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Examples of High C turns - Page 7

post #181 of 185
I think you guys have the genesis of a new thread: Concepts or movements? I'm doing it.
post #182 of 185
Originally Posted by Pierre
I am saying he can't and represent PSIA correctly. He can and represent PMTS correctly since he is comparing movements.
I understand your point.

Do you think that most of the PMTS folks who post here understand and agree with your point in that regard?
post #183 of 185
Originally Posted by Coach13
I understand your point.

Do you think that most of the PMTS folks who post here understand and agree with your point in that regard?
No, I think PSIA is very difficult to fully understand and those that compare PMTS to PSIA on a movements basis never understood PSIA.

I think that both systems have many contrasts. There are many instances of each system having opposite advantages and disadvantages. I therefore believe that any instructor who understands both systems and can utilize the best of both systems, is a far better instructor overall. In my opinion they don't buck each other in my mind, they compliment each other.
post #184 of 185
Right on
post #185 of 185

Got a call from Rusty Guy today

He wanted to know if I was dead.

Nope. Just shifted to bike riding and grandson playing with.

Fascinating give and take.

Some of this is repeatitive - from a posting historical perspective, but I received very compatible instruction from some very fine PSIA coaches and PMTS coaches. (some in fact inhabit the same body at the same time)

The most refreshing thing to me as a student and what spelled out the difference between what I felt was compatible instruction (both wanted me to do exactly the same movements) was in PMTS I got an accurate how to. In PSIA more often than not I got the goal described with no way to get there.

A simple example is "ski with parallel shins" = PSIA vs "pull the inside foot back" = PMTS and now I've added my own - "shuffle my about to be new inside foot back as the transition is occuring then keep it back". For me, these cues, in personal increasing order of relevance, cured my fore/aft balance issues. If I did what PMTS normally says, pull that inside foot back, for me, it was already too late. I had to move that pull back to the transition. Then it all clicked.

Or John Clendenon that has his external cues that are direct and easy to follow except his last one "commit to the turn". To me, as a student, that is being told that because I didn't used to "commit to the turn" doesn't tell me how to "commit to the turn". Ends up for me I observed what John was doing that I was not and I internally boiled it down to 3 specific movements I was not doing. Tell me the 3 things to do that I wasn't and it = the result - commit to the turn.

So, you may be on to something Nolo. PSIA doesn't try to be a primary movements way of instructing but focuses more on concepts. They leave it to the instructor to come up with how to move the student to better movement patterns. In this way an instructor that is PSIA certified and teaching can pull out of either camp drills and mental cues that they can share with the student to help them progress.

I've told Diana at the last all mountain camp I attended that it would great in the new PMTS instructor manual to have an appendix of the myrid of drills cues and ways of describing things that the best of their teachers use. This material dwarfs the instructor manual and has overlaps like crazy with what the best PSIA teachers have students do.

Caveat - John Clendenon's pivot slip drill is taught and executed with no rotary input. So the drill may look the same or called the same, but some of the actual movement patterns to do the drill can be polar oppisites.

Yet, many drills are indeed the same, movement wise and intent wise. PMTS is not a linear path or progression at all. This is one of the biggest misunderstandings about it. The students own skiing determines what is worked on next and that can follow any order of development.

On a slightly different subject now that I've established that for me personally I get gain from either camp. (or from people in both camps (Hi Roger))

There is a functional difference in style that makes the high end PMTS skier like Jay look different than most skiers PSIA, Hack or otherwise coming down the hill.

I've always been fascinated by that look and wondered what is the greatest thing that makes it look different.

Two words that probably should be a whole different thread that sum the biggest contributor to that different look:

Stance Foot

Thanks for calling Rusty. We will ski again for sure.

In contemplating whether to snag a weekend to fly out and ski like I've done in the past - there has been this new competition:


(my grandson)

So, I've just been bike riding with the local club so I'll be in better fitness when I do ski again (and so I can play with my Grandson on weekends).

PS to Bob Barnes - pic is with Canon 1DsMKII - what a camera!
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