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Integrated Bindings - Page 2

post #31 of 40
It will be really interesting, how will PistonControl operate with Motion System.

Did somebody test it?
post #32 of 40
Ever since binding makers started making skis (Salomon), or boot companies started making skis and bindings (Nordica), or ski companies started making bindings (Rossignol, Atomic) there has always been the obvious motive to sell them as a two-piece suite.
It's up to consumers whether they want to be taken in by this nonsense, or to assert the right to buy skis and bindings of independent marques.
Or, more that matter, to remove a pair of bindings from a old pair of skis and remount them on a new pair.
I'd still ski a pair of 1970s Look turntable bindings on any new ski and be totally confident about the protection afforded. No significant advance in binding technology has taken place since then (viz: the huge rise in knee injuries since that time), or would someone wish to take issue with me on that?
post #33 of 40
Will Volkl have the motion system on their mono-ski, LOL? (the "monocarver")

I don't like the new graphics, I prefer the more understated "old-skool" style of this year's models.
post #34 of 40
My immediate feeling about integrated ski and binding is marketing hype trying to corner me into a single manufacturer. Soon to be extended to skis, binding AND BOOTS.

I have not seen either the pilot or motion systems up close (never bothered to look) but, looking at the volkl web site, it appears at least the motion is the binding mounted on a separate plate that then attaches to the ski. How unique is the plate? Does anyone see the possibility of other plates being offered in the future set up for bindings other than Marker? Perhaps what we are eventually going to see is a redefinition of the binding/ski interface that insulates the ski from having mounting holes drilled in it but attaches the binding of your choice to a universal mounting plate. When you buy new bindings or switch the skis to a different skier you buy a clean plate and drill it without adding a new set of holes to the ski.

The possibilities multiply. With the right system the skier could own his boots and bindings mounted on his own personal plate, adjusted for his boot, DIN setting, etc. walk into the rental shop or demo shop, mount the plate on the ski of his choice and head for the slopes.
post #35 of 40
I haven't seen it up close, but next years K2 Axis XR has a freeflex plate on it. Considering that K2 doesn't have bindings, I think its safe to say that it would accomodate several different brands of bindings. Honestly though, I doubt it'll perform as well as the Atomic, Dynastar and Rossi plates designed to work with their bindings.
post #36 of 40
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PowderJunkie:
My immediate feeling about integrated ski and binding is marketing hype trying to corner me into a single manufacturer. Soon to be extended to skis, binding AND BOOTS.

Been there, done that. for bindings and boots anyway. Anyone remember Look's foray into the integrated boot/binding system. That only lasted about a season or 2.

As far as the motion system the rails on the ski are channels that the bindings slide on so any interaction with the binding/ski is to allow them to move forward and backwards but not sideways. the only fixed point on the ski is in the center, one point of contact. this allows the whole ski to flex evenly. It works. as does the pilot system..

Salomon also makes the "hangl" plate for racers that accomplishes much of the same. I think the Hangl plate can be drilled or mounted with any binding and ski? (for those of you that have one, let us know) and in affect sets up a better flex as well as gives the skier some lift off the ski.
post #37 of 40
Next years axis XR could have a version of an epb's plate on it, i know race stock k2's from a fews years ago all had the epb's 1.3cm plate ont hem but they were branded K2 race lifters or something like that...

In my opinion the free flex plates and systems are the way to go. Both of my salomon race skis have free flex plates on them and they are the best skis i have ever skied on as far as edgehold and making a nice round carved turn. I have not tried the pilot or the motion systems as of yet but based on my experience on the hangl race plate from salomon the pilot system must ski quite nice. The hangl plate is salomon's race version of a pilot type system. In my opionion the plate has many advantages over the pilot for racing but i would never want to free ski the plate because of its weight and desire to carve constantly; but it rips when carving. I also feel that ski companies are building these systems because they do in fact work. A rossignol ski with a pps plate and an axial binding is going to work much better than a rossignol ski with a pps plate and a marker binding, simply because the plate was built for the rossignol axial binding. If your concern is about binding reliability then i would say that you cant buy a bad binding from any manufacturer these days because of the legal consequesnces that they would face if thier company was building bindings that did not work. Grandted you may prefer some bindings to others but that doesnt make all other bindings bad, and it certainly doesnt mean that a motion system is bad because it only will allow marker bindings. the system was designed for markers,a dn therefore if you tried to use any other bindings first of all it wont work but even if it did you would find a lacking performance i believe.

Systems like the pilot prefer to be on edge because of the very nature of the system. The crossmax has the plastic or rubber spacers under the binding to reduce but not cancel out the pilot effect, it is designed to give a more aggressive feel underfoot, which from the testimony of other people here is what it does. I plan to ski on some of these for a weekend sometime soon so i know how they compare to the hangl plate.

I like the idea of the integrated systems, but i dont think i would like to see the pilot system put into salomon race skis... It seems like a good free ride system or free skiing system but deffinitly not a system that could be raced on. Volkl has 2 designs for these systems: One is the motion and the other is the piston plate which will be used on their race skis next year. I talked with the head eastern race rep for volkl the other day and he said that marker and volkl teamed up to build the piston plate for their skis which is a race lifter with the piston built into it slightly similar to the energy rail i guess... I dont know too much about it but the skis he was on (P50 GS) seemed to work pretty well... (he was a damn fast skier). Two types of these systems seems to be the way to go, one for racing and one for free skiing. Salomon has the poxeraxe sl and hangl plates as well, which as both excellent freeflex systems that require salomon bindings. The systems seem to be an advantage over a traditional ski and binding set up... the best way to guage it would be to ski them back to back... try the G3 and then try the vertigo motion and such... I think its the wave of the future for skis, almost lile there were people who thought shaped skis would not catch on... there will be oponents of this change but in this case it is for the better.

ps. i like the idea of switching bindings from ski to ski.... somebody patent that idea (whoever thought of it)...
post #38 of 40
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dchan:

Been there, done that. for bindings and boots anyway. Anyone remember Look's foray into the integrated boot/binding system. That only lasted about a season or 2.


I think Nordica tried it also although my memory may be faulty. Could have been a rumor when they started putting their name on the skis and not have happened.
post #39 of 40
Atomic advertises there integrated binding plates on their higher end skis allow a free flex. Is this not so?
post #40 of 40
Just saw an item in Inside Tracks that Tyrolia will be coming out with a 'Freeflex plate' that will be, according to their press release, an integrated binding that can be mounted on any ski. No particulars given on just how this is supposed to work or what's different between this Freeflex plate and their regular FreeFlex binding.
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