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Video for your end of season MA practice/fun

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Mid Morning Spring snow. At Squaw Valley Shirlely Lake run 5.

Medium steep, and "Chemically treated" for the race team. It's fast and firm.

Squaw Video

3 different skiers 2 runs each. (one got very truncated as the video person could not find the skier)

Have fun..

post #2 of 19
Thread Starter 
I'm amazed. Usually everyone want's to be a critic. 40 + views and no comments.
post #3 of 19
Suntans and Maching on the runs.
post #4 of 19
can't make it work? Any tips?
post #5 of 19
Originally Posted by dchan
I'm amazed. Usually everyone want's to be a critic. 40 + views and no comments.
Could it be end of season burnout?????:
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by paul jones
can't make it work? Any tips?
What error or problem.

It's a .WMV so windows media player or Real player should both open it.

If it doesn't just start by double clicking on it, try right clicking on it, saving the file and then playing it in your media player of choice.

post #7 of 19
I could view the clip with windoze media player, but it was full of ghosting and jerky sections. Hard to feel accurate about what I was seeing. So I didn't comment. If I remember correctly (it's been a couple days and my antique phone dial-up connection takes half an hour to load it) the first skier was the strongest, smoothest. That one looked like he was performing rather than reacting to the given condition encountered. I couldn't see the skis clearly, but I seem to recall too much up movement and not enough forward into the turn. The second skier had more pronounced up at turn initiation and appeared more tentative, possibly because of the steepness. I thought I could see some skid in the start and end of each turn. The third one was just too fuzzy and jerky to view well.
post #8 of 19

I'll echo Kneale - "not tonight dear I have headache" from watching all that shaky video. It takes a bit of practice, but two tips will help improve video for analysis:
1) Use electronic image stabilization
2) Try to keep the camera zoomed so that the skiers takes up 1/2-2/3 of the viewfinder.

I liked the first skier and there's too much summer to add any more critique. What's up with the second skier doing the airplane move on the left turns? Getting the weight forward will help to reduce the up move. The third skier did a much improved run on the second run. From there my advice would be to engage the edges more (e.g. using ankles) to let the skis do more of the work.
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
What's scary is image stabilization was turned on.

The first 2 clips were by someone who never used this video camera before. so shaky and zoom issues.
He also moved the diopter all the way to one side so I couldn't see as well until I fixed that when I started video taping the second section.

I'm in the process of breaking up the clips into smaller chunks and trying to learn how to do image repairs in premier.

I'll post more soon.

post #10 of 19
What I got from the video: It was a nice warm spring day @Squaw Friday. Saturday, was pretty much the same, got up to 70deg. Some shots around the outdoor pool @ high camp would have been nice!! Wasn't that somthing!!
On Saturday, I
Caught an edge right under Shirley Lake Chair (Flat part near the bottom) and cracked a rib! Hey at least they cheered from the chair. I think many there were secretly hoping I would go down.

PS Weather @ Squaw and Alpine has sucked since Saturday.
post #11 of 19

Camera Stabilization

Just a tip for all you videographers and photographers out there. Always use a stand or steadying device of some type. It helps prevent movement.

If all I have are my poles, I wrap the straps together, hold the poles like a bi-pod, and then rest the camera on top. This helps insure that my aim is steady.

When taking a lot of videos, I take along my tripod and use it as a monopod. (Keep all the legs together.) If needed, I'll take off my skis and use them to support the mono-pod to prevent it from sinking into the snow.

My father has a neat semi-monopod. He uses an eyebolt that will fit the tripod attachment point of the camera. To this he attached a four to five foot heavy cord. At the base of the cord he made a large knot. He fits the eyebolt into the camera, steps on the cord, (the knot keeps it from slipping), then exerts a slight bit of tension on the cord while holding and aiming the camera. While not as good as a monopod it is a good stabilizing device. (For us skiiers, you could put a loop in the bottom of the cord to fit your boot through. Better than stepping on a cord on the snow.)

If you use one of these ideas with electonic stabilization, you will get an almost rock solid picture.

For those of you interested in movement with the camera, here are some steady-cam ideas.

http://www.homebuiltstabilizers.com/ (Multiple ideas.)

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/ ($14 Steadycam)


http://www.studio1productions.com/smoothcam.htm (The $200 version.)

http://www.varizoom.com/ (Professional rigs if you have a spare $3K+ sitting around.)
post #12 of 19
Yeah DC,

I guess your image stabilization does not work too well if you're having an epileptic fit during taping. But seriously, when I played this clip in frame by frame, every frame was duped. I've seen this before with wmv files. I believe the second frame is from the overscan (each still of video is actually two passes on the screen). The problem is caused during the digitization process.

I use a telephoto lens on my video camera. When the camera is zoomed so far that the digital zoom is being used, then the picture can get very shaky.

I tried the tripod thing for a while. It works great, but it's a pain to carry around and set up and take down. It only takes a little practice to be able to hold the camera steady. Sometimes kneeling on the snow helps too. Another thing I do to make it easy to tape is to stay in the center of the victim (oops - subject)'s track as they came at me head on. This way you don't have to move the camera as much to keep them in the picture.
post #13 of 19
O crap, now I remember the double frame thing. It's the V1 software I'm using. It does this with some .wmv files. Never mind.
post #14 of 19
Thread Starter 
not sure how much better this clip is. It's blurry due to the interlace/de-interlace process. I was able to zoom and pan some of the images to get a overall better view.

post #15 of 19
The skier in the second video (You last post) is right handed, and is more comfortable making right hand turns. When carving to the right the skier is committed to the turn and drags right pole to telegraph orientation to the terrain. When turning to the left the turn is not as fluid? Left pole is not being pressured into the snow to give feedback. (Just getting the turn over with) so he can make another comfortable smooth right turn.

PS: There may also be some issues due to the fact that the skier knows they are being recorded and attempting to do the right thing rather than the natural thing.
post #16 of 19
Thread Starter 
Same skiers as in the first video.

2 skiers. On the first video these 2 skiers were first and third.
post #17 of 19
First skier (red on sleeves) generates much higher edge angles and looks more powerful. Second (old third) makes similar turns but doesn't get on the edges quite as soon. Both are outside foot dominant on initiations with the movement of the inside foot onto its outside edge delayed slightly. I'd like to work with either or both on engaging the inside foot in the turn initiation while making the same outside foot moves.
post #18 of 19
You may not agree with these contents, but what do you think about the format?

For skier one only:

General: This is decent skiing, but the sequential use of the legs make this look a bit like an exercise. As does the lack of pole use. I do not think this skier actually skiis like this all the time, but I do think they usually phase their extension and flexion in the "classic" up unweight, turn and brace mold.

This example appears to be a version of the early weight shift turn: early weight shift with traverse.

Stance and balance:

@Initiation: The skier has completed stepping forward onto the new outside ski just before initiation. At initiation, balance point moves away from uphill ski to between skiis. Fore and aft is fine.

During turn: Stance gets a little low through the turn and is being muscularly, not skeletally supported quite early on. The inside ski sneeks forwards, weight is balanced on the outside ski.(possible counter attempt?)

Fore and aft position is good, but hips could be more open. ( Which would also bring the inside foot back. )

@Completion: Balance point begins to move uphill, between the skiis and feet. Balance point precedes the outside foot as the step to uphill ski begins. Movement of COM downhill is delayed.

In transition: COM moves from downhill to uphill ski during a traverse. The inertia of the COM on exit from the previous turn has been lost. COM moves between the skiis, and weight ends up on the uphill ski. The skier has regrouped and is ready to launch the next turn from the uphill ski.

Pressure control:

@Initiation: Pressure is on uphill ski during the traverse.

During: Uses muscular support on the outside ski for absorption in a low posture. Inside ski remains mostly unweighted.

@Completion: outside ski flexion signals start of weight transfer to uphill ski.

In transition: Pressures are never fully released. They diminish naturally after completion, when weight is transferred to uphill ski.


@Initiation: Early edge. Sometimes shoulders lead the COM into new turn, but not often.

During turn: Nice equal edge angles.

Completion: Release of turn is from uphill ski after weight transfer. Tip lead exceeds counter => not much inside ski activity.

In Transition: Dominant edges transition from BTE of outside ski, to LTE of uphill ski, which then rolls onto BTE. Edges of old downhill ski (new inside ski) are not used.


@Initiation: Step to new outside ski and twist. Sometimes with whole body -- when shoulders lead the turn, the whole body twists.

During turn: Rotary continues as tails wash out.

@Completion: Excessive tip lead.

@Transition: none.


Poles are way too long. Cut 2 inches minimum.


This is decent skiing, though the loss of inertia of CM which could otherwise be used to launch the new turn makes it rather undynamic. There so much independent ski action at completion through transition that this becomes a series of unlinked turns, all launched from the uphill ski... Forget about adding counter now.

Suggestion: If the skier wishes to make this early weight shift turn more dynamic, as an exercise, they should try very early weight transfer, and transfer weight to the inside ski at the fall line.

Regardless, make sure that the phasing of extension and flexion is reversed:

Extension should be at maximum at the fall line using skeletal support. Flexion is maximum at transition, using muscular support. The skier should concentrate on keeping their shoulders the same height above the snow at all times.

Also, plant the poles when the skis go flat! Making them shorter will let the skier use them while flexed.

The excessive tip lead should vanish.

That's my 2 cents -- hope it's worth that much.....
post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
Here's another question (answer separatly for each of the skiers on the second video)

What kind of turns would you classify these as? SR? Shmedium?

And if you were "scoring" for exams would they pass LII? How about LIII? (see the tasks threads) Why or why not? Justify your score..

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