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360's - Page 2

post #31 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider
can someone describe the POP?
The incline of the jump will compress your body a tiny bit, there will be a little extra pressure on your bent knees. It will be greatest at the end of the jump (unless it's a huge flat jump).
As you ride into the jump feel that pressure and right at the max of it, at the end of the jump push down with your legs - or think of it as trying to hop up, two-footed, onto a small stair. The pop gives you a little float. Without this you are like a car going off a bridge.
But don't forget: you don't use much energy to do this - the force used should be about the same as jumping from the street up to the curb, not jumping up three stairs. Your knees bend only a little, minimal arm movement.
Practice by jumping up from street to curb, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns
Never have done one , too afraid to try. Watched my neighbor's boy really land hard on his chest getting only half way around that reinforced to me they are as hard to execute as they look. I'd love to do one before I croke!
Big mistake to land on a flat-ish landing. A steep landing makes for minimized impact. Are you surre you mean 360? In it the skier's skis remain horizontal. Judging by the position of this kid's crash I think you are thinking of a vertical 360 degree movement. We are talking about a horizontal 360 degree movement.
He did half a 360 and landed on his chest?...I just don't see how that's possible.:
post #32 of 60
thanks defiantely will try this year.
post #33 of 60
+ 1

Great thread.

Phil, you made that seem sooooo smooth and effortless.
I will do it before my next birthday in April.
post #34 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by fressen
Welcome to the new school. All of the kiddies are doing them. They are actually quite easy. Best done with a twin tip or mild twin tip but not necessary. I do them on my Monster 85's.
Haha! Thanks - I'm really looking forward to learning to land backward - being able to do that really increases possibilties. If you have your balance you could land almost anything - if you're 15 degrees over-rotated on a 360 you only need to spin another 165 degrees - not 345!
What a time to be alive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin
It seems to me a contradiction of physics to say that you should start spinning only after you leave the ground. It is impossible to generate angular momentum in midair. You have to start spinning before you leave the ground.
The end of the pop is the start of the spin. The push with the legs (along with arm motion) is the start of what will be the spin. Some beginners will spin early - almost as if they're trying to get the spin part of the jump over with as fast as possible...or more likely: reduce the amount of time in-air with their back to the landing.
post #35 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool
He did half a 360 and landed on his chest?...I just don't see how that's possible.:
If he was corked out (i.e. leaning backwards on takeoff, and not popping straight up) a 180 will put him on his chest with his head closer to the top of the jump.
post #36 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
If you look frame by frame in my video, you see actually how sloppy I am in the air, infact I hit my tips in the lip when I am 180 deg. Bt the launch and landing are fine.
Phil, does your left arm always end up far behind the twist at it does in this frame? If so, I can't help but wonder whether the pole plant is the cause.
post #37 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren
Phil, does your left arm always end up far behind the twist at it does in this frame? If so, I can't help but wonder whether the pole plant is the cause.
I am sure it does, my hand comes around last. My head and skis come around faster than my (fat) middle.
post #38 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by fressen
Welcome to the new school. All of the kiddies are doing them. They are actually quite easy. Best done with a twin tip or mild twin tip but not necessary. I do them on my Monster 85's.
Well, I can see that they'd be easy but I think a 360 is easy enough. A 540 I can see, but what's the point of a 180? (Although it would be super-cool to do one over Chad's or something huge like that. )
You don't need a jump for a 180, either - I've never jumped backward but I've skied backward for years, and any decent skier should be able to jump straight off the snow and do a 180.
BTW - I can't wait to join the newschool in the park! There are twin-tips in my future...twin-tips and air, lots of air...
post #39 of 60

Ouch

I tried throwing them for the first time ever today. I promised myself I'd throw one before I turn 42 next week. Well, at least I tried to throw one: it was slushy so I figured the soft landing would be a trade off for the edge catching snow.

Attempt 1

Threw a perfect 180 and fortunately was on my twin tip Seth Pistols which were fine in the slush going backwards. Turned around to ski foward, caught an edge, and WHAM!

Attempt 2

Threw a pefect 270. But landing sideways was not intended. WHAM!
Came out of one ski, hit the side of my head on the ground (thank you Giro Fuse helmet), re-banged my wrist (which I hurt yesterday when I overshot the landing of park kicker jump--another story).

That kind of hurt so I skied down and spend the rest of the day hitting bump runs, the Mt Rose Chutes, and straight jumps.

post #40 of 60
Jim,

You were close. A 270 off of a spine and you would have been able to land it, it would have been a rewarding step.

Keep trying...never...never give up.
post #41 of 60
I can't give any tips it's all in my system...but only this when you're going for it alway have the confidence. DONOT hesitate. I can never complete the whole spin if I'm unsure pf myself before the jump even now. I always landed 270+/- or backward and either hurt myself or just look stupid(which is ok...looking stipid only not the hurt part) ...Practice practice it's VERY EASY That jump in the video isn't really a real jump it's almost on the surface...if the surface have bumps and I have enough speed I can do that same jump OVER AND OVER until I get dizzy...go for BIG air!! who cares you'll end up in the hospital at the end of the day with broken gear and body parts...................It won't be me this time.........joke wish you luck!
post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctown
That jump in the video isn't really a real jump it's almost on the surface...
I believe you're referring to the "weed-wacker" (or low elevation) style of spinning. I used to give my friends flak for spinning like that, until they came back and said "Well when you grow up skiing in PA with nothing to jump off of, that's what happens!"

In the end, however, a spin is a spin. The only difference between Phil's spin and a monster 3 spun off a 50 foot table is timing. I've also found that the bigger the jump, the more helpful the new-school style is, because you can use not only your arms but also your legs to control the speed of your rotation (i.e. tighten up to spin faster or open up earlier to slow the spin).
post #43 of 60
I must try this next season. Time to get some life insurance. And new skis.
post #44 of 60
I made a new years resolution to complete a 360 successfully.
The video ssh posted was a bit reassuring and helpful because it made it clear that I don't have to get more air to accomplish this.
I had some trouble opening the link but got it after some work.
Hope this link works
post #45 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
I made a new years resolution to complete a 360 successfully.
The video ssh posted was a bit reassuring and helpful because it made it clear that I don't have to get more air to accomplish this.
I had some trouble opening the link but got it after some work.
Hope this link works
Link works, looks real easy .
post #46 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
I made a new years resolution to complete a 360 successfully.
The video ssh posted was a bit reassuring and helpful because it made it clear that I don't have to get more air to accomplish this.
I had some trouble opening the link but got it after some work.
Hope this link works
Don't worry you'll get it just fine, all rotation is in the head. Also the smaller the air you get the more you really have to speed up the rotation. If you have a half pipe try learning at the very end were the wall is only a foot or two high, the benefit of this method is that when you land on the top of the wall all of your speed is gone thus if you only get a 250 you are still on your feet.

I don't know if this has been mentioned but right before I takeoff I get my whole body quiet or set no unnecessary movement. Ollie and get that head moving and the rest will just sort of happen.

Good luck, you'll get it soon
post #47 of 60

little bit more

I'm glad this thread was brought up again. I just started to focus on skiing this year. Grew up skiing then switcehd to snowboarding, now I'm back. Decided to try a 360, I could do one on a snowboard but not all that well. My first attempt in the park at Copper I made it about 270 and slid out. Second attempt landed it and have only fallen once (knock on wood) since mainly because it was the end of the day and i was tired. Probably done around ten since then but never on the larger jumps. My suggestion to anyone trying a 3 is to just kinda huck your arms and keep looking for your landing. Hesitation will cause you not to make the rotation but if you tell yourself no matter what you you do that you wont stop at 180, you will naturally twist those skis around and finish the turn.
Now I would really like to add an iron cross into the 3. Any suggestions other than just going for it. I've been told to have a solid 3 down before trying it and feel confident enough to give it a try. I really think I need to just make sure I am comfortable going high enough and just hope I don't kick one of my skis off if they colide. Any tips would be great, thanks.
post #48 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewski180 View Post
I'm glad this thread was brought up again. I just started to focus on skiing this year. Grew up skiing then switcehd to snowboarding, now I'm back. Decided to try a 360, I could do one on a snowboard but not all that well. My first attempt in the park at Copper I made it about 270 and slid out. Second attempt landed it and have only fallen once (knock on wood) since mainly because it was the end of the day and i was tired. Probably done around ten since then but never on the larger jumps. My suggestion to anyone trying a 3 is to just kinda huck your arms and keep looking for your landing. Hesitation will cause you not to make the rotation but if you tell yourself no matter what you you do that you wont stop at 180, you will naturally twist those skis around and finish the turn.
Now I would really like to add an iron cross into the 3. Any suggestions other than just going for it. I've been told to have a solid 3 down before trying it and feel confident enough to give it a try. I really think I need to just make sure I am comfortable going high enough and just hope I don't kick one of my skis off if they colide. Any tips would be great, thanks.
Mentioned earlier, a Helicopter (I still won't call them 3's or 360's ) is a flat spin and you really don't need a lot of height Once you add the "iron cross" that changes. Now you need a jump that is more of a "kicker" that will pop you up in the air.
post #49 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
I made a new years resolution to complete a 360 successfully.
The video ssh posted was a bit reassuring and helpful because it made it clear that I don't have to get more air to accomplish this.
I had some trouble opening the link but got it after some work.
Hope this link works
if you can spin fast enough you can 360 right off the ground, its not to graceful but it can be done pretty easily.

I guess being from PA I learned to spin like bushwacker.
post #50 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
... a Helicopter (I still won't call them 3's or 360's )
a 360's the same thing as a helicopter

Phil, can you still do that trick?
post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Mentioned earlier, a Helicopter (I still won't call them 3's or 360's ) is a flat spin and you really don't need a lot of height Once you add the "iron cross" that changes. Now you need a jump that is more of a "kicker" that will pop you up in the air.
Actually, in the pure "old skool" sense you didn't need any height at all for a "360". In 1970 a "360" was a spin on and touching the snow at all times.
post #52 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
a 360's the same thing as a helicopter

Phil, can you still do that trick?
I vow to do at least one a season, I have for the past 27 years...Still need to do one for this season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
Actually, in the pure "old skool" sense you didn't need any height at all for a "360". In 1970 a "360" was a spin on and touching the snow at all times.
yup. a Heli was on the air.
post #53 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
I vow to do at least one a season, I have for the past 27 years...Still need to do one for this season.

yup. a Heli was on the air.
I saw the video of it, so I can attest to it. Hope we see the spectacular leaner meaner 08 Heli soon!:
post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
I vow to do at least one a season, I have for the past 27 years...Still need to do one for this season.

yup. a Heli was on the air.
I'm with ya for as long as I can (i.e. until I'm 60?).: But, someone's gotta dare me to do it these days. I won't do it just skiing by myself with nobody else egging me on.
post #55 of 60
I've been looking for a good video to show my kids how to throw a 360. The following vid is the best I've found so far and includes some examples of what the falls might look like when learning. Its a quicktime vid so its easy to go frame by frame using the forward/back arrows on the keyboard.

http://www.nelsoncarmichael.com/marabou2.html
post #56 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
I saw the video of it, so I can attest to it. Hope we see the spectacular leaner meaner 08 Heli soon!:
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
I'm with ya for as long as I can (i.e. until I'm 60?).: But, someone's gotta dare me to do it these days. I won't do it just skiing by myself with nobody else egging me on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I've been looking for a good video to show my kids how to throw a 360. The following vid is the best I've found so far and includes some examples of what the falls might look like when learning. Its a quicktime vid so its easy to go frame by frame using the forward/back arrows on the keyboard.

http://www.nelsoncarmichael.com/marabou2.html
28 years now, done here at Steamboat. Video later.
post #57 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
a 360's the same thing as a helicopter

Phil, can you still do that trick?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
28 years now, done here at Steamboat. Video later.
post #58 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

The body follows the head. You can preload the rotation as you aproach the lip. I plant my left pole on the lip and use that for my start. As I turn the head, I will look for the landing. SSH has a video of me doing one, maybe he can host it somewhere.

I find that a floater or lip is easier to start off of than a kicker. If you are in a Terrain park, a spine is good too. Take all of this as a grain of salt from an old fart (41) who still does them. I am sure the nu skoolers have much better ways.

Like this.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

Hey, what a fantastic weekend, gang! The skiing, the weather, the snow, and of course, the people couldn't have been better or more fun. I miss you all already!

 

I'll try to get a few more photos up when I get a chance, but for now, here's Philpug's helicopter off Cornice Run:

 

Phil_heli montage 3fps sm crbb.jpg

 

More snow in the forecast for tomorrow!

 

Best regards,

Bob


 

post #59 of 60

Spinning 3s is all about commitment, once you go for it, make sure you GO for it! Seeing some of my friends try to learn, what tends to happen is once you get turned backwards its pretty easy to start freaking out and stop spinning, which will probably end up with a landing at about 270, which isnt very much fun. Fact is, 360s are really easy, but also really scary if you havent done them before.

 

Definitely best to start by picking an easy groomer and hopping some little 180s. Or if you can jump/spin hard enough, try hopping some 3s. That helped my confidence big time when i was learning to spin, just knowing in my own head that its not so difficult to get all the way around. Once youre happy hopping around on the groomers, pick a day when youre feeling brave and give it a shot off a small jump, and then youre on your way.

post #60 of 60

Here is a great video...

 

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