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Too Detune or Not To Detune

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I have heard both from many different technicians.

Some say on the "new" skis you should not detune.

Others say you still should to help initiate turns and exit turns easier if you are not an expert or racer.

What do you guys usually do for a recreational ski?

I have 03/04 Atomic R10 and R11s.

If you do detune, do you prefer a little sandpaper to detune or a gummi stone?
post #2 of 21
I sharpen from tip to tail and then tone things down wwitn a gummi from contact points forward at tip & back at tail.

With Atomics particularly, if you find your tips have a mind of their own, add a little more base bevel to the tip maybe a light .5 degree 3"-4" from contact point back. This is if you are already tuning the entire length to a 1 degree base bevel. So this small area in the tip would still be very sharp, but would be about a 1.5 in that area.

I was having a lot of trouble with all of our Atomics being stubborn in the tip a couple of years ago. I stopped by the Race Place in Bend, OR on a race trip to Mt. Bachelor & met with Scott Holmer the owner. He invented all of "The Beast" tuning gear and has a son who I heard recently made the US ski team who is a downhiller. He said Atomics need a bit more base bevel in the tip to roll smoothly into the turn. He looked at all of our skis and personally worked on the tips, adding some bevel. The skied much better. If your skis ski well being sharp tip to tail with a 1 degree, your good to go & don't have to do anything else. Most of the time the tip issue comes up is with high water content snow or very, very dry, very hard snow.

[ November 17, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]
post #3 of 21
I would not detune them. When layed over on edge, the new shapes are designed to use more of the edge on the tip and tail than straight skis. When I had my Volkl 5 stars tuned last year, I wasn't sure what to do and the shop recomended to detune them and they never skied as well as they did when they were new.
post #4 of 21
I ski(tele) a Atomic 10ex in a 177. I sharpen at 88 degrees, a 2 degree bevel from tip to tail and never have had to de-tune. DE-tuning reduces your effective edge...if you want less effective edge get a shorter ski. Just my opinion.
post #5 of 21
I have the R11 and skied it last season with the factory tune with no detuning of the tip or tail and didn't have any problems with it. I've since had them stone ground and I'm going to ski them w/o detuning.

My suggestion would be ski them first and detune later on the hill with a gummi stone if you find the tip/tails too grabby.
post #6 of 21
Buy ski's, ski for a few runs as is, if catching edges go back to car and detune, if not keep skiing. [img]smile.gif[/img] Pretty simple really.
post #7 of 21
Tune the contact points. Why would you tune elsewhere, since they don't have contact with the snow?
Wwanna hook a tip?
post #8 of 21
Just say no to detuning. Really, you're much better off to do a little extra base bevel for the first 6 or 8 cms. but leave them sharp like suggested above. Those skis have the rounded off tails and release pretty easy so it's probably not necessary back there. My last three pair of 10.20/R10s have skied great right out of the box and I don't actually bevel the shovel anymore than the rest (just 1 degree base tip to tail) but don't de tune.
post #9 of 21
JUST SAY NO, to detuning. I stopped detuning our skis years ago. Use the whole shape.
post #10 of 21
Hey Guys,

I don't think the issue is how the skis ski with the origianl factory tune. Although my SX11 when new last year had "Grabby" tips. Actually this was the 1st time I'd had this problem ever with a brand new ski.

I think he's talking about when you tune them yourself later. Tune 'em sharp but slightly less sharp at tip particularly. I am not suggesting you dull the skis anywhere, but just slightly take a little sharpness off the edge in the tip area with a Gummi & only after you ski them and you find it necessary. Or increase the base bevel slightly in the tip. If you are experiencing grabby tips it can also be an indication of an alignment problem. (possible Canting needed)

[ November 18, 2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]
post #11 of 21
I've got Atomics too, 99-00 10.20s, and last season's R11. I understand the side bevel, but which way do you bevel the base edge? Is the 1* slope angled down towards the outside of the edge, or towards the ski base? A link to a picture would be great.
post #12 of 21
Ok, let's compromise on the deturne or not to detune issue.

There is no need to detrune the tail of the ski, unless you need to do or want to do a lot of skidding at the end of your turns.

As to the tips, it used to be anywhere from 4-6 inches on the pencil shaped skis of old.

What I do is to deturn near the tip for about 2 maybe 3 inches at the curve where the edge becomes straigh, but do so gently as was suggested in another post, by using a gummy stone.

With shorter shaped skis, detuning is much less of a factor. Detune only to avoid hooking a tip, and do so sparingly.
post #13 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by CP:
I've got Atomics too, 99-00 10.20s, and last season's R11. I understand the side bevel, but which way do you bevel the base edge? Is the 1* slope angled down towards the outside of the edge, or towards the ski base? A link to a picture would be great.


[ November 19, 2003, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Scalce ]
post #14 of 21
Anyeone still listening on this thread?

I have '03/'04 Atomic R11 170cm. Been on them about 1/2 dozen days this season so they're still on factory tune. I'm 6' 170lb.

Hard to say if it's just me or tuning but I notice I sometimes get oversteer in the tips going into turns. Usually it's more one ski than both. Don't think it's always the same ski. This of course means my stance gets wider/narrow for a bit as one ski cuts into the turn earlier/more which looks like crap.

I was thinking maybe tuning a few cm in the tips might be a good idea. Or maybe I should learn to ski better. It's so hard knowing whether it's you or the ski.

-Ken
post #15 of 21
For me, no detuning. I sharpen/polish tip to tail.
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
For the Atomics I still say to slightly detune the tips from maybe where the R:11 ends on the front top graphic and from the tail to the tip of the barcode on the rear top graphic.

I tune so sharp that too sharp a tip will catch on uneven conditions and hook the ski and too sharp a tail will make my ski stick while skiing on flats such as the top of a lift or really flat runout.

My skis are still razor sharp where the ski makes contact with the snow while skiing so you really don't miss out on anything.

I have had some Volkl guys tell me they personally detune all of their skis with sandpaper just a few mm from where the skis make contact.

It all depends on what you feel when skiing.
post #17 of 21
The Fischer RX8 skis best for me if it is kept as it was when it came out of the shrink wrap - sharp from tip to tail. When polishing edges, be careful not to mess up the edge bevels.

Jim
post #18 of 21
For me I like to keep 'em sharp from tip to tail. Rossi 9x oversize 181 cm. bevel 1 base 1 side.
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by Atomicman:
[QB]With Atomics particularly, if you find your tips have a mind of their own, add a little more base bevel to the tip maybe a light .5 degree 3"-4" from contact point back. This is if you are already tuning the entire length to a 1 degree base bevel. So this small area in the tip would still be very sharp, but would be about a 1.5 in that area.

I was having a lot of trouble with all of our Atomics being stubborn in the tip a couple of years ago. I stopped by the Race Place in Bend, OR on a race trip to Mt. Bachelor & met with Scott Holmer the owner. He invented all of "The Beast" tuning gear and has a son who I heard recently made the US ski team who is a downhiller. He said Atomics need a bit more base bevel in the tip to roll smoothly into the turn. QB]
I've experienced the same with my newly tuned R11's. I brought them back to the shop and they had to redo the base bevel. They now ski like they used to with the factory tune. Nice and smooth in and out of the turns. The Atomics require extra attention to the base bevel, especially at the shovel end due to the concave base. The base bevel apparently should be redone after the intial base grind to correct for the concave base.
post #20 of 21
I don't detune. Nor do the wife and kids. If you are hooking up sporadically, and more to the one side than the other, your skis may not be flat to the snow. In short, perhaps getting an alignment would be beneficial?
post #21 of 21
You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish
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