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strong inside but not contribed

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
How do you create a strong upper inside half with out becoming static or contribed?This past winter I did some video w/ some kids I have been coaching w/ all season. The task was a free run w/ catch you had to leave lines in the snow{carving} My first video run appeared to be the strongest. However I noticed that I would snap my inside rist and pole back in accordince to the radius and intensity to the given turn. after reviewing the video I tried to correct this by lifting my inside hand and moving it to the inside of the turn. When reviewing that video I noticed I lost all movement and flow it appered to be contribed. My next run I tried to match the progressive tension of my legs and feet to my core and arms. This was a little better than the previous run. But I noticed once again I was droping my rist slightly{causing a slight outside to inside rotation} This run was still far more static than my first had been. I guess the only other conclusion I have is to weight my inside leg more so it compliments my upper inside half. Or is slight rotation needed in pure carve turns medium/long? I have noticed lots of world cupers appear to have a stronger outside half intially and drop inside hand through part of the turn before driving forward to the next gate. {yes they are super human and can get away w/ almost anything.} But is this just an effect of the turn and its forces? What am I doing wrong? please le me know your thoughts? because I am puzzled finding the happy medium.
post #2 of 12
This is a hard one for me, but I do feel that your first solution is the correct one--to strengthen progressively. I also feel that the amount of counter/square/rotation depends on the turn, the body, the gear aligment, and the part of the turn. In other words, that is quite individual. I also feel there is a bit of rotation at the outset, but not much and not always.

My biggest clue for you is that you may be trying to seek this strong inside half too much with what you do with your hands and arms. I think that, in addition to the inside hand moving forward (not so much to the inside of the turn), you have to make sure and use those core muscles that can block the twist of the torso towards the turn. I don't even know what they're called, but when I feel a strong inside half, I feel I progressively harden those muscles in my torso that are on the side (front and back). I feel a lot of pressure in the lower side of my back as well as the lower side of my abdomen. This seems to be in happy opposition to a strengthening/flexing of my gluteals on the outside half of the body.

I really practice this. This builds the resistence to the pressure and keeps me aligned through the turn.
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Weems, moving my hand to the inside was my first reaction to the video. Everything else looked solid so it was my firs attempt on how to make the overall picture better. I agree I think I really need to harness the strength of my core{time to hit the gym}I just don't understand why my skiing is much more fluid and dynamic when I give a little to the inside by cocking my rist back? Could it be because I am macthing my upper half to my lower half? It makes sense that in order to emulate world cup turns you need to be phyisically up to the task. Not posessing the required core strength could easily twist you up a bit when attempting such. I am gonna try and make some turns tomarrow so I'll think about it.


post #4 of 12
Buffon, try isolating your hip movements. Try simply lifting your inside hip as you start a turn, This lifting should be done wiht the focus of the lift coming from the opposite hip and leg. Try to make a connection of feel between the outside foot and the inside hip. this feel would be as if the outside foot is pushing the inside hip and lateraly (sideways) into the turn. as this happens let the inside hip move progressively forward through the turn.

I agree with what Weems said. The arms should move as an expression of the what is being felt in the body.

Focusing on and isolating hip movement will engage the very muscles Weems was talking about feeling. The inner and outer obliques, the transverse, and the quadratus lumborum. Later, RicB.
post #5 of 12
The inner and outer obliques, the transverse, and the quadratus lumborum. QUOTE]

Yeah. Those muscles!

Buffoon, I guess I don't know exactly what you mean when you say cock your wrist back. I do remember a stabilizing movement I learned years ago (watching Piero Gros from the Italian team) who seemed to ski with both palms facing down. When I tried it, it seemed to stabilize the torso.
post #6 of 12
Here's my favorite post (from nolo) with regards to skiing with a strong inside half and appropriate counter, that really made the difference for me:

This isn't complicated: I want my center of mass to act on the inside edge of the outside ski, which is to say I want the combined forces of centrifugal force and gravity to line up between my inside hip and the inside of my outside foot. My inside hip actively controls where pressure lands on my outside foot; I want it to land at the precise spot where it will effortlessly drive the inside edge of the outside ski into the snow. If I get that response from the ski then I guess I have the right amount of counter. This photo and arrows illustrates what I mean, though the yellow line is a bit off.

weems--What's your take on this?
post #7 of 12
As well as lifting the new inside hip as RicB describes, I try to add moving that hip slightly forward. I like the thought of those moves becoming connected with the inside of the outside foot, but I try to let the hip move as a part of flexing the inside ankle.
post #8 of 12
Originally Posted by Coach13
Here's my favorite post (from nolo) with regards to skiing with a strong inside half and appropriate counter, that really made the difference for me:

weems--What's your take on this?
I think this is right on. The only thing I'd add is what I have added above. As the pressure builds there is a lot of torso muscular work to be accomplished in order to resist well. When I release the resistence I've built through that phase, it's so powerful, that I sometimes let go a grunt sound to accompany the movement back across and down the hill.
post #9 of 12
A strong inside half is not an end but a means to an end (to resist well, as Weems says). Only when it is an end or an objective does it become contrived.
post #10 of 12

Be fluid while turning means moving in the direction intended. While moving to the left, the left side should move left (don't let the foot lead) and right side should move toward the right in a right turn. This means the theigh, hip, rib cage, peck, and sholder. This allows th CM to move with the equipment. Too often, one part or another is left behind and any movement is directed against the equipment. As nolo stated, skiing to counter is a means to an end. There are many drills that help you learn to ski with a strong inside half (if done correctly). There is only so much movement of the right and left sides, so use it throughout the entire turn.
Good luck.
post #11 of 12
Originally Posted by Ron White

CM to move with the equipment. RW
I like both Nolo's and Ron's posts. But this idea of the CM moving WITH the gear is so exactly what I want to do in skiing. It's like the essence of dynamic, aligned, and fluid balance for me.
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 

thanks all

Thank you all for your comments. After some time on the hill the other day. I palyed with progressing tension in my core vs guiding w/ my hand. Hopefully overtime I can own the timing.
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