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Do-it-yourself Ski Wax - Page 4

post #91 of 115


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

Not familiar with the "hot-touch" technique.  Do tell.

 

I know hard/cold waxes don't work.  If the wax won't rub on, you can't waxwhizard it in.

 

You put the wax block against the iron (no need for it to be at full heat here) and soften up the face of the block.    Then you crayon onto the ski from that soft face.    

 

Iron never touches ski if you whizzard it in from there.  If you're a fan of skidoc's teachings that might be worth the price of using both tools right there, esp. for cold-ish waxes.

post #92 of 115

Oohh.  Yes I am familiar with that.  I thought you were saying the hot touching involved the wax whizard in the process.  I didn't try it last year because I assumed (I know) I still wouldn't be able to create enough heat with the whizard to rub it in. 

 

I'll give it a try this season.

 

Thanks,

Ken

post #93 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

I assumed (I know) I still wouldn't be able to create enough heat with the whizard to rub it in. 

 



Actually, you can.  The shape of the tool creates one horizontal point across the ski where all the pressure is applied as you rub it vigorously.  If you take the whizard and rub it vigorously up and down your arm with pressure, you will soon want to stop.

 

I use it exclusively for the very hard waxes to avoid the quick-cool-chipping issues created by an iron with good success.  I also use it for overlays or a quick touch-up with softer waxes with equal success.

 

 

 

post #94 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by NE1 View Post





Actually, you can.  The shape of the tool creates one horizontal point across the ski where all the pressure is applied as you rub it vigorously.  If you take the whizard and rub it vigorously up and down your arm with pressure, you will soon want to stop.

 

I use it exclusively for the very hard waxes to avoid the quick-cool-chipping issues created by an iron with good success.  I also use it for overlays or a quick touch-up with softer waxes with equal success.

 

 

 



Well now I'm going to have to try it.  Might have and issue getting up to "vigorously" since I'm still on the injured list but should be able to do at least part of a ski.

post #95 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post



 

we use mineral oil for the cutting boards.


Yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraffin

 

I don't know much about ski waxes so please elaborate on the differences between mineral oil and wax.

post #96 of 115


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post


I don't know much about ski waxes so please elaborate on the differences between mineral oil and wax.

 

I guess what I'm asking is: what do you gain by using mineral oil? 


The primary difference is the size range and size distribution of the wax/oil molecules, which makes for mineral oil being liquid at useable temps, and paraffin wax being either liquid or solid at useable temps.

 

(With the possible exception of very specific, very restricted compositions of either chemical),  there is not a very great difference in lubricity or price that would give mineral oil an advantage, so why give up the very useful property of the paraffin wax: when it's cold it stays where we put it when it was warm?

 

post #97 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post


 

 

I guess what I'm asking is: what do you gain by using mineral oil? 


The primary difference is the size range and size distribution of the wax/oil molecules, which makes for mineral oil being liquid at useable temps, and paraffin wax being either liquid or solid at useable temps.

 

(With the possible exception of very specific, very restricted compositions of either chemical),  there is not a very great difference in lubricity or price that would give mineral oil an advantage, so why give up the very useful property of the paraffin wax: when it's cold it stays where we put it when it was warm?

 


Thank you for the explanation! :)

 

The gain would be that the base prep would be very very simple. Just spread the fluid. Wipe off whenever feel like it.

 

Here's some more thoughts:

For preparation of a new pair of skis (or similar base condition), it's often recommended to use a soft wax first in order to saturate the base, and then use a wax for the temperature given. The latter wax might be a very hard wax if the weather is cold.

Following your argumentation regarding the mineral oil, the soft wax for saturation is not a perfect solution. Will it in fact make the cold/hard wax work poorly compared to a ski saturated with cold/hard wax from the beginning?

 

 

post #98 of 115
The bottom line is that the choice of wax has everything to do with the _rate_ at which it bleeds out of the base to lubricate the base surface as you ski. A cold wax will not bleed out fast enough under warm conditions and a warm wax will bleed out too fast under cold conditions leaving dry surfaces in both cases. A mineral oil will bleed out the fastest and not serve any purpose.
post #99 of 115

Wow, looks like there are plenty of do it your selfers and a few companies on here.

 

 3 years ago I embarked on this same journey with what I would consider success. For the same reasons as the person who started this thread, I also wanted to make ski wax. I started snowboarding in 1998 with my best friend. Right from the get go I knew wax was crucial to the longevity of my gear. A couple years later, as my skills on the mountain evolved, I learned about tuning. After a 6 year hiatus, I learned how to repair the riding surface. I love to tune and wax my board between every trip to the mountain. I believe whole heartedly that you absolutely cannot have too intimate of a knowledge with your board or skis. 

 

In the beginning, I came across message board after message board of discussions similar to this one. Some random person wanted to learn to make their own wax for personal use because yes, wax IS expensive. Especially when you let it become an obsession. The price of wax follows the fluctuation of petroleum as that's what it is typically made of. Organic waxes, in my opinion, are environmentally sound. But the sad truth of the matter is that they produce far more grip than glide despite being hydrophobic. Plus they have a higher coefficient of friction than hydrocarbon waxes (paraffin). The lower the coefficient of friction, the higher the longevity. I.E: Scrape wax on the sidewalk and then scrape and then scrape chap stick on the same sidewalk. The chap stick is softer and doesn't last very long because it has a higher coefficient of friction due to the fact that its softer, even tho it's more slippery. 

 

I spent COUNTLESS hours online researching everything I could find about the different types of waxes and their role in ski wax. I took notes on the important stuff, acknowledged the rest and then discarded it. I lucked out and didn't have to pay a wax giant to get me going. I learned through trial and error and further research on my failed attempts. On my 7th formulation, I had my brush with success. My best good friend had always taken his gear to local shops for maintenance and wax on his board. I have always done my own.  I outweigh him by 10 to 20 lbs on any given day and could NEVER keep up with him. After I found a successful formulation, I passed him all day. Beyond that, he couldn't keep up with me AND, just out of curiosity, I intentionally didn't tune and wax my board to test the longevity. At the end of the 4th trip to the mountain, the edges of the riding surface (approx. 3/4" in from the riding edge) were beginning to oxidize because the wax had finally worn off. I knew I had something right then and there. 

 

3 years into making ski wax, I'm on the shelf of 3 local sports stores for the second year in a row and am going to be in the shop in at least 2 of my local resorts. All my retailers sold every last stick last year. I've started a ski wax business with my own money. And literally from the ground up. There are no banks or lenders involved although, I do keep my lawyer's number close as there are legalities to starting any business. It's rough but I don't expect to net millions a year either. Right now, it guarantees that my kids get a decent Xmas and that they get to join the fun on the mountain as much as possible. The rest goes right back into my business for expansion and supplies. Although I'm still very small scale and even smaller potatoes, It costs me less than a penny a gram to make my product and I rake a minimum of  380% profit and still undersell any competition by a fair cry on a retail level. Once my business expands and there is a higher demand for my wax, my cost to manufacture will drop significantly. 

 

It's amazing what we can conquer when we put our minds to it and ignore every obstacle and pessimistic comment on our intentions and accomplishments. I hope you all find success in your goals of making your own ski wax.

 

I can't tell you what is in it and its comments like that you must ignore. People DO need to protect their livelihood and dreams. I will however tell you where I've failed and my opinions on certain methods. 

 

Most of you are on the right track with paraffin. Pay attention to melting point. I use 140F melting point paraffin as my main ingredient (that's all you get to know lol). You're right in it being too soft so a hardener IS definitely needed. There are several out there so do your research. The amount needed per pound of wax varies depending on the hardener and what grade of wax you want to achieve (cold, warm, all-temp). There are more ingredients in my mix  that add speed but that part I can't clue anyone in on for obvious reasons. I can tell you it IS NOT PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene or as dupont calls it, teflon) Teflon is used in fluorocarbon wax and it's extremely difficult to get it to disperse evenly through your mix. Even in micronized form, it still clumps together and settles to the bottom. The PTFE molecule is a single carbon atom with 2 polymer atoms attached to it. The carbon molecules will bond to each other as well as other compatible atoms. The bond between the carbon and poly atoms is virtually unbreakable. This is why "teflon" is so slippery and stick resistant. The polymer atoms will bond to literally nothing, except other polymers. Thus being said, a polymer wax is needed to help disperse the PTFE evenly. The wax part will blend with your wax formula and the polymer part will adhere to the PTFE helping it stay suspended versus settling to the bottom. Even after all that, it's very difficult to get the desired effect. I personally don't mess with PTFE as it collects in out blood throughout our lives and is ultimately HORRIBLE for our bodies and environment. It's just not worth my time. 

 

Moly wax is EXTREMELY expensive to make and stinks. The active ingredient is natural and, in minute quantities, essential for proper human body function. Consume too much and you get the worst case of the runs ever. (I only know this from the MSDS on the product lol) Moly wax isn't your everyday wax and isn't necessary for you everyday run of the mill riding surfaces. And don't ever put pure moly on your bare board. It plugs the pores in the sintered riding surface. The wax you lay on top of it won't adhere very well and will ride off in 2 to 3 runs. Bees wax and Soy both grip really bad and are counter productive. 

 

For now, I use 9/10 gm of crayon per pound of paraffin for a nice subtle tint. Any staining can be removed but waxing with plain paraffin and scraping it all off. If this happens, just use less crayon.  

 

I hope this helps someone in their journey. I ran into a lot of pessimistic and rude comments as well as people being sarcastic and demeaning. It would have been a great day to find information like what I posted above when I was starting out. 

 

Good luck =)

post #100 of 115
What a great first post, JGibson. Welcome to EpicSki!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #101 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGibson View Post

 

3 years into making ski wax, I'm on the shelf of 3 local sports stores for the second year in a row and am going to be in the shop in at least 2 of my local resorts. All my retailers sold every last stick last year. I've started a ski wax business with my own money.

 

 

So now we're all dying to know if you're going to sell this magical stuff online.

post #102 of 115

What the dill JGibson, can we buy some online or what?

post #103 of 115
Hey guys, sorry about the delay. I'm new to the message board thing. I originally posted my comment to give something back to the Internet snowbum society ;-) as that is how I achieved my product. Funny you ask though, because I just recently started filling orders in my home town. If you're really interested in my wax, feel free to contact me at "spankysmonkeywax@gmail.com" or check out my fb page "Facebook.com/spankysmonkeywax". I'm still barely off the ground an have yet to create an actual website but hopefully I can do something about that this season and with the PayPal feature.....I hope. Best regards everyone, thank you for your interest and I hope to talk to you sometime soon =)
post #104 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGibson View Post

"spankysmonkeywax@gmail.com" or check out my fb page "Facebook.com/spankysmonkeywax". I'm still barely off the ground an have yet to create an actual website but hopefully I can do something about that this season and with the PayPal feature.....I hope. Best regards everyone, thank you for your interest and I hope to talk to you sometime soon =)

 

Spanky Monkey wax?  Really?  That's nothing new or revolutionary.  Cream of Sumyungui has been used in many different products for countless generations.

post #105 of 115
Lol I never made any claims to being revolutionary. I just said that, through extensive research, that I successfully formulated a worthwhile ski wax lol
post #106 of 115
I posted on here tying to give something back and give people some reassurance that they're on the right track. If you're going to be rude, I'll just keep it to myself and people can figure it out on their own like I had to. Not to be rude, but life has no one way streets.
post #107 of 115

I have a passion for using the cheapest wax, white parafin[hardware store], hot wax my skis everytime before I go ...always passing people on the connecting trails, its a rush and wonder why more people do not

post #108 of 115
SpankysMonkeyWax.com

=)
post #109 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGibson View Post

SpankysMonkeyWax.com
=)


r u going to sell in bulk? i typically buy a kg at a time

post #110 of 115
I suppose anything is a possibility. Would you want in one piece or several? One blend or a variation?
post #111 of 115
If you prefer, you can email me at the link posted on the "contact us" page on the website.
post #112 of 115

We can make ski wax but self made wax is not durable unless someone who is really perfect at making ski wax and knows some good techiques and so i prefer buying the one.

www.alamanda-polymers.com
post #113 of 115
Hi all! JGibson here. I deleted my email and forgot my pw to log on here, thus forcing me to create a new account to continue posting lol. I'm just curious if my advice has helped anyone in their homemade wax ventures. I'm proud to brag that I found my way into my first resort last season smile.gif Grand Targhee Ski Resort in Alta, Wy. Unfortunately, my first 2 storefront customers have been bought out. One, by the competition (which I refuse to do business with) and the other to an outfit that doesn't support winter sports frown.gif
I reformulated my mixes last year with great improvement in speed and durability on packed and groomed snow with the ONLY negative feedback being static buildup in cold, dry pow. This year I am adding an organic and environmentally safe anti-static additive. It's also safe for the human body! And thus far, I'm STILL outlasting the competition by 2 days on the hill.

Yes, Miss Gordon, we CAN make our own wax.....AND we CAN make a product that not only lasts, but can outdo the competition. I'm not perfect by any means but through extensive research and testing, I'm conquering my dream just as easily as anyone else on this thread CAN. All it takes is patience and perseverence. I'm not here to advertise my product. I'm here to coax along anyone who is wanting to save some money, concauct their own product (be it for personal use or to share with others or even market) or just tinker with knowledge and get that warm fuzzy feeling of accomplishment.

I'm curious to know if anyone has begun to formulate their own mix and what their results are/were. I'd love to help further your process and/or give you pointers along your journey.

Much love, everyone and cheers to a fantastic upcoming snow season!!!
J. Gibson ~ Spanky's Monkey Wax
post #114 of 115

Hello JGibson,

 

This is my first post, thx to all for making this forum possible.

 

Found your original post very interesting as I am an inveterate tinkerer. I prefer to tune my own gear as I find it gives me a feeling of being connected to it somehow; kind of a zen-like quality. That being said, the idea of making my own wax formulation is very appealing, if only because I like the challenge of making things with my own hands. Am not interested in selling/starting a ski wax business, will leave that to the experts.

 

Was able to acquire some 160F deg melt point (MP) paraffin and 195F deg MP microcrystalline wax, however, I do not think blending these will achieve the required hardness. The highest MP hardener I could find is Paraflint H-1 but this still only has a MP of 208F deg. Needless to say, I do not expect you to divulge any proprietary info but would appreciate any advice you can give re: whether I am barking up the right tree...

 

Rgds,

James

post #115 of 115

I wonder what this stuff is, they say its the fastest wax.  A buddy agreed. www.dynowax.com

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