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estimate cost in Summit County

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I was toying with the idea of a full season condo rental as opposed to renting by week or weekend.

I have a 4br 4ba condo/townhouse at Keystone (walk or shuttle to Gondola) and 3 miles down from A-Basin. It sleeps 11-16 people. (11 in beds + 2 on sleeper sofa + Queen airbed + 1 futon.

What would a seasonal rental like this worth?
How much would Denver area professionals or families pay for the November-April season?
What about without just Jan-April?

Nightly rate (non xmas) is between $400-$460 Jan-April.

Any info would be great to help me decide if this would be feasible and get around the managemnet of all the smaller individual reservations.
additional detail: http://greatrental.home.comcast.net

Thanks for any info or suggestions.

Guy
post #2 of 22
Why not rent it out to couple of bears for the season? I am looking for a seasonal rental, and would be interested in sharing one with a bear or two to make it more affordable. In that case you can save a bedroom for yourself and use it any time you find a decent airfare.
I have recently posted a message on the Resort and Travel discussion group asking for ideas for a seasonal rental for my sabbatical this winter season. May be I should have posted my question here or in the Community room?
post #3 of 22
You might look at http://www.summitdaily.com for what rents are going for. Some friends of ours rented last season a 3 bed + loft for around 1300.00
post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 

for AE

AE - if you investigate some comparable units/location and would like to make an offer, I would be open minded. I have a family, so keeping an "extra bedroom open" has not much value to me. That said, should you find others to share the rent, I would entertain an offer. Again, please factor in location and amenities.

you can email me at: greatrental AT comcast DOT net

-Guy
post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by gschlact
AE - if you investigate some comparable units/location and would like to make an offer, I would be open minded. I have a family, so keeping an "extra bedroom open" has not much value to me. That said, should you find others to share the rent, I would entertain an offer. Again, please factor in location and amenities.

you can email me at: greatrental AT comcast DOT net

-Guy
Email sent.
post #6 of 22
Gschlact:

You will net a lot more money long term w/o a management contract than you will short term with. The key to long term rentals is getting good tenants. The down side is you can't use your place.

Perhaps you could work a deal with these guys were they would move out for a week so your family could still use it?
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD
Perhaps you could work a deal with these guys were they would move out for a week so your family could still use it?
As if second homeowners aren't annoying enough, I think that's just rude. If you do something like that, you'd better kick back the renter a good deal like a free month of rent. You also need to tell them before you rent the place.

Otherwise, I'd assume you can easily afford to just stay in a normal rental for your vacation.
post #8 of 22
Personally, I think you should stick with the nightly rentals thru the mgmt company. You're not going to rent it out for more than $1500-1600/month. So if you can rent it out nightly for 4-5 nights/month at your $400-450 price range, you're making off better- with time to spare for your own use.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 

second home use or short term rental

I would not infringe on any renters usage of my home. If I did a long term rental, it would not be available to me during that time of the lease.

I was hoping some Denver locals who rent often during the winter anyways, might be willing to pay for a lease (and premium over Dillon/Frisco/Silverthorn for walk to lifts location of my condo.) Maybe even some employees wanting to be close in to work and on the shuttle for the whole resort and county.

I have observed that most resort rentals go for about 2 1/2 weeks rent when converting to monthly rent. Not sure that it applies to the local Denver people due to their proximity to the mountains and may not need to pay the premium of the resort location. I do know that it does work this way for for Tahoe and the SF and San Jose renter groups.

Math works out too... assume you go into a share-house at $1500 per 6 month season per person. Assume 15 people. Total gross is $22.5K. If you as the renter use it for 30 nights, it comes to $50/night - quite reasonable for a place where you leave your stuff and have the same bed etc.

I would extend an offer to any EpicSki member for 10% discount for any short term rentals off my already competitive rates (often 30% lower than Keystone Resort rates). I'll also re-extend this offer as we get closer to the season.

- Guy Schlacter
http://greatrental.home.comcast.net




-Guy
post #10 of 22
I don't know anyone who would pay $50 per night to room with 14 other people in a house. Unless it came with a couple of geisha girls.
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesB
I don't know anyone who would pay $50 per night to room with 14 other people in a house. Unless it came with a couple of geisha girls.
amen
post #12 of 22
Just for comparison's purpose: Last season I rented a house in Silverthorne (granted, its not Keystone, but heck, its the same area). There were 15 of us in a condo that slept 18, and most of the time my girlfriend and I got our own bedroom. We rented it out from Jan 1st until the end of March for $120/person per month. We went up every weekend except for a couple- so I'd guess 20-25 nights minimum. That works out to about $18/night- for our own bedroom.
post #13 of 22
The technical answer is "whatever the market will bear". But it also has to be a question of what is the property worth to you?

It isn't unreasonable to expect that a renter should pay at least what it costs to maintain a property in that location. If you purchased as an investment, then it isn't productive unless you at least break even. Since Nov-Apr represents 80-90% of your opportunity to recover your carrying costs, that's your minimum number. My guess is that your property costs you at least $8,000-$10,000+/year (taxes, association dues, maintenance, insurance, etc.), not including mortgage interest- if you have a mortgage. Many people will be happy to rent\lease it for less, but what is your incentive to spend your money to reduce the cost of base-area lodging for someone else... especially if you get no use from it?

$1K per month is prohibitive for an average low-paid ski area employee. Pack a few bodies in, and the cost per person goes down, but generally the wear & tear\damage goes up. If you're "picky" about the condition of your property, don't turn it into a "ski-share". Finding a family with the desire to fork over $6k+ for the season is possible; however, they're often in a financial position which allows them to invest that money in a place of their own. Best shot might be someone considering ownership, but not ready to commit without "test driving" first.

Many times, the value of amenities and creature comforts decreases exponentially in relation to skiing ability. This forum many not be your best source for determining maximum value... if you know what I mean. (Hard core skiers)

Speaking of amenities, I just remembered a humorous story about the cost of a hotel room.... (next post)
post #14 of 22

Cost of a Hotel Room

A husband and wife are traveling by car from Key West to Boston. After almost twenty-four hours on the road, they're too tired to continue, and they decide to stop for a rest.

They stop at a nice hotel and take a room, but they only plan to sleep for four hours and then get back on the road.

When they check out four hours later, the desk clerk hands them a bill for $350.

The man explodes and demands to know why the charge is so high. He tells the clerk although it's a nice hotel, but the rooms certainly aren't worth $350.

When the clerk tells him $350 is the standard rate, the man insists on speaking to the Manager.

The Manager appears, listens to the man, and then explains that the hotel has an Olympic-sized pool and a huge conference center that were available for the husband and wife to use.

"But we didn't use them," the man complains.

"Well, they are here, and you could have," explains the Manager.

He goes on to explain they could have taken in one of the shows for which the hotel is famous. "The best entertainers from New York, Hollywood and Las Vegas perform here," the Manager says.

"But we didn't go to any of those shows", complains the man again.

"Well, we have them, and you could have," the Manager replies.

No matter what amenity the Manager mentions, the man replies, "But we
didn't use it!"

The Manager is unmoved, and eventually the man gives up and agrees to pay.

He writes a check and gives it to the Manager.

The Manager is surprised when he looks at the check. "SIR," he says, "this check is only made out for $50."

"That's correct," says the man. "I charged you $300 for sleeping with my wife."

"But I didn't!" exclaims the Manager.

"Well, too bad," the man replies. "She was here and you could have."
post #15 of 22
Gshlact- I sent you an email about this. I think I may have renewed interest in the condo and have a larger group of people who are interested.


Steve
post #16 of 22
skiing/living in Summit County will cost you your soul
post #17 of 22
Just about... Gschlact wants me to take out a loan on my soul to pay for the rent he's asking.

I'm doing just fine in CO for now, thanks... I'll make it out to SLC in a year or two.
post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
As I previously said - It looks like the short term rental weekenders and vacationers puts much more value on the location and accomodations. By the offer Harry made, I am not so sure he is doing "just fine" (a jab deserves a jab). Regardless, it didn't make sense for me.

Anyways, thanks for the evaluation, I'll stay in the short term rental market for now with my condo. For peak winter season months, I needed equivalent monthly rent to about 15 nightly rentals.

This is what the market will bear.

-Guy
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by gschlact
As I previously said - It looks like the short term rental weekenders and vacationers puts much more value on the location and accomodations. By the offer Harry made, I am not so sure he is doing "just fine" (a jab deserves a jab). Regardless, it didn't make sense for me.

Anyways, thanks for the evaluation, I'll stay in the short term rental market for now with my condo. For peak winter season months, I needed equivalent monthly rent to about 15 nightly rentals.

This is what the market will bear.

-Guy
Gee, I'm sorry I don't own a 4-bedroom condo at Keystone. You must feel so successful in life.

On the other hand, anyone around here (even the people who are "doing well") would tell you that you're nuts. $6500/month for a 4-bedroom condo is absolutely outrageous. I can rent two luxury homes in Summit Country for that much.
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 

jabbing

Harry-
You took the first shot.
It is not a matter of how I feel or not - it is plain economics supply and demand. I need not debate your longer term rental proposal - it might make sense for both you and some other person with differernt property. For me, I evaluated the long term market and deemed that I need to stay short term rentals to produce the necessary income needed to sustain the property being that 90% of the yearly income comes over the ski season months.

Also, from a 5month long term rental perspective, families might make the most sense. 4 Families could rent my place together pay ~$8K for the season each and get, with all holiday and weekend use 65 nights use each. About $125 for a family of 4-5 people per night in a 2200 sq ft two level condo - about the same price as a hotel room. Of course they could use it all 150 nights and pay $55 / night too.

Short term rentals for now.
-Guy
post #21 of 22
When you do short term rentals, isn't it through a management company that takes a hefty cut, like 30% or so? If you do a private party direct season rental you save that commission and can offer a more competitive price.

I have been fortunate at Mammoth to find a couple of condo owners who do short term rentals on a direct basis, and prices are defintely lower than through a reservation service.
post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 
Tony-
I agree the management companies to take a large chunk. This is why I do a good portion of the short term rentals myself. As you know, unfortuntately expenses are high when the resort properties are high, it appears that the short term rental is the only way to cover costs.

Not sure about Mammoth, but again, Keystone produces almost 90% of the yearly revenue during the ski season and hence the need to cover 90% of the yearly expenses in the 5 month season which in turn even has high and low periods.

-Guy

-Guy
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