or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Arms/hands - Page 2

post #31 of 79
Post deleted by spg
post #32 of 79
Bull!
post #33 of 79
Post deleted by spg

post #34 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPG
If it is bull then I want you to drive back home the next time you forget your poles, or have to do a ski related job where you cannot carry poles. I also want you to ski with your hands way forward and your hips way aft over the tails of your skis and write down on a tablet how many people still tell you, “get your hands forward.”
More Bull on top of Bull! Keep heaping it on!
post #35 of 79
Okay now, it is all about balance. Do you see tight rope walkers with their arms at their side , no! Why do the best and fastest skiers in the world have their hands wide to the side and driving forward at the gate.

Because for balance and proper biomechanics that is the most efficient position for the task at hand!

In skiing the arms and hands are directly related to biomechanics of the upper body. They are directly connected and do have an effect on your balance..

Try carving a a turn on a steep slope with your hands & arms at your sides. You can make a turn, but I almost guarantee you can't carve that turn.

Where and how you plant your pole and reach with your arms/hands has a huge impact on your skiing. For instance, you plant more downhill of your boot to pull your upper body down the hill on steeper slopes. You also hold your arms out front and use more wrist action so their is minimal movement or swinging of the arms to prevent roatation which dirctly effects your ability to keep your skis from skiddingparticularly your tails.

When you unweight in a low position the arms must be forward and the upper body must be bent forward at the waist to maintain edge contact and balance.

So in conclusion, since you do have arms & hands you should use them in the most efficient way possible to obtain consistent balance. That position is not low around your knees or with your hands in your pockets or down at your sides. It is about 1 foot out and 2 feet forward and at about shoulder level if you ski with a fair amount of inclination. If you ski more upright with your skis directly under you you can have them a little bit lower.

To sum it up I think we are back to; a consistently balanced athletic stance is the goal.
post #36 of 79
Hear hear A-man!

Now for extra credit.....

Who wrote the immortal phrase: "Ski with your feet. Balance with your hands." ?
post #37 of 79
Sonny Bono?
post #38 of 79
Sorry Atomicman, he used his head.
post #39 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Square
Sorry Atomicman, he used his head.
At least he was leading with his head!
post #40 of 79
Hey did you hear about the plaque Heavenly put on the tree Sonny hit as a memorial?.... it read: "I got you babe"

sorry?
post #41 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman
Hey did you hear about the plaque Heavenly put on the tree Sonny hit as a memorial?.... it read: "I got you babe"

sorry?
Like it!
post #42 of 79
post deleted by spg
post #43 of 79
You absolutely have the right to post, but with that right comes the risk of someone agreeing or disagreeing with your comments and then voicing their opinion in response.

This is called interchange of ideas. Whenever I post, I realize I am putting my ideas out there to possibly be shot down. I do reexamine my opinion often when someone disagrees with my post. I either decide to change my way of looking at the subject or I adhere to my original thought or a combo thereof. I think a little introspect is probably positive for all of us.

But with all that said, your idea of hands/arms forward is just some non important instructor rhetoric and no biomechanical or balance advantage to proper hand/arm position is not a saleable idea to me for the reasons stated above.

Now you have included many other important aspects of high level skiing, ankle flex, parallel shins, wider stance and so forth. On the contrary, these ARE unequivocally important aspects of proficient efficient high level skiing and most skiers who have not reached that level of skiing almost universally do need to do more of these things.

99% of the folks I see on the hill are in the backseat for instance.


You make having your hands forward, parallel shins and a wider stance sound like a communist plot propagated by the evil empire to bilk billions & billions of dollars from unsuspecting intermediate skiers.


I think you have been insulting to the ski ionstructors on the forum. Most of them take what they do to heart and are really trying to do the finest job they know how to help people improve their skiing. Are all instructors great? No. But I think the vast majority put their own skiing time aside to truly help others and enjoy it when their students have a breakthrough. But, it is very difficult to change how you ski. Instructors take on a big challenge in attempting to help students.

Now understand one more thing. I am not an instructor and never have been. Just a dad who has skied for 42 years that has 2 racers and spends a lot of time around some very high level coaching. I also read, look at pics and try to emulate the skiers that I look up to and try to analyze what i think they are doing. I often bounce thses ideas off of the kids head coach who was once on the World Cup himself. So I really take no credit for any original ideas here, it's just what I have learned from those much more knowledgeable than I am.

Post on!
post #44 of 79
I apologize if I offended anyone. I was not trying to insult anyone and I was just trying to express an opinion. I also did not say those things the way, in which, you have said I did. This board does not really belong to me so I guess I will just exit in a humble manner. You are correct; hands are important to some extent.
post #45 of 79
SPG, didn't mean to come across so harsh. I thought our exchange was interesting and helpful. I just get a little passionate and emotional at times. It made me think hard about the subject at hand and look at all the stuff I wrote, if I didn't care I would not have responded.

Don't let some of us crusty old guys scare you off!
post #46 of 79
That is ok. It is good to have a strong opinion. I think I was just not able to convey the idea that some people can over employ catch phrases, without making my post sound critical of instructors. There are many good instructors out there and the people on this page are knowledgeable. Buzzwords are all right if they are explained and applied under the right conditions.
post #47 of 79
No worries! thanks!
post #48 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Never seeing you ski, I really can't help you.
Ron, I posted the video
http://esa.epicski.com/video/nolojanesa.mpg in response to your post. I would love to get your input.

"You learn to ski in summer..."
post #49 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Who wrote the immortal phrase: "Ski with your feet. Balance with your hands." ?
I don't know who wrote it, would love to know. It's a keeper.
post #50 of 79
Lito -- "Breakthrough on the new skiis."
post #51 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
For me, getting the arms/hands right has been the hardest thing in skiing. They're still too low, but at least they're symmetrical--I'm not dropping one, which is my big victory for the year. Anyway, Dave Cook says, in his article in the last TPS, "The Five Sames," that we want our hands the same distance from (above) the snow and the same distance ahead of the shoulders. He goes on to say "Don't over apply this same."

Do you have any personal rules about where to hold your arms/hands?
Getting back to the original question, nolo, the only thing I visualize, regarding hand position, is holding a tray of drinks (shooters all 'round) and when I switch edges to drop into the fall line, I "serve the tray of drinks". Silly, I know. But it seems to work for me in GS turns.
post #52 of 79
I too suffer from hand positions that I don't like. I have tried a wide variety of remedies.

It is at it's very worst in bumps. Particularly with my right hand. It is interesting to note Bud's correlation/query re alignment. I made a fairly big change in my right boot cant this year and I'm told that my hands have improved.

Four things helped me. Perhaps they'll help others;

1. Keeping the inside hand strong/aligned/ahead of the outside.

2. Creating "useful" tension in my humerous. Maintaining the same angle in the upper arm. Turning my palms "face down" as the turn evolves.

3. Replacing a plant with a very soft touch......particularly in bumps.

4. Always feel as though I'm attempting to markedly move my hands "forward and up" past the gravity line.

My hands aren't good yet, however, I suppose I managed some change.
post #53 of 79
nolo,

You are a really good skiier from the clip i watched of you. I noticed that you come up between turns ( sorry, I do it too some times). You need to combine your edge change with your direction change, by extending lateraly and moving your inside half and knees toward the direction of the new turn, I only wish we lived closer, so we could ski together ( it would be a blast). Your lateral balance is a little off because you are comming up between your turns and that is possibly why your hands and arms are lagging. Cowboy turns are a good drill for you, or tuck turns. Also work on retraction turns, extending laterly and retracting the equipment under you (it helps in the bumbs too).
It is a little adjustment for a skiier of your of your ability.
Thank you for the video. I hope what I am saying has meaning to you.
Ps: Keep on ripping!
RW
post #54 of 79
nolo,
My boss always tells the staff on the first day of skiing, "don't try to impress me with what you have learned this summer". Meaning, get your skiis under you first, then work on your focus.
RW
"less is more"
post #55 of 79
atomicman"post on!
good job, and ski with your kids and their coach!
post #56 of 79
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the review, Ron. I'll tuck it away for next season.
post #57 of 79
As a starting point, I put my hands as though they were on a small steering wheel (as in sportscar, not bus) in from of me. In retrospect they are about chest high, and elbows at about 90 degrees, elbows slightly ahead of hips but behind knees. I'm comfortable. I don't know if that's right or not, but it works for me.
post #58 of 79
Ghost I do the same thing. The steering wheel helps me focus my upper body.
post #59 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
As a starting point, I put my hands as though they were on a small steering wheel (as in sportscar, not bus) in from of me. In retrospect they are about chest high, and elbows at about 90 degrees, elbows slightly ahead of hips but behind knees. I'm comfortable. I don't know if that's right or not, but it works for me.
Sounds like you hands are too close together and they can't possibly far enough in front or high enough with your elbow at a 90 degrees. Are you sure that is where you arms and elbows are.

To have your elbows at 90 degrees your elbow and upper arm would have to be directly under your shoulders and the way you described it almost tight to your sides.

My elbows are probably at more of a 45 and my wheel is more like a bus not a little sports car wheel.
post #60 of 79
I think my elbow makes a 90 degree angle between my upper and lower arm, but my arm is rotated at the shoulder joint so that the elbows are in fact in front of me. My hands are in front of me, breaking the wind. They are about shoulder width apart or closser if I'm going straight and fast, maybe in line height and width wise with my nipples. Maybe they are too close together. I hunch my shoulders a little too much too. I guess I have bad habbits from spending too much time in a "tuck" .
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching