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Outback SEDAN????? - Page 2

post #31 of 66
I have a 05 Legacy GT Wagon, my third GT Wagon since my 98'. I ski every weekend in the season, 70 + days. My 05 has 27,000 miles on it. It is without a doubt the best one yet. Mine has Cobb AP plus some other goodies 300+HP. With the stock tires, it was fine the past winter. If you want the higher ride go with the OB XT. I don't like the high center of gravity. You don't need it.

I would like to talk you out of the OB four door. The Wagon is much cooler and much more useful. Don't even waste your time on anything else. The OBXT or GT is the best bang for the buck. Check out www.legacygt.com ther have a forum that covers all the Legacy models.
post #32 of 66
"Subaru is the standard for skiers"

When a got back into skiing in the early 90's I drove Honda Civic's, As I began to spend more time in VT skiing I noticed that a lot of the locals were driving Subaru's, (Subby's). So when it came time for me to get serious about skiing, I learned from the locals what to drive. My first time out to Summit County, I also noticed there were alot of Subby's there. I even was a UPS Subaru.

If you can afford the upkeep of a Audi or Bimmer go ahead. Just to give you a idea of the Audi price for parts, we were looking for a 5 wire O2 sensor the other day. They come in front of the "cat" on 1.8L turbo's in A4's and VW Bugs. the Audi cost from the dealer was $245.00, the VW dealer was $54.80. Same Bosch LSU4.1 sensor. I think it was the 4.1, I have it home on the counter. Got to love that "German car feel".
post #33 of 66
Although I really liked the OB, I wish they would have made it couple inches wider and higher, it's a bit small for 6' and my dog and stuff. OTherwise, I would have bought it.
post #34 of 66
BTW, don't think Audi's warranty will keep away the maintenance costs. I got a certified used Audi A4 wagon with a "new" warranty through 50K and the "certified used" warranty through 100K. Bottom line -- its a great vehicle but warranty issues and service apptmts are a pain in the neck, I could rant for hours. Next time it's a Subaru for sure -- Legacy XT looks like just as good (or better) vehicle, and even if the service is just as crappy then I won't suffer that light in the wallet "German car feel".
post #35 of 66
FYI- Audi covers all maintanence for 4 years or 50K in addition to a 4 year 50K bumper to bumper warranty. This includes everything from windshield wipers to brake pads. I don't own an Audi but I have looked into them and the new models are well-built cars. I thinkthe A3 is a great new addition, basically, 34K list price for a fully loaded model. (nav and all the whistles and bells)
post #36 of 66
That's what they say - but in practice both roadside service and warranty servie are like pulling teeth. YMMV - maybe it's a dealer issue, not an Audi issue. And if it's out of your way to go to the dealer (I lose about an hour each trip, with r/t drive and wait time at the service desk) then each time you need a wiper blade, blown headlight, etc., you suffer the time / $$ tradeoff.

So my points are
1 - you can overalue warranties with Audi, and
2 - get the Subaru! (Not a hijack after all ...)
post #37 of 66
Sounds like a dealer issue, but when you need wipers or headlights, you still need the replace them and free is a good thing. I have two BMW's with the same coverage and it's great. I haven't paid a dime in the last 2 years for anything including oil changes. I have no issues with the legacy, great car. If you were looking for something a touch sportier or more of a "drivers car" you can't beat the Audi or the BMW. It's true, nothing drives like a BMW,but you have to like that German road feel.
post #38 of 66
I have a friend that bought her 1998 A4 1.8T Quatto a few month's after I bought my first Legacy GT Wagon. She said, she paid more money for less car (space wise) but had to have that "German car feel". She just bought a 05 Outback. She learned.

She talked about how difficult it was to get it serviced at the dealer. So I don't think they are all that...
post #39 of 66
I can certainly understand, unless any dealership is competent, it's always a headache. We switched dealerships for our BMW because of service issues. The new one is great. You can't go wrong with a OB, it's a great car. FYI-Audi's don't drive anything like a BMW.
post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog
FYI-Audi's don't drive anything like a BMW.
That's the difference between RWD & AWD for ya. Then again, BMW's don't drive anything like an Audi in the snow...in a perfect world I'd drive an M3 convertible in the summer and an A6 AllRoad with the 4.2L V-8 (a wonderful beast of an engine) all winter. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world, so I drive a Volkswagen instead! I guess that's sort of BMW+Audi=VW? Or more likely, "I drive so many miles all winter that I can't afford your wonderful lease packages so I bought used instead!"
post #41 of 66

Audi vs. Subaru

There seems to be a discussion of the relative merits of Audis and Subarus in snow country. My experience is that I have owned Audis - A 5000 Turbo and then an old style S4 (limited editition A6 with silly performance). Now I run a "Soob" - what's this "Subbie" silliness ? I traded in the S4 for an Outback wagon. A $50k+ car for a $25k car.

Some observations ...
Audi maintenance costs get enormous. Resale isn't as good. Performance was astounding. Comfort and quality world-class.
Subaru boringly practical. And cheap to run. And ubiquitous in snow country. Cheap to replace/repair when the weekend warriors start driving their SUVs into you.

Note that on the S4 I had four-season (M&S) tires to avoid chain-control, on the Subaru I have both winter and summer tires on different rims. Not that the Subaru needs it but it's sort of fun to jam on the brakes in winter to watch the tailgaiting moron's eyes get wide with some recognition of concern for imminent consequences of their crappy driving given that THEIR 4wd goes but doesn't stop very well : (sorry about the rant)
post #42 of 66
So another person who sold the S4 and and bought a Subby. I met one of the Legacygt.com guys a couple of weeks ago, He traded his S4 for a 05GT Wagon, and loves it, already has all kinds of mod's done to it.

Hey, have we hi-jacked this thread, Sorry
post #43 of 66
Thread Starter 
Naw, no hijack - just more info.

Problem with all those great sports car suggestions is that I have 3 kids, and will be on a RESIDENT's salary for the next three years. Residents don't make "real doctor" money - in fact when you break it down by the 80hr (or more)work week, it's not an encouraging hourly wage at all.

I can afford a year-old "Soob", but not likely anything officially new - and forget the "German Feel" - I'll have to get felt up by the Germans some other time

I'm leaning even more in the Soob direction than I was before. Now that I am paying attention, they are ALL OVER town, and the dealership is right on the way to work. Unlike the Honda dealership, which is 17 miles away and out of state. Glad to hear all the positive recs on them here.
post #44 of 66
80 hr. wk + 3 kids = buy WHATEVER car has a dealer on the way to work!
post #45 of 66
FRAU,

As I'm relatively new around here I'm not up on who's an instructor, who's a customer, etc. At any rate, if you're PSIA (as well as several other groups, MTBA is one I know of) you can purchase a Subaru w/out haggling for dealer invoice. I was looking at Subaru's recently, an 05 Legacy GT Wagon can be had for low 20's (I think 24k, but don't quote me on it).

Even without the a-holes in stretch pants deal, purchasing at dealer invoice shouldn't be too difficult, especially with the Subaru model year running June-June. I would imagine dealers would be anxious to move the remaining 05's ASAP, no?
post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskitoofast4u
FRAU,

As I'm relatively new around here I'm not up on who's an instructor, who's a customer, etc. At any rate, if you're PSIA (as well as several other groups, MTBA is one I know of) you can purchase a Subaru w/out haggling for dealer invoice. I was looking at Subaru's recently, an 05 Legacy GT Wagon can be had for low 20's (I think 24k, but don't quote me on it).
It's called the Subaru VIP program. Any member of a bunch of different organizations (Complete list) can buy a Subaru for invoice price. Rebates still apply. The catch is that you have to be a memeber for 6 months before you can take advantage of the program. Not sure if it applies to used Subarus too.

I joined IMBA a month ago, only 5 more months to go

Angel
post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by verdugan
It's called the Subaru VIP program. Any member of a bunch of different organizations (Complete list) can buy a Subaru for invoice price. Rebates still apply. The catch is that you have to be a memeber for 6 months before you can take advantage of the program. Not sure if it applies to used Subarus too.

I joined IMBA a month ago, only 5 more months to go

Angel
You MUST follow the instructions for the VIP program to work for you. You have to have a letter up front (obtained from the Subaru VIP section of the website) and you must present it upon arriving at the dealer.

You can't negotiate a deal, haggle over trade value and then do an "Oh by the way" I'm going to use this VIP thang now.

I had a subaru dealer as a client a few years ago---and he would not bend that rule at all---even for me! It was mainly for his protection with the MFGR---but had significant financial consequences, deal wise for the dealer.

The website cautions the buyer to expect no more than wholesale for their trade---which is understandable given they are buying at wholesale as well.

DrFrau---look into those organizations---maybe you already belong to one or another.

And since you probably won't be trading---nevermind!
post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
Phil, I would agree with you except, here in the west, you will still have to put chains on that FWD car, while the AWD can sail up the road unimpeded. And it happens every good powder day.
Caltrans is the worst. "Oh no, the road is WET! CHAIN CONTROL!" So I'm driving up the interstate at 20 MPH with chains slapping on wet pavement, SUVs blowing past me at 50 MPH, and every couple years a chain breaks and takes chunks out of my fender.

What "chain control" means, for the uninitiated, is that any time it snows, Caltrans stops every car at a manned checkpoint. Any 2WD vehicle must have chains on to continue, any 4WD vehicle can just drive on through. This happens every time there is any snow on the road, not just when conditions are actually difficult or slippery.

Do you have a lifted FWD Accord hatchback with studded snow tires? (The classic Midwest snow car?) Chains on, buddy! Do you have a lowered WRX with slick street tires, or a 6500-pound SUV with the stopping distance of a school bus? Go on through!

I came from the Midwest, OK? We all drove in snow every day of every winter, in rear-wheel drive station wagons with big V8 engines and no limited slip. I didn't even know what snow chains *were* until I got to California and they told me I needed them. WTF? Chains don't make your car *stop* any faster, and that's what causes the accidents.
post #49 of 66

It's fun to complain

Quote:
Originally Posted by spatters
Caltrans is the worst. "Oh no, the road is WET! CHAIN CONTROL!" So I'm driving up the interstate at 20 MPH with chains slapping on wet pavement, SUVs blowing past me at 50 MPH, and every couple years a chain breaks and takes chunks out of my fender.

What "chain control" means, for the uninitiated, is that any time it snows, Caltrans stops every car at a manned checkpoint. Any 2WD vehicle must have chains on to continue, any 4WD vehicle can just drive on through. This happens every time there is any snow on the road, not just when conditions are actually difficult or slippery.

Chains don't make your car *stop* any faster, and that's what causes the accidents.
There are some incorrect statements in your post. Noteably there are three levels of chain control ...
  • R1: Chains are required - snow tread tires allowed (includes studs and M&S tires which are next to useless when the going gets tough)
  • R2: Chains are required on all vehicles except four wheel drive vehicles with snow tires on all four wheels.
  • R3: Chains are required - all vehicles - no exceptions.
R1 and R2 are the most common conditions. The highway is usually closed before an R3 condition is imposed. Hence if you've got studs on they usually let you go. You could have a 4wd and still require chains which was a problem with my old 400hp S4 with 8" wide Z rated tires.

Cars do, in fact, stop faster on ice and packed snow with chains or studs on. You're right about their performance on dry or wet roads though. Also snow specific tires, not mud and snows, stop better too - don't tailgate a local :

And if you don't understand the need for chain control check out http://cad.chp.ca.gov/ for Truckee on a snowy day. It's carnage out there. I saw the freeway closed for 8 hours once due to the consequences of a BMW without chains.

I used to think that CalTrans was overly cautious about chain control 'til I moved up here and started to understand how STUPID some select folks can be in their rush to get up here to RELAX It just takes one to shut down an interstate. Better to keep it open with chain control than closed 'cause of a dumb driver
post #50 of 66

Get the wagon!

OMG not another soccer mom who wants a sedan in order to somehow be cooler. JUST DON"T!

Get the wagon, tint the windows, throw on a rack, and you will be cool. Sedans are terrible, wasteful, useless devices.

Get the wagon.

nate (who reluctantly helped an x-girlfriend negotiate and buy a Legacy Sedan because she too wanted to be 'cool'.)
post #51 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
OMG not another soccer mom who wants a sedan in order to somehow be cooler. JUST DON"T!

Get the wagon, tint the windows, throw on a rack, and you will be cool. Sedans are terrible, wasteful, useless devices.

Get the wagon.
Nonsense. There is very little a sedan, augmented with a roof rack, cannot accomplish that a wagon can. However, the sedan will be lighter, suffer from less body roll, and generally look sportier. Especially if you're going to keep the CRV around, FRAU, I say go for the sedan!
post #52 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskitoofast4u
Nonsense. There is very little a sedan, augmented with a roof rack, cannot accomplish that a wagon can. However, the sedan will be lighter, suffer from less body roll, and generally look sportier. Especially if you're going to keep the CRV around, FRAU, I say go for the sedan!

Huh? A sedan has far less room in it than a wagon. Wagons are far more versatile and accomplished vehicles. I have a box/yakima bars on my wagon and a hitch and a sedan could not touch it usefullness.

Weight: Outback Sedan 2.5 turbo with auto (limited package) - 3545
Cargo Capacity - 11.4 cubic feet

Weight: Outback Wagon with 2.5 turbo/Auto (limited package) -3565
Cago Capacity - 33.5 cubic feet or a whopping 66.2 with rear seat down

Try to get any large object in the back of a sedan and you are screwed. Large Coolers? Forget about them. Moving a chair? Forget it. Sleep in them as if they are campers? Forget it.

As for the difference in handling? Tiny if even noticable. It is easier to make a wagon chassis stiff than that of a sedan. That is why the wagon is barely heavier than the sedan - less materials are needed to make the chassis stiffer making up for the larger frame and extra glass. 20 lbs is tiny. I've driven exact model year (1986 Ford Escorts one after another (wagon vs. sedans) and the wagon handled better because they had stiffer chassis because they were wagons. Try twisting a box. Very stiff.

So it is I who speaks the truth and erupts with wisdom on this hot midwestern day...

Sedans are wasteful uncool devices. Woman who drive them are less attractive than those driving wagons.

nate
02 Outback Wagon MT5
post #53 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskitoofast4u
Nonsense. There is very little a sedan, augmented with a roof rack, cannot accomplish that a wagon can. However, the sedan will be lighter, suffer from less body roll, and generally look sportier. Especially if you're going to keep the CRV around, FRAU, I say go for the sedan!
In this case, the Outback sedan doesn't have fold down seats, only pass through (if I recall correctly). That is a very important point for me.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2006.html 2006 outbacks. there is a new model, and Navigation is available. Base model starts at $23,500 going all the way up to $33k.

Good luck Dr. Frau.
post #54 of 66

how many?

New contest!

How many Bears can you pack into a Subie sedan?

Yer' gonna take us for a ride, right Doc?
post #55 of 66
[quote=Yuki]New contest!

How many Bears can you pack into a Subie sedan?
QUOTE]

ou ou ou, I think I know this one, "not as many as you can pack into a Wagon".

Did I get it right?
post #56 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
Sleep in them as if they are campers? Forget it.
Something tells me Ms. FRAU, M.D., isn't too concerned with using her car as a camper...

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
I've driven exact model year (1986 Ford Escorts one after another (wagon vs. sedans) and the wagon handled better because they had stiffer chassis because they were wagons. Try twisting a box. Very stiff.
I'll concede this point to you, but only because you drove not one, but two 1986 Ford Escorts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
So it is I who speaks the truth and erupts with wisdom on this hot midwestern day...
I bow to you.
post #57 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskitoofast4u
I bow to you.

Thankyou! Its not easy being right all the time so I appreciate the gesture.

nate
post #58 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskitoofast4u
Something tells me Ms. FRAU, M.D., isn't too concerned with using her car as a camper...

Au Contraire..... I have done that in my CRV several times - especially when camping by myself in the rain and was too damn lazy to set up the tent! The 1997 model CRV has just enough room for 5'4" me to stretch out without going diagonal!

That occurred to me as a downside to the sedan - now that I know the seats won't fold down. I will still have the CRV if I need to camp or haul - but that also means that when I do that, the teenager would be driving the NEW car! EEK!:

Gaaaaahhh!!! The Decision is terrible!
post #59 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
New contest!

How many Bears can you pack into a Subie sedan?

Yer' gonna take us for a ride, right Doc?
Okay, Y'all meet me at the dealership - a few will have to lie down in the trunk, but we'll open the pass-thru so you can get some air and be sociable.
post #60 of 66

what quality issues?

My wife has a 03 forester and I have an 04 wrx wagon. No problems. Check conumer reports and I believe you will see that quality is not an issue with subaru. Before you look at honda or toyota consider the awd. Not too many choices that aren't suv's. Don't buy the saab that looks like the wrx, it just looks stupid. I'm not sure what is so refined about the interior, it looks the same to me. Saab also has two versions of thhis car, the less expensive does not have the 227hp turbo that the subaru wrx has. Every time I see this saab I wonder why the person driving paid more for the saab emblem.
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