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Mogul and all-mountain skis

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I am planning to spend most of the next season(s) working on my mogul skiing, but I do not want to totally give up on the rest of the mountain. Thus, I am looking for a pair of good mogul skis, which can also work as all-mountain ski.

From some reviews and based on the shape (99-66-87) I have an impression that Rossi Mogul would work.

On the other hand, from what I have read on this forum it does not make sence to buy a mogul-oriented ski unless you are a mogul competitor.
Almost any skis will work in the bumps unless they are not too stiff or long. Then I wonder what is the criteria for being 'too stiff'.

Any opinion, experience, siggestions?

Thanks
post #2 of 24
altu,
Welcome on board!

I enjoy skiing moguls (although not very well). I'm skiing on K2 Axis X Pros, and the nearest thing to a weakness in them is in the moguls. They are too stiff (for me) for days of mogul skiing. Fine for a couple of runs, but very tiring after that. But when I balance that with how they handle for me on the rest of the mountain, I'm prepared to live with that.

What I mean is, yes, in my opinion some skis are too stiff for extensive mogul skiing. Go shorter & softer, that will make it easier.

S
post #3 of 24
A midfat with a sidecut radius greater than 22 meters should work great. Avoid metal for durability.
On the other hand, I just bought Rossi T-Power 9s
primarily because of how well they bump.
But I have spent the most time in the bumps on my Volant Chubbs. So go figure..
post #4 of 24
This all comes down to how you want to ski the bumps. If you want to ski the ziperline, true bump skiis are far better than any midfat or carving/all mountain ski. If you meerly want to make the occasional run in the bumps then really any ski without metal in them will work just fine, although you will have to think alot more about your fore-aft balancing on a pair of non-bump skis. Also, you may have a problem with skiis that want to turn just a little to much and end up "railing out" if you choose a ski with a lot of shape.
post #5 of 24
I bought the T-Power Viper X for moguls and all mountain skiing. I prefered those over the 9S because they were softer and could be skied in a longer length (they are wickedly fun carving at high speeds). The were rated highest in the moguls for an all-mountain carving ski by both Ski and Skiing magazine. I can't say enough about this ski. If you spend 80% or more of your time skiing packed conditions consider this ski. If you plan to do a lot of off-piste skiing look at a mid-fat that does good in the moguls like the Axis X Pro & Bandit X.
post #6 of 24
. . . or the Bandit XX
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
So, the bottom line is any good non-metal slalom ski should work well enough.

Then let me reformulate the question. Will mogul skis be good enough to take an occasional run on the groomers? I realize they will not be as good as any carving tools, but still... And what exactly is going to be a problem - ice, crud, steeps?

Going back to Rossi Mogul, they seem to be shaped well enough to work as all-mountain ski sometimes. As far as I understand the difference will be "soft tips and stiff tails". What snow conditions are going to be more difficult on that kind of skis?

Thanks.
post #8 of 24
The best ski I tried this year for the type of skiing that you're talking about was the Bandit X, hands down. (and I'm not a Rossi man). The Bandit X was good on the groomed, was easy going in junk snow, and the most agreeable mid-fat I've ever skied in bumps.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by altu:
So, the bottom line is any good non-metal slalom ski should work well enough.

Then let me reformulate the question. Will mogul skis be good enough to take an occasional run on the groomers? I realize they will not be as good as any carving tools, but still... And what exactly is going to be a problem - ice, crud, steeps?

"well enough" maybe...but if you really want to focus on moguls, do yourself a big favor and get a dedicated mogul ski. i think the "new generation" (short with some sidecut) mogul skis are better all-mountain than all-mountain skis are in the bumps...if that makes any sense.

i have the 1080 moguls, which are awesome bump skis - used by the finnish freestyle team. these skisy crush the zipperline, of course. the main weaknesses you'll find in other areas are:

1. soft tips will make high-speed GS turns tricky at best. if you ski at moderate speeds, your fine. edge hold is good, even on ice.

2. lack of float in powder. they'll work in powder but you'll have to really lean back to keep the tips from diving.

summary: get mogul skis...you won't regret it.
post #10 of 24
Atomic has been making a ski that is targeted towards the park and pipe ,these skis have traditionally been good in the bumps but carve incredably well. It's comming out called the Tweak now (previously the Rodeo and the Bump before that).
post #11 of 24
I'll 2nd Macs take on the Bandit X. It's shape seems to make it a quick turning ski that works well in bumps and it is really an all mtn ski.

You could also go find an oldschool straight ski for super cheap that would be fine out of the bumps too. shape and bumps tend not to mix as well as a straighter less shaped ski. At least that is what I have found.
post #12 of 24
altu - What do you mean by work on your bump skiiing? Are you trying to compete, or do you just want to become a better mogul skier in a have fun in the bumps kind of way? If you are not already a really good bumper, a true bump ski will not help you one bit. On the other hand, just about every midfat out therewill work quite well; Bandits X, XX, Atomic 10.20, Axis X Etc... Most of the popular twins also work quite well: Volkl V, 1080(this years), Enemy, Pow Air, Etc...Vincent Dorian skied the 1080 on the WC his last season as a bumper.I really like shorty slaloms in the bumps too, especially the Mach S and Viper S. The beauty of bumps is that it is mostly you, not the skis. If I am going bumping, I usually take out my enemys, but my Axis X or Axis X Pros work just as well. Heck I have had a blast bumping on my AK launchers. These guys are on track, get a mid fat. I have skied the 1080 Mogul, and the Rossi Mogul, and unless you are competing, there are much better skis out there.
post #13 of 24
All the above posts have valid points. A lot has to do with your personal taste, skiing style, weight, ability, etc, etc. So I will just give you my experiences. I am 5'11", weight 175# and a good skier. I love the bumps and that is what I ski 80% of the time. My style in the bumps is to hit the line and just sort of bounce from one bump to the next kind of like jumping down steps. 50% or more of the time I am making a real quick carve to acheive this and often I hit the trough below pretty hard and the ski really flexes. My descent line is pretty much straight down. I used to ski on the RD Coyote softs in 195cm and absolutely loved them. But that was the old days. This year I demoed the following in the bumps:
Rossi Viper S in 167 cm
Bandit XX in ? (I think 181cm)
Dynastar Intuitiv 74 in 182 cm

The Viper's carve great and handle speed well but for me they did not work in the bumps. I think my style suits a longer ski for some reason. They also may be a little to stiff. I also had trouble keeping the ski from taking off on me. It actually gained too much speed.

The Bandit XX did real well in the bumps and were a lot of fun else where on the slopes. A great all around ski. Take into consideration I am not a speed demon. I am as fast as anyone(just about) in the bumps, but on the groomed I don't point the skis straight down the hill and go.I would have bought these skis if I had not tried the...

Intuitive 74 felt right after the first turn. fun everywhere on the mountain. And in the bumps as good as my old straight soft slalom style RD's.For me, this was the perfect ski. I highly doubt a mogul specific ski would ski better for me. Also, this ski and the bandit were great in powder.

Now if you are an east coast skier, the Viper will hold an edge much much better. But if you ski the west, they are not necessary IMO.
All of the above is my opinion. I suggest you demo a bunch of skis next year and see for yourself. That is what I did and I am very happy I did because I found MY perfect ski. Also, If you decide on the viper's mine are for sale. Used on only about 40 runs, seriously.

Dan

[ May 07, 2002, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: Dan the bump man ]
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by spinheli:
I have skied the 1080 Mogul, and the Rossi Mogul, and unless you are competing, there are much better skis out there.
the original poster asked which ski is great for bumps but can also be used on groomers occasionally. he did not ask which all-mountain ski is also good for the bumps (since he probably has an all-mountain ski already.)

with that in mind, and despite all the votes for the overhyped bandit X, the guy will be better off buying a ski dedicated for what he wants to do, i.e. ski moguls, regardless of whether he intends to compete or not. there's a reason why they make bump skis in the first place - because they are the best tool for the job .
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Everybody,
Thank you very much. The picture is more clear now. I appreciate your advice.

spinheli,
I am definitely not a competitor. As you said - I [want to become a better mogul skier in a have fun in the bumps kind of way]. But I am already a kind of addicted to skiing the bumps, and if there is a bumpy slope on the mountain, most likely I will be there all day long.

Adema,
You made my day [img]smile.gif[/img] . I secretly hoped to hear something like this. You understood exactly what I wanted. I do not care about speed too much - it's too crowded where I ski anyway, and I don't want to kill anyone and get killed myself. As for powder, we normally only dream of it here. Ice is more often the reality. So, it looks like mogul skis is a good choice.

Any other opinion?
post #16 of 24
bah

Axis X is the BEST midfat in moguls

for a mogul zipperliner who makes little tailwagger turns, a true mogul ski is best

true mogul skis suck at all-mtn

leave the Rossis to the foamcore lovers
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by altu:

Adema,
You made my day [img]smile.gif[/img] . I secretly hoped to hear something like this. You understood exactly what I wanted. I do not care about speed too much - it's too crowded where I ski anyway, and I don't want to kill anyone and get killed myself. As for powder, we normally only dream of it here. Ice is more often the reality. So, it looks like mogul skis is a good choice.
if you are already skiing and enjoying moguls, i think you'll quickly appreciate the advantages of a bump ski: better control at speed, quicker edge to edge, less crossing tips and tails, etc.

btw, you sound a lot like me...spending all day in the moguls (i spend >90% of my time there). there's just nothing better in skiing than really nailing a difficult bump run.
post #18 of 24
Listen to Spinheli, he knows his stuff.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by gonzostrike:
bah

1. Axis X is the BEST midfat in moguls

2. for a mogul zipperliner who makes little tailwagger turns, a true mogul ski is best

3. true mogul skis suck at all-mtn

4. leave the Rossis to the foamcore lovers
1. maybe. never tried em.

2. check.

3. have you tried many mogul skis? a good skier can make just about any ski work on groomers.

4. dunno...some people love the rossi's. i prefer wood though.
post #20 of 24
Don't most midfat ski today have a metal layer in them? I bought some Dyn. Powertracts last year and skied bumbs heavily on them. One ski finnaly bent at the tip but the company repaired it.
post #21 of 24
Adema - I have to take issue with the idea that a comp mogul ski is the best ski for skiing bumps. I would say that mogul skis are the best for expert bumpers to compete on, but are not a good choice for anyone else. This is kind of similar to getting a race stock GS to do club racing. Just about everyone would do better on a more forgiving ski, not a race ski for recreational skiing. Also, a true mogul ski will be great at the zipperline, and not much else. Bump skiing has changed. Shape and width have made all sorts of things possible. These days, you can take all sorts of cool lines in the bumps; the bridge line, big GS sweepers, a more carvy out of the ruts kind of line, Etc... Why get a ski that only wants to do one thing?

Also - I would not worry to much about how much metal a ski has in it. You can bend a ski that has "no metal", as it still has metal edges. Yea, you are more likely to put a bend in a "metal" ski, so what? Every major ski co will warranty a bent ski these days. They can't afford not to.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by spinheli:
Adema - I have to take issue with the idea that a comp mogul ski is the best ski for skiing bumps. I would say that mogul skis are the best for expert bumpers to compete on, but are not a good choice for anyone else. This is kind of similar to getting a race stock GS to do club racing. Just about everyone would do better on a more forgiving ski, not a race ski for recreational skiing. Also, a true mogul ski will be great at the zipperline, and not much else. Bump skiing has changed. Shape and width have made all sorts of things possible. These days, you can take all sorts of cool lines in the bumps; the bridge line, big GS sweepers, a more carvy out of the ruts kind of line, Etc... Why get a ski that only wants to do one thing?
i disagree that a bump ski will "only" do the zipperline. that's not true of the "new" bump skis, imo. although i primarily ski the zipperline, i've experimented with my 1080's enough to know that they'll handle other stuff too. they have enough side cut, and are forgiving enough, to take all sorts of lines through the bumps.

i dunno...i love my mogul skis but maybe they're just not for everyone. whatever works for you.
post #23 of 24
Spinheli,
With all due respect, I have to disagree with you on your statement that unless you are an expert a bump ski won't help. While it is thrue that jumping on a bump ski won't automaticaly allow you to rip the zipperline like a pro, the specific flex of a bump ski makes it so much more forgiving in the moguls. The flex is actually designed to absorb much of the impact of the mogul so that the skier has an easier time staying centered over the ski, allowing the skier to expend more effort on the other aspects of bump skiing. You used the anolagy of a club racer buying a race stock ski, but with moguls it seems to be the other way around, most skiis are to STIFF for mogul comps, meaning they are unforgiving, so a competition bump ski has to be made less stiff and in turn be more forgiving, which should actually make it a better bump ski for lesser skilled skiers.
p.s. All this makes sense to me, but I apologize if I confused you!
post #24 of 24
I have a different opinion than some of those above. I skied T-Power Vipers and T-Power 9Ss last year (both 167 cms). The Vipers were fine in the bumps and all over the mountain in the east, but not so good in soft western crude. The 9Ss were too intense for me even on flat hardpack. You need to be really centered to ski that ski in bumps. When I wanted to learn bumps a few years ago, I got a pair of Volkl Ultracarvers. They were narrow, soft and had a lot of shape. They were too soft to hold on ice, too narrow to float in powder, and too unstable at high speeds, but they worked fine in moguls.
I think the answer is get a soft, short slalom shape ski like a T-Power Cobra (which was like a Viper but one step softer). Avoid metal as eastern bumps will always bend a metal ski, and avoid too much of a lifter. Or buy my Vipers, which are a little softened up by now, and I'll give you a free private mogul lesson.
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