Originally Posted by si
Same general location, same time of year = direct competition. I don't think your rationalization is valid in the least.
Gee, I work at Breck, bong works at Copper. Same general area, same season. Guess we can't be friends anymore by that kind of Pretzel Logic.
When did this site become a competitive business? That's what's honkin' off people. And if anything, EpicSki LLC/ESA has been less up front about the (current) nature of this site and its endeavors than have the folks behind OSP, IMHO.
Originally Posted by si
Ever been invited to an Amway meeting? I have and it was not explained to me as such. Worst of all it was my friends who invited me to their house but didn't tell me what it really was about.
I find it insulting that you compare this kind of get-together with an Amway party. Did you even look at the pictures, read any of the meet-on-the hill reports about what actually
went on? It was the kind of skiing and partying fellowship that this community used to be about. And it apparently had about 4-to-8 times the attendance of the most recent official Gathering.
ESA did not come about because nolo, WTFH, s'nomore, AC and dchan decided "wow, I've come up with a great way to make money." It came about from grassroots community requests in a vibrant community of interchange between dedicated skiers and dedicated instructors, faciliated by this great community AC started.
What's next? Take down the listing of instructors because somebody might decide to spend a few hundred dollars on privates with one of them, not leaving them budget for $825 for ESA? Fine. I don't expect ads and promotions for Linux or Solaris or IBM on a Microsoft site. But I don't expect "community" there either.
If the responses were because of being threatened by competition, here's what I expect of EpicSki LLC: an honest statement along the lines of:
"We can't keep providing this site and our ESA events while allowing promotion of any other event or gathering that might take up people's limited ski dollars. We wish our friends and members good luck in their endeavors, but any mention of any coaching or gatherings that involve coaching not under official auspices of ESA/EpicSki LLC are no longer allowed. Please see our revised Terms of Service and Acceptable Use Policy."
Then I can be an informed consumer, deciding whether I want to support EpicSki LLC's view of the skiing world or not. With my time, with my supporter donations, with my recommendations to my ski buddies, colleagues, and students.
If my hypothetical statement above is not
the current policy of EpicSki LLC, then they have perhaps more damage control to do, especially if there are non-management members shilling and spinning for the above divisive policy.
Like Bonni said, we the members are not chattel. There are no "mag
gots" left to speak of at Powermag
.com, but there are plenty of maggotfests. There will still be "gatherings of bears" whether the Barking Bears forums or some other venue is our online home.
The irony is, onsnow.org's forum membership has expanded by about 1700% during the life of these two threads here. If there hadn't been so much spinning and shilling and limited hang-out, I doubt that there'd be 70 (or more?) members at OSP already. Yes, 70 is a heck of a lot less than 7000 or whatever. But we don't have 7000 active members here. Especially around the technique topics (which is pretty much the primary focus of OSP as opposed to Epic's skiing-wide focus) there are what, maybe a hundred or so at best? Now take a look at the memberlist of OSP - an awful lot of very familar names over there already.
And 90% of that is probably from EpicSki's mis-handling of the whole situation.
A lot of us are ready to let this disagreement go, but not if there's a continued demonization of top-notch people like Barnes, Reiter, and Burch who many of us feel are some of the people who made Epic (especially the instructional areas) the great place it's been for years. They might not have ever been "owners", they might not have "bought in" to the new LLC as members ("member" in the legal sense of LLC co-owners), they might not have been site moderators, but they were a big part of the soul of this place. And let's not forget that Bob was the "Dean of EpicSki Academy" for the first ESA. It's a damn shame that his new venture was treated in such a shabby way by TPTB.