or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Teaching Methodologies

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

John Heath recently completed a camp in Austria with HH, Diana, and Rich Messer and wrote one of the best overviews and analysis of Harb's methodology to coaching that I've read. In light of the recent excellent discussion on the ways people learn and how to coach with that in mind, this might have useful ideas for people or at least open a window a bit on how a specific top coach approaches the issues involved.

John Heath uses some of these same philosophies in his own Crickett coaching, thus his ability to reflect accurately.
post #2 of 10

Mr. Heath begins his opus with the following statement.

"This is not only because he has great experience in dealing with athletes from the World Cup circuit to the junior racer to the corporate worker with injury issues to the pensioner just beginning the sport, but also because in the mid-90s he set up an independent system of ski coaching and has since faced varying reactions from the traditional and/or official coaching bodies, ranging from indifference to contempt and in some quarters to hostility."

Two things occur to me.

First, can Mr Heath find any support of "official coaching bodies" reacting with contempt, or hostility?

Second, if we want to use the above terms to describe tone/tenor has Mr Heath read anything written by PMTS fans concerning PSIA, CSIA, and or a host of european teaching organizations?

I think much of the reaction that Mr Heath alludes to, has in fact, been a result of the never ending language chosen by various folks towards PSIA. I would go so far as to suggest the basis for hostility comes from five years worth of one man saying he is the alpha and omega.

It is difficult for me to get past Heath's original premise when it is predicated with his opening contention.
post #3 of 10
Nice to see SCSA got kidnapped and deprogrammed.
post #4 of 10
Originally Posted by Rick
Nice to see SCSA got kidnapped and deprogrammed.
I'm not quite convinced he's taken THAT cure.

It's like reading stuff from an Islamic website. I read what SCSA had to say and just shook my head. I'm not smart enough to understand a thang (SCSA) the guy sez.

I have, however, long been a supporter of the guy.

Like all of us he has his good days and bad and we share a special bond. He and I fuss and feud a bit, however, I sense we'll always remain friends. He does love skiing.
post #5 of 10
Rusty and Rick,

I really think SCSA has mellowed a bit (on the good days). We had a great talk at Loveland and he was really sincere that the bickering BS needs to stop-we are all skiers and we should be able to discuss technique in a non hostile environment. AMEN!!!

Now please excuse me while I go get hostile with a driver that was quite belligerent today-its primary movement was left-right hand little finger was inverting too much at impact. At least the great sparklies from the sky chased me from the course before it became fish food this morning. Hopefully the lead tape lead to a cuss adjustment. We'll see after the junior clinic in the AM.
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 

Here is what I found interesting in John Heath's article

that didn't take long to get hijacked in so many ways.

What I thought that was interesting and relevant that John Heath wrote was about coaching styles.

What I was thinking was interesting was:

1. HH does not think in terms of teaching but providing experiences. The skier ultimately teaches themself.

2. A focus on External cues rather than outcomes.

3. The apparent contradiction of this and applicablity of similar contradictions for one's self in that his own cues he focuses on are totally outcome based.

4. The fact that much of skiing is counterintuitive and the approaches used to instill different muscle memory patterns.

5. The use of gate training once a student is ready so a student can't think too much

6. A movement to be taught is explained in understandable detail before practiced.

7. The vast selection of tools to help the student learn in a non-linear fashion.

8. The focus on producing experiences for the skier that improve their ability to balance.

The other thread on learning / teaching approaches I found very interesting and thought this might be interesting for people interested in that subject.

I had a racquetball coach that used to be one of the olympic trial coaches as well as multiple national champion in both singles and doubles (when racquetball was being considered as an official sport for the olympics 10 years ago) that followed much the same principles.

From my own experience working with different ski coaches, the external cues focus is one of the standout differences that I found useful as a student.

I'm a nerdy learner so like the full explaination then having the movement demonstrated before I try it. My son is the oppisite. If you give him the details he'll think too much. Just show him the move and he'll monkey see monkey do. But he has years of multiple martial arts experience behind him so learns this way in a way that doesn't work for me at all. So, the approach to explain the movement first my be counter productive to many people.

I would think the coach would need to assess the student's learning style to tailor the approach.

Take care all - I'm off to ski with SCSA and others this week. He has never skied gates before so this will be interesting. (I've never skiied trees before and SCSA does that all the time - so he should do fine)

If my cell internet works up there I'll pop up a video of people that give me their permission. Like Skiersynergy or SCSA (or me).
post #7 of 10

please explain what makes a "methodology" distinct from a method.
post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 

Methodology = Style - Philosophy of Coaching

Pick a word. People have different teaching styles.

Arcmeister likes to bring in a lot of Eastern or Holistic elements in his approach, yet his method of skiing is the same.

Two different coaches teaching identical stuff, but very different approach to presenting the material. Different approaches resonate with different students and a mix of teachers often will round out the gaps in understanding of a particullar student.

As far a learning in a camp environment, that's one of the things I've always found helpful if at some point in the camp the instructors rotate.

Method, Methodology - I'm sorry. I don't understand your question.
post #9 of 10
I think you did answer it though. thanks.
post #10 of 10
It's interesting to see an outside perspective on this, thanks for posting john

1. HH does not think in terms of teaching but providing experiences. The skier ultimately teaches themself.
HH and PSIA are not alone in this, educational learning theory can and is applied in many areas. The US Ski team and USSA have adapted an experiential approach. They are using drills to give the skier feedback and keep the talking to a minimum.

6. A movement to be taught is explained in understandable detail before practiced.
Not for everyone. Sometimes all you need to do is say "try this." It depends on the learning style of the student.

One thing it seems PSIA and PTMS instructors have in common is they talk too much.

Have fun with the gates John!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching