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Tracks? just for fun.

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Warning this is a fairly large clip.

In the past we have talked about how tracks in the snow can tell a lot about our skiing.

So, What do these tracks tell you?

The conditions were firm almost icy corduroy with a few softer patches and a few "marble like" patches. About a 25-30 degree pitch

I'm not going to tell you the "tasks" I was working on. Let's see what the tracks tell you.

post #2 of 18
I'm not sure what the tracks show, because I got dizzy watching the clip and fell out of my chair.
post #3 of 18
Looks like your right turn edge engagement occurs earlier and more positively more often than your left turn does. A more consistent surface would be a better demonstration.
post #4 of 18
Tells me that person was skiing on groomed ice and should find more fun conditions to ski on.... maybe wait until the sun softens it up?
post #5 of 18
post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by slider
Meaning? :
post #7 of 18
Turns are made on a flat ski therefore it skids.
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Since Slider brought it up.

Anyone care to guess what the "task" was?

KB is exempt from answering..

Still falling out of your chairs?

post #9 of 18
Task was to as inconsistent and confusing as possible.
post #10 of 18
Task: skiing with minimum edge and maximum rotary. IOW, lousy pivot slips.
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by BigE
Task: skiing with minimum edge and maximum rotary. IOW, lousy pivot slips.
Care to elaborate?
post #12 of 18
I think that you were working on making "C-shaped" turns while on a (virtually) flat ski. Sort of the opposite of a carved turn but using the same shape.
post #13 of 18

The tracks remind me of what I see when someone skis an open parallel turn keeping all the turns the same size and shape but making no effort to control the speed. The tracks start out very skiddy as there has to be a lot of rotary to guide the skis along the desired path at a low speed and become carver and more dynamic as the speed increases and the skier is able to use higher edge angles.

post #14 of 18
Same as ydnar, with more carving appearing toward the end of the tape. It appears the skis were somewhat on edge during the traverse part of the turn, but would go flatter during initiation.
post #15 of 18
Originally Posted by dchan
Care to elaborate?
The problem I have is there are several ways to leave these sort of tracks. I'll shot-gun three.

The "lousy" pivot slip: An excellent pivot slip would not take you across the hill at all. The skiis appear to be sliding through every part of every turn except neutral, where they wind up parallel and making clean tracks.

That can be done if they are parallel at all times, and turned via pivotting/steering only (no edging.) The presence of edging at the end of the turns lets me say "lousy" pivot slips. .

So assuming the skier was actually realizing their intent, there are two other options:

The basic parallel turn: Another way to think about making these tracks, is that they are steered with progressive edging after the fall line... The edge angle stops short of critical angle - there is always skid. When you want to steer the other way, you get the clean tracks between skids. Such tracks would be consistent with the "basic parallel" turn.

"Left tip left":These tracks may also have been made by a gliding wedge that gets closed before transition. I was reluctant to suggest that because very few do these turns properly -- there is USUALLY evidence that the BTE of the old downhill ski remains engaged at initiation -- in the worst case, throughout the turn. It is very unusual to see the inside ankle released at initiation.

Having said that, they could be left by someone practicing how to break out of their gliding wedge with the instruction "left ski left to turn left" etc....

I would suggest in all cases, (including the skier that made these tracks), the skier is not skeletally aligned, but was muscularly supported instead.

My original statement was "minimal edging max rotary" -- IOW, the task was displaying a basic parallel turn.

How'd I do?
post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
Good eyes..

Thanks for your elaboration BigE

First 5 turns, Short Radius not necessarily open parallel but I guess that's what they work out to be, then moving into 5 shmedium radius turns more dynamic, more edge.

The primary focus was to move very progressivly off my old edges or releaseing and onto my new edges. First very little edge and lots of controlled progressive rotary or pivot and then more edge and letting the skis sort of take their own turning radius. I continued to try to steer and guide my skis progressivly to their new edges.

When I skied with Scott at Alta he noticed I was almost getting "stuck" on my old edges and not being very progressive with my body or joints unfolding as I pass through neutral during the finish/init phase of my turns. I would hang onto the dominate outside ski around the turn and then "pop" over to the new edges. The exercise started with making pivot like turns without swinging them around and not pushing them out but rather to guide the skis all the way around the turn together. Working on releasing the old down hill or outside ski, going to neutral, then moving into the new turn in one fluid movement. Any abrupt movements should have shown up in the tracks and been a less then smooth round turn.

As I stepped up the pace in the second set of turns, I was trying to release my old outside ski, go to neutral, feel how at that point I could go just about anywhere. then gently move to the new inside edges and manage the pressure. I kind of let the skis and physics dictate where I needed to add or release pressure in order to continue the round shape in a bigger turn.

I would hope both skis went flat at each init phase of the each turn. and I would hope they went together or even old outside/new inside ski just before the other.
post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 

Pivot slips I think I can do well. It's the very subtle control of pivot movement I need to work on. getting the whole range of hard pivot to no pivot working for me.

On a good day I can probably keep my pivot slips in a corridor less than 200cm probably smaller. (skiing on 165's). Park and ride I can do pretty good too. It's the subtle shades in between I'm working on. Especially real close to the edges of this spectrum.

post #18 of 18

variaton on pivot slips

another "spin" on pivot slips that works on progressive flexion, leading to full edge engagement in the bottom of the turn

start in a traverse, about 45 deg to the fall line. the mass is following the ski tips. rotate/pivot the skis 90 back across the hill, but, initially, keep the mass flowing the same direction as the initial traverse, with the tips now perpendicular to the direction of travel. by gradually and continually increasing flexion, the edges will engage and the direction change will take place, placing the skier at a 45 degree traverse in the opposite direction. after this some extension takes place and the skis go flat as with the first traverse.
so the whole path is very z-shaped but the pivot part eventually becomes edged/carved.

this is a good diagnostic for those whose "park and ride" as it works best (only?) with progressive flexion.

also works better when the flexion increases pressure on the shovel, not just around the bindings (ie stay out of the back seat as the flexion increases and pressure builds)

those who overly rotate their skis/torso will find their skis change direction "too soon", at least for this drill.

we did this a part of 2-day ski with d-team clinic (PSIA-C, dave lyons, stevens pass ski school)

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