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2006 Rossignol Race Stock 9S and 9X

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Has anyone skied the new race stock SL and GS?

1) What were your impressions of either or both?
2) What sizes did you use and conditions when demo?
3) What have you previously skied on for context to your summary?

Thanks,

David
post #2 of 28
I asked PJ Dewey from Racestocksports about the 2006 9S WC. He said that the new ski is stiffer, has less tail and a new plate. That is all i know (so far). Mine should arrive in August. IMO, the new model should ski better than last years model. You could send him an email and ask about these skis. This way you could get some info about the GS ski if you really need to know now. He is great and he knows some things about skis too, not only about boots.

race
post #3 of 28
I have received an attachment from a friend of mine containing the 05/06 Rossi race product specs.
9S WC:

- comes in two versions: medium and stiff. 165 is available only in the stiff version. I didn't ski last years model, but i don't remember anything about two versions.
- new plastic tip protector
- World Cup laminate sandwich construction
- vertical sidewalls
- race stock base
- square tail
- new Gold T-Box world cup SL plate
- sidecuts: 165cm 117-65-106 r=12.1m
155cm 116-64-98 r=11.3m 165 has definitely a wider tail.

9X WC:

I didn't see anything indicating two versions of the GS ski.
- World Cup laminate sandwich construction
- vertical sidewalls
- race stock base
- square tail
- RK hinged WC GS plate

167/175cm no change. 181/185 narrower over all, blunt nose, more extended
sidecut in tip to pull the ski in, flex is stiffer than last years. New plate, very similar to old.


race
post #4 of 28
I thought that the 04/05 9XWC was quite different a ski in 181 and in 185, the 185 being more stiffer and fast (akin to the very best from Atomic) and the 181 softer/less edgehold but more friendly to less than top experts.
post #5 of 28
I got to try both skis out at Hood and liked them alot. I tried both the 165 sl and the 184 gs. Compared to last years slalom this years is quite a bit stiffer and has alot more spring, the tails especially. The stiffer tail really keeps you from getting in the back seat and keeps you skiing agresively. Although quite a bit stiffer, the ski still retains a smoothness that is characteristic of Rossignol. Along with the ski, the plate has also been changed to further stiffen the ski. As for the GS ski not much has changed. The tips and tails have been reshaped to allow for more edge to snow contact which resulted in a ski that is slightly more stable and seems to grip quite well. The less round tips also makes the ski easier to initiate. Overall both skis are very solid and recommended.
post #6 of 28
I have also found somewhat different dimensions for the 9S so there might be more shapes.

e.g. 117-65-104 (cf. http://www.rossignol.jp/product/ski/lineup.html#ski2)
and 117-65-105.
106 would be really extreme, esp. with the 155 cm/only 98 mm (sure, the best men are stronger but how about the light 16-year-old juniors having to work such a brutal tail?)

A friend of mine working for Rossi Switzerland reported this spring that the 9S has 117-65-105, the ski is thicker in the middle section by 2 mm, hence stiffer, the new plate Gold T-box is 13 mm high (the previous RKs were 14.8 or 10 mm).

Btw, I remember him reporting a year earlier that the 04/05 was softer than the 03/04 (whose tail was "too stiff"). Now the 05/06 is said to be stiffer again...
post #7 of 28
strange, i definitely think that the 04/05 seemed definitively stiffer that the 03/04, rossignol seems to be getting a little stiffer each year. btw, I also tried the dynastar out at Hood and it is said to be the stiffest ski out there this year, a drastic change seeing they had one of the softest skis a few years back.
post #8 of 28

Rossi GS 05/06

I ski'd the stock ski in early April at Sunshine Village. I've hated rossi skis, I've always been a Atomic or Fischer guy however I was extremely impressed with the Rossi GS ski this year. I believe it is the new plate that does a wonder of difference, I took the plate off the new ski and put it on a 04/05 ski and it ski'd a lot better!!! Bottom line though, the 193 GS ski'd like a 183 ski and felt short then a Dobermann 185. I ski'd roughly 15 days on a 04/05 Rossi 185 and wasn't that impressed as the Fischer or Atomic easily beat it out.

I would recommend the 05/06 Rossi GS ski for sure!!

The conditions where not rock hard, but reasonably solid for April.
post #9 of 28

Rossi Skis

We did a late April Test at Snowbird of all the 9Xti's, 9S's, Men's, Women's. These were all race stock skis. They ARE the same ski that will be available at your local Rossi Race Center. The only difference is the top cap is hand shaped on the skis from the "race room".

Rossi Test Day


We don't get much into the measurements just how they skied. I am blown away with the Men's 9Xti. It has a much thicker top metal layer than my '05 race stock skis and skis totally differently. All I can say is that it is a 'beefy" ride, a heavy stable ski with great dampening qualities. The ski's flex is pretty soft flex wise but very rigid torsionally.

By the time I skied the Men's 181, 184 and 190, then the Women's 184 I only had a few runs on the new 9s. The snow was too soft to get a lot of feedback from the ski. I could tell that they stiffened up the slalom board and added a new plate with a T-box construction to keep the ski very rigid torsionally under foot.

The three testers were Me, MuscleHead, already on Rossignol for the last 30 years (yeah, for real), Tommy Kirchhoff, a devoted Fischer guy, and Dr. Liz (my wife) who came off of Nordica Doberman's in both Slalom and GS. We all were VERY impressed with the GS boards. If anyone wants more technical feedback than the light piece linked above, let me know.

Disclosure: We have caught a bit of heat for our equipment posts. If this offends anyone or runs afoul of the boards rules just let me know, we will retract it immediately.
post #10 of 28
The 2005-05 Rossi Race Centre website is up with product specs. etc.

The link is http://www.rossignol.com/racecenter/index.html
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Dranow
Disclosure: We have caught a bit of heat for our equipment posts. If this offends anyone or runs afoul of the boards rules just let me know, we will retract it immediately.
I guess such a link is just about perfect, Gary.

Nice of you to have found time to post something else than the giant WS thread.
Btw, I finally succeeded in reading everything. Unfortunately, I´m extremely busy these days with my domestic gear articles. I want to post some comments based on the "funcarving" technique using the inside ski and body rotation (steering), widely used in Europe...
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
I guess such a link is just about perfect, Gary.

Nice of you to have found time to post something else than the giant WS thread.
Btw, I finally succeeded in reading everything. Unfortunately, I´m extremely busy these days with my domestic gear articles. I want to post some comments based on the "funcarving" technique using the inside ski and body rotation (steering), widely used in Europe...
Thanks Ivan, hey, when you get some time away from tapping on the keys for your gear articles jump in at the WS thread, it would be nice to hear perspecitve. Is anyone at carve-ski.de following? and Yeah, that thing has a life of its own : I'll bet Hans had no idea what he was starting Dranow
post #13 of 28
Gary:
I have posted the info at the German forum about WS Revisited being in progress and hotly debated. Nevertheles, August is probably too early for the Euros to take the pains reading, understanding, thinking....
I finished the first WS reading yesterday night. Now I need time to formulate my remarks based on the methods used and taught in Europe (no fear, they teach inside ski but not the subtle waist steering - more about it later in my post).
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Dranow
Disclosure: We have caught a bit of heat for our equipment posts. If this offends anyone or runs afoul of the boards rules just let me know, we will retract it immediately.

??? Keep'em coming!
post #15 of 28

Rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by NE1
??? Keep'em coming!
Thanks NE1! We appreciate the support.

Not in this thread but there have been some rumors circulating about the '06 Rossignol Race Stock skis.

The rumors are that there are two models of the 9Sti and two different side cut options of the 9Xti.

Both rumors are absolutely false. There is one model of the 9Xti and though the different size GS skis have different measurements they are comensurate with the design of the ski, there are not two different side cut options.

I was asked by Rossi to make sure that this information got out and the rumor mills did not become a urban legend.

As for the skis themselves, you bet, the Slalom ski is stiffer than last year's offering and does indeed have a new plate making the ski much stiffer tortionally under foot. The GS boards have a thicker top metal layer which gives the ski fabulous dampening and are very round to ski. The GS ski is FUN to cruise around on and is extremely responsive.

The Slalom ski rides very much like the Nordica Doberman race stock of this last season, perhaps a bit more aggressive. This ski is for the race course, not a sunday cruise on the groomers. The GS ski can be a fun ride on groomers but is are very much Formula race cars for the meanest GS hills you can find. Stick in the gates and Go!

Rumors be damned!

MuscleHead
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Dranow
Not in this thread but there have been some rumors circulating about the '06 Rossignol Race Stock skis.
The rumors are that there are two models of the 9Sti and two different side cut options of the 9Xti.
Both rumors are absolutely false. There is one model of the 9Xti and though the different size GS skis have different measurements they are comensurate with the design of the ski, there are not two different side cut options.
I was asked by Rossi to make sure that this information got out and the rumor mills did not become a urban legend.
WORLD CUP 9X
sidecuts:
NEW 190cm - Y51 - 105.5/66/87.5 - r=26.1
NEW 184cm - Y51 - 105/65/87 - r=24.0
NEW 181cm - Y41 - 104/65/85 - r=21.6
175cm - Y41 - 97/66 /91 - r=21.6
167cm - Y41 - 101/66/91 - r=18.0

WORLD CUP 9S
sidecuts:
NEW - 165cm - Y59 - 117/65/105 - r=12.1
NEW - 155cm - Y56 - 116/64/98 - r=11.3
150cm - Y73 - 115/63/96 - r=10.3

http://www.rossignolracing.com
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
WORLD CUP 9X
sidecuts:
NEW 190cm - Y51 - 105.5/66/87.5 - r=26.1
NEW 184cm - Y51 - 105/65/87 - r=24.0
NEW 181cm - Y41 - 104/65/85 - r=21.6
175cm - Y41 - 97/66 /91 - r=21.6
167cm - Y41 - 101/66/91 - r=18.0

WORLD CUP 9S
sidecuts:
NEW - 165cm - Y59 - 117/65/105 - r=12.1
NEW - 155cm - Y56 - 116/64/98 - r=11.3
150cm - Y73 - 115/63/96 - r=10.3

http://www.rossignolracing.com
Keep in mind that as the ski is longer or shorter the measurements change to keep the same characteristics. This is directly from Rossignol, the Y41/Y51 is only a length designation, not a different model.
post #18 of 28
If there are no two (or, theoretically, even more) skis with different sidecuts in the same length (at least as "retail racestock") there are no OPTIONS as such. Period.

Otoh, some of the skis are so much different that I can imagine how the "rumors" originated.
The 155cm SL with 98mm tail and 165cm with 105mm - it´s not just "longer and accordingly wider" as usual and as seen in the tip (117-116) or waist (65-64) differences.

The 175cm GS (97-66-91) and the next length 181cm (104/65/85) are also somewhat different.
"There are not two different side cut options"??? C´mon, Rossi/Gary, you kiddin´?
From 181cm on that´s true but then the 175cm ski shouldn´t be listed with the longer ones. It´s still FIS-compliant for some, though.

Btw, if the following measurements are correct: 184cm (105/65/87 r=24.0) and 181cm (104/65/85 r=21.6) the given radii can´t be. If the contact length is the same in both (why shouldn´t it if they are not two sidecut options?) they will have comparable radii (in fact, the 181cm slightly bigger).

I don´t argue with the basic statement - one length one sidecut no options - but try to show that not everything is consistent on the Rossi website.
post #19 of 28

What will Rossi say,,,,,,

Check, I'm going to send this to Zach Lloyd, the western region M.P. and see what he says. Give me a day to get his answer, I'll post it up here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by checkracer
If there are no two (or, theoretically, even more) skis with different sidecuts in the same length (at least as "retail racestock") there are no OPTIONS as such. Period.

Otoh, some of the skis are so much different that I can imagine how the "rumors" originated.
The 155cm SL with 98mm tail and 165cm with 105mm - it´s not just "longer and accordingly wider" as usual and as seen in the tip (117-116) or waist (65-64) differences.

The 175cm GS (97-66-91) and the next length 181cm (104/65/85) are also somewhat different.
"There are not two different side cut options"??? C´mon, Rossi/Gary, you kiddin´?
From 181cm on that´s true but then the 175cm ski shouldn´t be listed with the longer ones. It´s still FIS-compliant for some, though.

Btw, if the following measurements are correct: 184cm (105/65/87 r=24.0) and 181cm (104/65/85 r=21.6) the given radii can´t be. If the contact length is the same in both (why shouldn´t it if they are not two sidecut options?) they will have comparable radii (in fact, the 181cm slightly bigger).

I don´t argue with the basic statement - one length one sidecut no options - but try to show that not everything is consistent on the Rossi website.
post #20 of 28

Rossignol '06 Models, Radius, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Dranow
Check, I'm going to send this to Zach Lloyd, the western region M.P. and see what he says. Give me a day to get his answer, I'll post it up here.
Here is Rossi's response and their '06 brochure

Gary, if I am reading your email correctly it looks like you guys are comparing different sizes to one another. As I had mention to you before side cuts do change from one size to the other for a couple of different reason. Skis at different lengths will need different side cuts if they are to have similar or the same radius. More importantly the flex and side cut must match in order to make a quality race ski. the 175 has less side cut than the 181, but it is also a considerable amount softer. This allows the 175 to have the same radius of turn as the 181. For these reasons, you will find some different models depending on the size. The 190 and 184 are a model Y51. The 181 and shorter are a model Y41. This does not mean that the 190 & 184 are better than the 181 & shorter. All this means is Y51 tested faster with 190 & 184 lengths, and the Y41 tested faster with the 181 & shorter lengths. On the topic of different side cuts for one length ski. There is only one side cut for each length that is brought into the country. That goes for what the race department has and for what race centers have. Both the race centers and the Race department (BOTH GET THE SAME SKIS!!!!!) have the same model and construction as what the world cup athletes will start the season on this year. THIS MEANS YOU ARE GETTING THE MOST CURRENT SKIS POSSIBLE. I will forward to you the most current dimensions (for the skis that will be available this year) when I get the email from Thor our Alpine Product Manager. Hopefully this will clear up any of the questions out there. Talk to you soon. Zach

---------------------------------------------

Gary, as you will see from what Thor said. I did make a mistake on the 184 9X it is a model Y41, so the only GS ski that is a Y51 is the 190. The attachment is the latest Race Brochure with all the current skis, etc. Zach

Here is the new Rossi Brochure with all current information.
post #21 of 28

The Rossi 9s Oversize

A guestion came up about the '05 Rossi 9S Oversize. Here is what the deal is with that ski, remarks from Zach Lloyd, MP and our Rossiginal technical support laison.


Gary, the 9s oversize is now the VS oversized it has about a 12 m turn to it. I believe it is wider all the way through compared to the 9S World Cup. It truly is a great ski. I had a pair last year that I would cruise around at the races on. They are much more stable than you would expect. It's not a race ski. I would describe it as an aggressive recreational SL radius ski. The 9s oversized is replaced this year by the Z9 which is a sweet cruising machine, I will probably get a pair for myself they are so good, again not a racing ski, but it is extremely versatile and arcs a sweet turn on the groomer. Hopefully that gives you some incite. Zach
post #22 of 28
Gary, there is something i would like to ask you about the 9S WC (2006). You said it is stiffer than last yesr's offering. But how much stiffer? I have the brochure. I am interested in the 155. In the brochure it says it is available in "medium" stiffness, while the "stiff" version is only available for 165.

So how much stiffer is the 155 compared to last year's 155? I was told it is about 20% stiffer. The 165 would be about 40% stiffer.

Thanks,
Jamie
post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
Gary, there is something i would like to ask you about the 9S WC (2006). You said it is stiffer than last yesr's offering. But how much stiffer? I have the brochure. I am interested in the 155. In the brochure it says it is available in "medium" stiffness, while the "stiff" version is only available for 165.

So how much stiffer is the 155 compared to last year's 155? I was told it is about 20% stiffer. The 165 would be about 40% stiffer.

Thanks,
Jamie
I will send this in to Rossgnol and get you their response. I skied it and it was the '06 ski was totally different than my '05 race stock ski but I couldn't quantify for you what the differences were. I should have thier response by Tuesday. 'gjd
post #24 of 28
Thanks Gary!

I will probably have the '06 9S WC in 155. I had the chance to try the 2005 model, but i didn't. Until you get the response, could you tell me what were the differences between the two models (if you skied the 155 of course)? You said this year's model is different. I am only interested in the 155.
post #25 of 28

sywsyw asks . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
Thanks Gary!

I will probably have the '06 9S WC in 155. I had the chance to try the 2005 model, but i didn't. Until you get the response, could you tell me what were the differences between the two models (if you skied the 155 of course)? You said this year's model is different. I am only interested in the 155.
Yeah, this year's 155 and 165 9S WC is whole different bag than my Race Stock '05's. Each year since '04 the skis have become stiffer tip to tail as well as torsionally. The '06 has a different side cut and a new plate with a T-Box contruction that has upped the torsional stiffness yet once again. The '06 model was developed when Bode was still on Rossignol. New side cut, thicker top metal sheet, new shape for the shovel, stiffer tail and as I said the T-Box makes this ski very, very beefy (I know, what the hell does Beefy mean).

The skis I tested had bevels set at .50/.93 and were VERY sharp tip to tail. I"m a big guy at 6'0" and 220 Lbs so the 155 is a bit "quick" for me. Here is Tommy on the 155's and he just loved them. He said they were effortless to initiate and loaded very nicely into the turn. He skied them in firm and then soft conditions. Tommy is at least 30 Lbs lighter than me but stand 6'1".

Tommy on the '06 9S WC

Liz also skied the 155 WC and felt they were very stable at speed and again easy to intiate and loaded properly at 12 M turns. Liz is 5'6" 135LBS. The skis handled well for here in both the firm and soft conditions.

Overall we were blown away with the new line up. We are going up to Clearfield to have our boots built and have our quiver hand picked out of the race stock invetory.

I am getting the 184 GS, the 165 Slalom and 206 SuperG (another great ski).

Liz is picking up the 181 GS, 155 Slalom and 201 SuperG. I have a pair of '04/05 SuperG's that I lent to Harold DeBlanc a Fischer guy, I've never seen those skis again and he won't give 'em back (not kidding).

As I said, if we didn't love the skis we wouldn't have joined forces wtih Rossi. It is a good fit as Rossi has re-uped their committment to their Racing presence, it is a good thing

Hope this helps. BTW, for anybody interested in the Race Center skis, don't hesitate to ask us if we know were to get a great deal on your skis, we don't get anything for helping racers get the best deal, this is just part of our commitment to recreational racing, that is what we are all about.

If this sounds like an endorsement of Rossi, it is an unabashed endorsement for the company that has lined up behind what we are trying to do. Don't get pissed, just change the channel if it bothers you, besides sywsyw asked
post #26 of 28
Thank you for your response. I weigh 155lbs. and i will have the 155.

there is something i need to know about the bevels. Were they set from the factory? I am curious to know if you changed them or not. It is important to know (at least for me) if the ski works well with the rossi bevels.
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
Thank you for your response. I weigh 155lbs. and i will have the 155.

there is something i need to know about the bevels. Were they set from the factory? I am curious to know if you changed them or not. It is important to know (at least for me) if the ski works well with the rossi bevels.
As far as I understand Rossi race skis come in fairly square as they expect the Racer to set their own bevels, I will check this with Rossi directly. I know that every pair I've had for the last 4 years were stoned flat then bevels hand pulled to .7 / .93 and then last year I went to .5 / .93 on both GS and Slalom. SuperG I run at 1 / .93
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Dranow
Here is Rossi's response and their '06 brochure

Gary, if I am reading your email correctly it looks like you guys are comparing different sizes to one another. As I had mention to you before side cuts do change from one size to the other for a couple of different reason. Skis at different lengths will need different side cuts if they are to have similar or the same radius. More importantly the flex and side cut must match in order to make a quality race ski. the 175 has less side cut than the 181, but it is also a considerable amount softer. This allows the 175 to have the same radius of turn as the 181. For these reasons, you will find some different models depending on the size. The 190 and 184 are a model Y51. The 181 and shorter are a model Y41. This does not mean that the 190 & 184 are better than the 181 & shorter. All this means is Y51 tested faster with 190 & 184 lengths, and the Y41 tested faster with the 181 & shorter lengths. On the topic of different side cuts for one length ski. There is only one side cut for each length that is brought into the country. That goes for what the race department has and for what race centers have. Both the race centers and the Race department (BOTH GET THE SAME SKIS!!!!!) have the same model and construction as what the world cup athletes will start the season on this year. THIS MEANS YOU ARE GETTING THE MOST CURRENT SKIS POSSIBLE. I will forward to you the most current dimensions (for the skis that will be available this year) when I get the email from Thor our Alpine Product Manager. Hopefully this will clear up any of the questions out there. Talk to you soon. Zach
Thanks for your efforts with the Rossi guys. A lot of useful and hard-to-get-at info.

As to Zach´s answer, let me say that I personally don´t care about Rossi skis, the last one I used was the good old ST Competition faaar back...
Therefore I just let it be as it is. My only remark will be that the guy would make a good politician:
- answering what he chooses to
- ignoring (the strange radii given)
- starting with a refined downgrading of the "opponent" ("it looks like you guys are comparing different sizes to one another")
- not forgetting to promote his "program" (further info).

Okay, I have my experience with those company guys. They just do their job. I wouldn´t be different. In fact when I am - anonymously, of course - writing texts of some catalog, technical manual or a PR article I´m doing the same.

I really don´t have time now to pursue this further. If I had I would devote it to Waist steering. Stopped at post 240. I have my deadlines and have to do what I get money from. This here is just not to lose contact and not to fall into oblivion. Maybe later...
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