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Whistler/Blackcomb for sale

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Ok this is not a rumor. This was told at many department meeting here this week. Whistler/blackcomb, mtn operations is for sale along with Tremblants.

ITW is hurting financially and the sale of these two properties could get them out of it.

Again this is not a rumor.
post #2 of 28
Aren't these pretty much Intrawest's two prize properties though (maybe not Tremblant all the way, but Whistler)?

-Craig
post #3 of 28
Let's see - my IRA's, my house equity, and my coin collection - yup: I'm in!

Seriously, with the Olympics upcoming to Whistler, it may be that IW sees the oppotunity to cash-out.

I've been told that the W/B village is essentially built-out. Most wealth from ski areas is mined from real estate development. That party's over.

For IW, remaining cash-flow from lift tickets and rentals may no longer justify the capital commitment.

Every business owner needs an exit strategy. Perhaps for IW, this is it!
post #4 of 28
Intrawest has already sold an 80% interest in the village properties, so now it looks like they are getting out some more capital to go elsewhere and turn dirt into bricks and mortar. For a company that's a resort developer and not really a skiing company, it's not a bad strategy.

This article has some other good info:
http://www.tahoe-world.com/article/2...News/103090008
post #5 of 28
Is there any evidence to support this, other than hearsay? I don't see any problems with their financial reports or credit rating...could you be more specific as to their finanical woes?
post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Strato

1. Seriously, with the Olympics upcoming to Whistler, it may be that IW sees the oppotunity to cash-out.

2. I've been told that the W/B village is essentially built-out. Most wealth from ski areas is mined from real estate development. That party's over.
1. What's the connection?

2. I don't know the term "built-out", but don't the sky-high real estate prices in and around Whistler mean there is a lot of demand to live there?
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebraun
Is there any evidence to support this, other than hearsay? I don't see any problems with their financial reports or credit rating...could you be more specific as to their finanical woes?
A massive hit on cash flow this winter that should show up in financials soon but wouldn't have made it to any quarterly reports yet.

Part of me is surprised, part isn't. Yes build out is near or reached so no more big pay days on developments. OTOH W/B gives the status that sells development everywhere else. Maybe they think they are bigger than that now.

They are also moving more and more into the game of golf which is really a game of demographics to them.
post #8 of 28
I'll believe it when I see it in print. Intrawest's stock was just UPDGRADED in the last month....if a cash crunch was pending, the analysts take all that into consideration.
post #9 of 28

Keep this in mind

Keep this former thread started by TJBrk in mind:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...2&page=1&pp=30
post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool
1. What's the connection?

2. I don't know the term "built-out", but don't the sky-high real estate prices in and around Whistler mean there is a lot of demand to live there?
1. The connection is that if the developer has maximized it's return and returns are now diminishing, the time to cash out could be when the resort's profile is raised and glamour for the area is at it's peak.

2. Developers do not benefit from high resale values on existing property either directly through their subsequent sale or indirectly in terms of making continuing development look like attractive investment if there *is* no more continuing development. IE, "built out."

It could indeed be that Intrawest's ongoing business model is to develop a resort to the point where gains fall below a certain point, cash in their chips and move on to the next property. This strategy in and of itself in *no way* implies any sort of business misfortune whatever. It would be just one logical way to churn their capitol for maximum return.

None of the preceding should be taken as an endorsement of the RUMOR.
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebraun
if a cash crunch was pending, the analysts take all that into consideration.
For exceptions to this rule I can only think of, BreX, Cartaway, Northern Telecom, Worldcom, Tyco, Enron, AOL but I'm sure there are lots more. I'm not saying it is all doom and gloom nor they are about to file for protection. However there has been a hit and it will have an effect (debatable how much). I don't even slightly trust stock analysts and there has been lots in the industry to warrant that mistrust.
post #12 of 28
Those (most) are examples of fraud and deception, and for every one there are thousands of companies which report accurate results to their stockholders.

My point was simply that when valuing any stock, if sales are higher or lower than anticipated, analyst price targets are adjusted accordingly (before quarter end...). So I would think that the bad year W/B has been having has already been priced into the stock targets (which have been rising).

If you don't trust the market, then none of this is relevant.

If you do, then this would be indicative of where the company stands financially. Personally, I trust what I read in the WSJ more than speculation on the internet.

The main reason for my skepticism is that nobody has provided any evidence other than the fact that they have had a bad season and rumors.

If someone posted an article from a reputable source, or some other type of evidence, then I may be more convinced. OTOH, resorts sell all the time, so its certainly not out of the question.
post #13 of 28
It's not so much the market I don't trust it's the analysts working for comission based brokerage firms. A good friend runs the first internet booking company there. He has a good feel for occupancies and cancellations as well as just booking volume. It's not the final word but it is a strong indicator.

The snow is just part of it, the just as big a hit is the weakened US$ that greatly affected the value of W/B to their largest market. This of course on the heels of SARS and 9/11 before that. The numbers have been way down and the hit has been huge. Sounds like Tremblant took a licking as well.

On the plus side Blue Mountain which is new for them in Ontario has been doing great. Mammoth had to of rocked and Copper as well. A new casino and golf resort in Las Vegas should have been immune to snow issues.

The hit is there, the question is how well have other properties done and how much does their biggest cash generator carry the show. Time will tell but I believe there will be much more heard of some suffering before it gets rosy again.
post #14 of 28
I don't know the law in Canada, but can an American company own a buisness there? If so, i put my money on Vail.
post #15 of 28
and mad cow and west nile, and a changing dollar from 5 years ago all helped too
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoetr
I don't know the law in Canada, but can an American company own a buisness there? If so, i put my money on Vail.
I doubt it. Earlier in the year, Vail Resorts stock was fluctuating based on speculation of their own sale.
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoetr
I don't know the law in Canada, but can an American company own a buisness there? If so, i put my money on Vail.
Yes, a US company can own a business in Canada. In fact, I work for a company that has been bought by an American organization.

Anyway, I think Intrawest has an eye on the demographic shift (remember those aging baby boomers) and skiing is probably not the ideal business for the next 20 or so years. So who knows, maybe they are looking to unload some assets. :
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw
It could indeed be that Intrawest's ongoing business model is to develop a resort to the point where gains fall below a certain point, cash in their chips and move on to the next property. This strategy in and of itself in *no way* implies any sort of business misfortune whatever. It would be just one logical way to churn their capitol for maximum return.
Well-stated! This rumor, if it's true, doesn't necessarily imply that anything's wrong with IW's financial position (although, this may not have been their best year).

Rather, it's more likely a reflection of strategy. As others have stated, IW is a developer. Once the development is done, money from real estate re-sale does nothing to enrich IW.

Therefore, if the resort's built-out (which I've read it essentially is), there's more cash to be reaped in replicating the IW model elsewhere. That capital will generate far more value in a new-growth scenerio.

I also agree with the point regarding the US dollar, which has sunk like a stone over the past 30 months. Such devaluation depresses demand from the US market, which obviously affects sales and cash-flow.
post #19 of 28
Thanks for the explanation, jstraw.
___________

Quote:
Originally Posted by L7
It's not so much the market I don't trust it's the analysts working for comission based brokerage firms.


*THE CROWD ROARS IN AGREEMENT!*





______
post #20 of 28
This is slightly old, but I expect things just got worse from start Feb to now -- US$ and weather. As JStraw points out, best time to ditch something is when it's at or near pumped dry. Too bad they're not US-based, 'cua their reports would have loads more details in them.
D


Intrawest Issues FY 2005 Earnings Outlook Below Analysts' Estimates-Conference Call
February 08, 2005
Intrawest announced that it expects fiscal 2005 EBITDA of $230-$240 million with earnings before the after-tax cost of the bond redemption of approximately $1.20 a share, plus or minus a few cents. After expensing the call premium and other costs to redeem bonds, the Company expects full year earnings of $0.63-0.73 per share. According to Reuters Estimates, analysts expected the Company to earn $1.51 per share in the same period.
post #21 of 28
I just went to IW's website, and the message from the CEO and majority owner, Joe Houssain, mentioned nothing about the sale of W/B and Tremblent.

It did, however, emphasize that they were moving strategically from a capital-based operation to an expertise-based operation (i.e. selling their development services to emerging resorts).

If so, this approach seems consistent with the "rumor" stated above. I sent a specific question to IW management on this matter. We'll see if they respond.
post #22 of 28
In the last Q reports the only multi ski resort company that reported a profit was Vail resorts. Intrawest, for the first time in awhile, reported a loss. Vail is the largest summer resort owner(Jackson Lake Lodge, Jenny Lake, JH Golf and Tennis Club) in Jackson Hole which is a positive thing for them.
post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoetr
I don't know the law in Canada, but can an American company own a buisness there? If so, i put my money on Vail.
Mueller family
post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzn44
Mueller family
I don't believe the Muellers(Triple Peaks LLC) own any properties in Canada.
post #25 of 28
True, but if it's for sale.....
post #26 of 28
As several other posters have noted Whistler is not currently for sale. The original poster IMHO misunderstand or was misinformed regarding the recent Intrawest transaction which has been widely reported.

Back to the Meullers...with the fight continuing over their proposed expansion at Sunapee and their mamouth task ahead in improving the recently purchased CB...I think it would be fair to say that their plate is plenty full.

But ya never know, this is a crazy biz...stranger things have happened..
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHrefugee
As several other posters have noted Whistler is not currently for sale. The original poster IMHO misunderstand or was misinformed regarding the recent Intrawest transaction which has been widely reported.

Back to the Meullers...with the fight continuing over their proposed expansion at Sunapee and their mamouth task ahead in improving the recently purchased CB...I think it would be fair to say that their plate is plenty full.

But ya never know, this is a crazy biz...stranger things have happened..
Maybe, but the word is, at least from what I have heard is they are looking for one more ski area in the West. If that includes Canada I have no idea.
post #28 of 28
They probably are looking forward and have interest in owning another resort. Their attempt to purchase Steamboat turned into a fiasco with them spending alot of time and money for nothing. They probably have a dart board in their office with ASC on it. My point was I don't think they would be buying Whistler since it is not for sale.
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