 2 and thinking of getting new boots but I'm afraid that new boots will make the pain worst.
post #39 of 55

Short and Sweet

I Have Solomon Pro ModelSC

When i bought them I really liked them, App 100 ski days later I was starting to get arch cramping? PAIN It got progressively worse.
I went to visit Bud @ Snow Wind Sports. He made some real cool looking Custom foot beds for me.
My feet were hurting SOO Much that 150$ did not seem that bad anymore.

Boots feel better than new and I no longer have arch pain.
post #40 of 55
Some of the boot boards also have a small arch built into them. If there is an arch in that as well as having custom footbeds, have the arch on the board ground flatter.

If you feel like you're gripping the bottom of your boots with your toes, then maybe your boots are too big. The fatigue and pain could be from the "death grip". :
post #41 of 55
See a Podiatrist!

My wife suffered pain for the last 2 years had 3 sets of footbeds made, the last pair at a very good boot fitter who made mine (which I have found to be very good). She would be desperate to get her boots off after a hour or two of skiing.

Forward to the end of last year, she went to see a sports podiatrist who did a full motion analysis, video, measuremnets etc after all of that he cast her feet in plaster completely passivley. The orthotics were made at a lab in the USA (we are in UK) there is built in correction for differing leg lengths.

So we went to Tahoe for 2 weeks over christmas, she skiied all day without needing to take the boots off and no pain at all. Her stance and balance are better.

I'm convinced and will be having the same done to get orthotics for skiing and for golf. It's not cheap but the othotics can be refurbished as the upper wears and once the cast has been done additional orthotics can be made for a reasonable price.
post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloxy
See a Podiatrist!

My wife suffered pain for the last 2 years had 3 sets of footbeds made, the last pair at a very good boot fitter who made mine (which I have found to be very good). She would be desperate to get her boots off after a hour or two of skiing.

Forward to the end of last year, she went to see a sports podiatrist who did a full motion analysis, video, measuremnets etc after all of that he cast her feet in plaster completely passivley. The orthotics were made at a lab in the USA (we are in UK) there is built in correction for differing leg lengths.

So we went to Tahoe for 2 weeks over christmas, she skiied all day without needing to take the boots off and no pain at all. Her stance and balance are better.

I'm convinced and will be having the same done to get orthotics for skiing and for golf. It's not cheap but the othotics can be refurbished as the upper wears and once the cast has been done additional orthotics can be made for a reasonable price.
This is a very interesting post, and I've been reading on the web since you posted it about podiatry. Apparantly the big difference is that they make the mold in plaster while you're sitting and the foot is in a non weight bearing state. Ski Boot Docitors do it in foam while you're standing and the foot is under load.

My first footbet was many years ago and it wasn't very good, but it looks like podiatry may have come a ways. Finding a sports experienced Podiatrist would be important.

Hmmm, very interesting.
post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
This is a very interesting post, and I've been reading on the web since you posted it about podiatry. Apparantly the big difference is that they make the mold in plaster while you're sitting and the foot is in a non weight bearing state. Ski Boot Docitors do it in foam while you're standing and the foot is under load.

My first footbet was many years ago and it wasn't very good, but it looks like podiatry may have come a ways. Finding a sports experienced Podiatrist would be important.

Hmmm, very interesting.
My foot beds were created from a mold while sitting holding my knee's to keep the correct vertical alignment, it worked.
post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
My foot beds were created from a mold while sitting holding my knee's to keep the correct vertical alignment, it worked.
Where, or should I say by who? or I mean by a Boot Doctor, Podiatrist?
post #45 of 55

I recomend

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
Where, or should I say by who? or I mean by a Boot Doctor, Podiatrist?
Bootfitters name: Bud Heishman
Shop: Owner/operator Snowind sports
Phone: (775) 323-9463
Location: Reno Hilton, Reno NV.
Comments:
Lostboy: Bud has an extensive resume including working with the US Ski Team race program. Canting by grinding boot soles is a particular specialty.
post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
My foot beds were created from a mold while sitting holding my knee's to keep the correct vertical alignment, it worked.
Mine were done passivley whilst sitting and the boot fitter aligned my lower leg and made the mold without me applying any weight.

The process at the podiatrist takes this to a whole new level, a full biomechanical anaysis is done to see how the feet and lower leg work.Only once this has been done is an impression of the feet taken. This is done with you lying face down on the couch with the feet hanging over the end. The podiatrist aligns the foot to a position he has pre determined and can be reproduced from maks and measurements put on the feet and legs. Once the position is correct he makes a mold of the feet using plaster bandages so producing a rigid impression of the foot. This is then sent to an orthotic lab who produce the orthotic to the prescription supplied by the podiatrist. It has corrections built in for leg length, anglation etc. The more rigid part forms the heel cup and arch support, on top of this is a foam insole on which the foot sits (this is a sports orthotic). I think some just go under the heel and arch. The foam insole may wear and can be replaced to refurbish the orthotic.

I don't think you can comapre this to what you get at a boot fitter no matter how good. Its more akin to having glasses frrom an optometrist rather than buying them from the supermarket.
post #47 of 55
I just have to chime in here....A gait specific "sports" orthotic is just that.
There are certain midfoot to forefoot aspects that just don't belong in a ski boot specific foot orthotic. As classic "Root" type gait dynamics happen, the first met needs to drop and stiffen in order for that ray to act as a lever arm to propulse the body. When we're in a ski boot, this "phase" never happens! So why do we need a gait type orthotic in our ski boots?! The ski boot orthotic has a dynamically different type of midfoot to forefoot contour than a classic podiatrist supplied orthotic. Also, in order to "calm" the affects of abduction (toe out stance), a forefoot varus is usually in order.
post #48 of 55
My orthotics were made with my foot hanging in mid air, and a plaster cast taken. Also my walk and run were videoed by the podiatrist.
these orthotics are brilliant.

I since had footbeds made by a "Masterfit university" bootfitter,and they were appalling. Appalling when compared with my podiatrist orthotics, anyway. I have used them for a total of about 4 hours. Never again. I didn't want them, but he insisted they'd be great. As soon as he pushed my foot down into the mold to make them, I knew there'd be problems. He evidently didn't understand feet like mine, even though he saw my orthotic, and we spoke at length about my issues.

yes, my orthotic is made for walking. It's not designed for ski boots at all. But the balance, and comfort, and absence of foot and ankle pain I get from using them is phenomenal.
It's a very aggressive orthotic, and designed to rehabilitate my feet and ankles. These orthotics don't even have a forefoot section, so they slide a bit. but I seriously do not think I could ski without them.
post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by I:)Skiing View Post

Sibhuskhy--and L7,
THis year in my new boots and beds I was in mogles and while the pain was less, it was there. I relieved it by stopping and taking pressure off each foot alternating. After 2-3 minutes, I was good to go again. After 2-3 hours of this, it went away completely?????

This describes exactly what I am going through right now.

post #50 of 55
Ten year bump. Must look back and see what I said back then...
post #51 of 55

I have terrible pain in my arches.  From what OP of this old thread said, it seems to me I have a similar problem.

 

I have Technica Phoenix maxes. I've had them for around 5 years.  When I first wore them, on the first trip up, the pain was ridiculous, jumping off the lift ridiculous.  I ended up loosening the buckles and breaking them in.  The next time out they were fine.  They've been fine for years.

 

Then this year comes, first time out I sprain my calf muscle, and can't ski, I have to stop every twenty feet then ski in pain.  If I pointed my foot down it would kill, and it took a couple weeks to heel, I could feel somewhat of a knot, so I"m pretty sure it was a muscle in the calf.  I think the snow was a bit hard to ski in, and I was skiing in the backseat.  I did some drill where you lift the inside ski and got my balance back.  

 

I go skiing again, and just putting the skis on, the arches of my feet are killing me.  One run and I couldn't do another.  It feels like there is a gap underneath the middle of my foot. My boots were fitted by a certified boot fitting outfit, but I think they may be a little narrow, and they do have some space under the middle of my foot.  I did some test and it looks like I have medium to high arched feet.

 

I know I"m out of shape, but they feel like I'm being crushed as soon as I start walking in them.  I don't get it because they were fine for years, except when I first got them.  I just want a working solution, but it might not be that easy : ).   Is there something to order online that will fill the gap underneath my foot?  I have no idea what's going on and it's painful so it's pretty frustrating.

post #52 of 55

The answer is to take them to a boot fitter, preferably someone who is a certified pedorthist.  A place like that should have the equipment that will show graphically how the bottoms of your feet contact a flat surface.  I always thought I had a pretty high arch, but it turns out I don't.  I know that having the wrong amount of arch support will make for a very painful day.  A good fitter can easily make your boots wider too.  This is not something you want to fool around with on your own, you can easily make things worse.

post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by like2ski123 View Post
 

I have terrible pain in my arches.  From what OP of this old thread said, it seems to me I have a similar problem.

 

I have Technica Phoenix maxes. I've had them for around 5 years.  When I first wore them, on the first trip up, the pain was ridiculous, jumping off the lift ridiculous.  I ended up loosening the buckles and breaking them in.  The next time out they were fine.  They've been fine for years.

 

Then this year comes, first time out I sprain my calf muscle, and can't ski, I have to stop every twenty feet then ski in pain.  If I pointed my foot down it would kill, and it took a couple weeks to heel, I could feel somewhat of a knot, so I"m pretty sure it was a muscle in the calf.  I think the snow was a bit hard to ski in, and I was skiing in the backseat.  I did some drill where you lift the inside ski and got my balance back.  

 

I go skiing again, and just putting the skis on, the arches of my feet are killing me.  One run and I couldn't do another.  It feels like there is a gap underneath the middle of my foot. My boots were fitted by a certified boot fitting outfit, but I think they may be a little narrow, and they do have some space under the middle of my foot.  I did some test and it looks like I have medium to high arched feet.

 

I know I"m out of shape, but they feel like I'm being crushed as soon as I start walking in them.  I don't get it because they were fine for years, except when I first got them.  I just want a working solution, but it might not be that easy : ).   Is there something to order online that will fill the gap underneath my foot?  I have no idea what's going on and it's painful so it's pretty frustrating.


Where do you ski ? May be we can recommend a boot fitter.

 

I gather you bought your current boots without talking to a boot fitter. I guess you have learned a lesson. Those of us who ski a lot let the boot fitter recommend a few boots that should fit ore feet. Wear old shoe's when to go to the boot fitter and plan to spend 2 hours with him/her. You wear old shoe's so the fitter can see how you walk and wear your weight is going.

post #54 of 55
He says:
Quote:
My boots were fitted by a certified boot fitting outfit

It doesn't mean his feet haven't changed over the years. Or that the boots haven't packed.
post #55 of 55

my guess would be a combination of:  boots always fit a little tighter first couple days of season AND muscular/foot issues not caused by skiing (ie they were there when you put your foot in the boot).

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Arch pain--with custom footbeds--help