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Weight Training

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Anybody have any recommendations for weight training for the legs? I have started to do presses and hamstring curls with light weights and high reps in addition to my normal cardio (stadium steps, stairmaster & light biking).

Just wondering if anybody had a program they are on or could refer me to?

Thanks,

Kaj
post #2 of 35
From what I've read, most articles recommend squats as the cornerstone of leg strengthening. The motion is similar to leg presses but not at all redundant and I feel the difference.
post #3 of 35
In addition to the aforementioned...I like to do 'walking lunges' carrying 50lbs
post #4 of 35
SQUATS!

Primarily works: quads, hams, glutes, hip flexors, lower back, and most stabilizers (ankles, knees, hips, core).
Additionally it taxes/activates the nervous system like nothing else.

If you do ONE thing - this is it. Especially for skiing.
post #5 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shen
In addition to the aforementioned...I like to do 'walking lunges' carrying 50lbs

Yep & try recovering forward from forward lunge & another time recover back from forward lunge & another time lunge backwards.... & lunge to dynadisc/bosu & from dynadisc/bosu &.....
post #6 of 35
Squats
Dead Lift - work hip flexors, lower back, and all important core more than squats.
Leg curl - best defense against ACL injury
"Jerk" portion of the clean & jerk - total body workout (squat with a military press)
Pistols - one legged "dips" (no weight as fast as possible)
Box Jumps - side to side & step up's
Core, core, core

Lifting alone makes strong but dumb muscle. You should try to incorporate an exercise after lifting to "retrain" the muscle for sport specific purposes (e.g. Skiing, cycling, etc). Box jumps, Skier's Edge machine, or some other skiing specifc plyometric exercise ...
post #7 of 35
Viking,

What is your goal?
post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodee
Squats
Dead Lift - work hip flexors, lower back, and all important core more than squats.
Leg curl - best defense against ACL injury
"Jerk" portion of the clean & jerk - total body workout (squat with a military press)
Pistols - one legged "dips" (no weight as fast as possible)
Box Jumps - side to side & step up's
Core, core, core

Lifting alone makes strong but dumb muscle. You should try to incorporate an exercise after lifting to "retrain" the muscle for sport specific purposes (e.g. Skiing, cycling, etc). Box jumps, Skier's Edge machine, or some other skiing specifc plyometric exercise ...
Excellent advice, as well as disskis!
Also, I hope you never end up with an injury that puts you on crutches, but if this happens, you'll be really, really happy if you are accustomned to doing one legged squats.

One more thing to think about: When Jeff Bergeron came to studio over the summer, he watched me perform squats on the Bosu. He commented that the squat position was not really the same as a skier's tuck. Since then, I've practiced going into a tuck position, with a rounded low back, and doing small range flexion/extension movements.

Also, while an extremely controversial subject, many sports medicine experts believe that the leg extension machine can make you more susceptible to ACL injury. Stick with closed chain leg presses and squats.
post #9 of 35
Also, try the Probodx routines: http://www.probodx.com/
post #10 of 35
Check out the "Eccentron"
post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcat
Also, try the Probodx routines: http://www.probodx.com/
Awesome stuff!
post #12 of 35
kaj

Sumo squats - standing on two benches - dumbell suspended between legs. I use about 70 lbs. Squats basically. Do'em right!

core - core - core!
post #13 of 35
I've really enjoyed the excercises in here:

http://www.warriorforce.com/warriorfitness.html

The idea of doing 100-200 squats killed me at first. But now I'm up to 250! My skiing has gotten much better this season, I am stronger and have more endurance.

It costs a few dollars to download the info in PDF files or get it in a notebook.

For another review look here: http://sfuk.tripod.com/reviews/enamait_warrior1.html

Might take a bit to get past the tough guy talk, but it is down to earth excellent advice.

JonnyMo
post #14 of 35
Now that I am older and I have more training injuries, I don't like weights, particularly for the legs. Pre ski season, I do a power routine, which includes boxing two days per week, swimming one or two days per week, and three days of floor cardio, strength training, martial arts, plyometrics, and abs (this is a general workout, which lets me focus on different aspects each of the three days).

Swimming - 1 hour alternating between crawl and breast strokes.

Boxing - I try for two hours but I really don't have the time and must settle for 1.5 hours.

General Workout - 1 hour with 5 min stretching, 5 min of warm-up power yoga, 45 min of floor cardio work, strength training, five minutes of abs and cool down. This workout is cut into three or four units, for example I might do one round of various floor exercises (jumping jacks, running in place, cross hops, running lunges, etc. followed by 100 squats (I do Hindu squats), 60 full body pushups (Hindu pushups or "flyby" pushups). The next unit will be similar but will use different floor exercises and different pushups (I might do handstand pushups or super-wide hand placement or over the head hand placement or hand over hand placement). I usually don't change the squats but I sometimes do curtsey squats. But I never use weights with squats, it doesn't get you anywhere and with skiing you need the endurance more than the weight. I will go through one of two more permutations of this to finish the workout.

At least one day per week I will abbreviate the General Workout and focus on martial arts work - mostly kicking with only a little punching (boxing is all punching and no kicking so this balances me out and is my core focus day). I air kick (really form kicking but good for the core as well) and kick against a heavy bag (this is for strength and core endurance).

I work arm plyometrics into my Boxing workouts usually using plyometric pushups (pushup to clap, or the like) as well as medicine ball work.

I work leg plyo's on General workout days and I will substitute various leaping techniques for one or more of the squats. I may substitute 25 explosive two-leg leaps and 25 side to side one leg hops and 25 standing one leg hops for distance for 100 squats.

The benefit is few training injuries and much more strength and endurance while skiing as compared to when I used weight training as my primary strength training mechanism. Most days have both strength and cardio components so I get good benefits and the workouts are quite varied so I don't get bored. My core gets worked and the fighting arts are a good brain workout as well, well, till some big palooka connects with the brain bucket. But then you sleep really well.


I hope this was helpful.

Mark
post #15 of 35
If you work your quads, as in Sumo squats - work your hamstrings as well. The burn often felt in the quads while skiing does not mean that the hamstrings are less important!
post #16 of 35
I'm Yet another poster recommending Squats. Additional advice- Make sure you're doing free-weight squats for maximum athletic benefits. Smith Machine/Pulley machine or any machine squats nullify half the benefits of the exercise.

Truthfully, a good free-weight squat rack, 45 lbs straight bar and appropiate plates is still the gold standard. Thrown in dead lifts, and a set of clean, jerk and presses you'll develop power and balance and raw strength that'll amaze you. really.

I also like to throw in 100 jump rope skips in between sets while working out-gives a light plyometric boost to my work out and just kind of ramps me up.
post #17 of 35
Overhead Squats-this thread has more than you want to know.
post #18 of 35
The intensity of traditional strength training with machines or free weights can be increased three ways:

- By using a slightly heavier weight for the same number of repetitions or by drastically increasing the weight and performing fewer repetitions;
- By resting for less time between sets (this is very common in programs dedicated to increasing lean muscle mass); or
- By performing repetitions more slowly, thereby maintaining muscle tension for longer (this is popular among bodybuilders as a method of increasing muscle tension which promotes muscular growth).

The trainer I worked out with strongly recommended the 3rd -- it uses the muscle completely, helping you get to fatigue more quickly and eliminating the need for many sets. Typically I'd two two sets in which I'd use a four-count to raise, hold and lower the weight.

On a separate note, when you're ready to move from pure muscle strengthening to endurance -- integrate super sets. Muscles need to rest between sets, but instead of sitting idly you do an alternating exercise in the rest period. Example: weighted squats (12 reps) and box jumps (12 reps).
post #19 of 35
BTW - found this site while thinking on this subject - I liked it because it offers a lot of basic information

http://www.answers.com/topic/weight-training
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by klkaye
BTW - found this site while thinking on this subject -
KLK, ya planning to get huge for next season?
post #21 of 35
Traditional weight training is useless for skiing. Neither Maier nor Miller do any. Maier rides the bike, Miller works on eccentric contraction. That's the kind of contraction one uses while skiing.
post #22 of 35
Comprex! LOL - how did you find that pic of my new BF??!!??

Are you suggesting that I get all pumped up, some cool tats and pierce my nipples like that guy?

post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biowolf
Traditional weight training is useless for skiing. Neither Maier nor Miller do any. Maier rides the bike, Miller works on eccentric contraction. That's the kind of contraction one uses while skiing.
You're right, of course, Biowolf, that eccentric training is key and that Maier doesn't do much or any traditional weight lifting, but I think that's mainly a function of his motorcycle accident (he did a lot of lifting before then), and a lot of ski racers do a lot of weight training. Bode Miller (according to a writer for Men's Journal or Outdoor magazine this year--I forget which) does alternating sets of 6 350-400 lb. heavy squats, followed by hurdle jumps, in the offseason, along with his uphill unicycle rides, pushing the paving machine uphill, and one-legged hops on a tightrope. And Daron Rahlves does a lot of weight training, including heavy cleans for explosive leg strength.

Ron LeMaster says that racers going from 60 degree to 70 degree inclination increase forces acting on them from 2 Gs to 3 Gs, and Poutanian's coach says a key reason she's winning is that she's stronger than the other women.

IMHO, the best weight training exercises for skiing emphasize (1) balance under a load; (2) the eccentric (lowering) phase; and (3) explosive movements. Functional exercises are better than those seated in a machine.

So some of my favorites:

1. Squats. Variants: Partial squats, jump squats. Sumo squats with dumbells on a bongo board or bosu (flat side up.) One legged squats. Bar with squat rack is better than a Smith machine, because of the balance challenge.

2. Walking lunges, holding dumbells. But really concentrate on the lowering phase, controlling the decelleration. And then when you come back up, pause at the top, standing on one leg, for a count before you lunge forward onto your then suspended foot.

3. Plyometrics--jumping exercises. Especially lateral box jumps--do sets of 40-60 between sets of hamstring curls. Box jumps, lateral cone hops, picnic table hops, scissor jumps, knee tuck jumps.

4. Cleans. (An advanced exercise, and one if done wrong, will wreck your back. Work up to this one. And get the form down first with a broomstick, then a light bar, before working your way up. Or skip it entirely as too high in the "risk" quadrant on the risk/benefit line.)

5. Lateral lunges to work adductor and abductors, as are lateral step ups and lateral lunges up to a bench, if you're careful with your knees.

6. Deadlifts and hamstring curls. (For hamstring curls, you use a machine, but that's OK--skiers typically get muscle imbalances of strong quads, weak hamstrings if they don't do isolation exercises for hamstrings.)

7. If you do upper body weight lifting (and really--skiers don't need bigger biceps) you can do it as a post-fatigue set (after working legs) where you also work the legs (lunges with curl and press) or, if you can do it safely, on a balance apparatus like a swiss ball, bosu or bongo board. (Upright rows, curl and Arnold press, lawnmower pulls, military presses, lateral raises) One upper body lift that directly translates into poling power (and strong starts for racers) is explosive triceps pull-downs using a two-handed cable rope pull. Dips are also good.

I'm busy rethinking my program though, to try to see if I can tweak it to make it more high-level-racing-demand specific. It seems to me that a lot of the balance/strength challenge for racers is presented when the weight should be forward, on the ball of the foot instead of the whole foot, and a good training program should probably emphasize that as well.

SfDean.
post #24 of 35
When I did strength, flexibility and cardio exclusively, I was unable to even stand up on skis. Years later, when I added balance training, I found that I hardly ever fell.

This year, I've been working mostly balance and light strength training. I must admit, with a good degree of guilt, that midday, when I had to choose between going to the slopes, and heading to the rec center to lift weights, I chose the slopes. After all, I have spent most of my life inside a gym. Being 20 minutes, as opposed to four hours from the slope, is a new and exciting experience.

My balance improved even more, and I still rarely fall, even on terrain that I never believed I would be able to ski. My ski skill imporved immensely. One problem: two of my only falls this season caused injury, after four years of skiing injury free. The only change in my fitness routine was spending less time on traditional weight training.

While it would be unscientific to put a cause and effect diagnosis on this, I really do have to wonder if my injuries would have been less serious if I had been weight training consistently.
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biowolf
Check out the "Eccentron"
Biowolf--

Have you tried the Eccentron? What's your assessment? I know Bode Miller has mentioned it favorably and the U.S. Ski Team has incorporated it into their training, but I'm a little unclear on exactly how it works, even after looking at the Eccentron site online.

I'm probably going to spring for one piece of equipment this Summer, but I'm leaning toward the Skier's Edge World Cup plyometric power machine.

SfDean.
post #26 of 35
Dean and LM:
I realize I was very inprecise in my statement. Some of it was based on hearsay. I know Maier does not do weights because of his back. He had backproblems long before his accident. Remember, he is a construction worker. Of course he does more hen just ride the bike. Mike next aquisition is a book on his training program. I know more after that. According to what I read, Miller (how could it be othrewise) was always against weight training. But of course he increased his strength dramatically from last year. How much that is attributable to weights besides the Eccentron, Roller, Unicycle and plyos I dont know. One just gets the feeling that weights would not fit his personality. One thing seems for sure: Weights decrease the risk of injury. But they should be done skspecificically and combined with other activities (coordination, balance, streching, yoga, Tai chi etc) . Of course, this is my personal opinion and I dont claim to be right.
Re: the Eccentron, Gary Dranow and his wife worked out on it extensively last summer, recovering from injuries and he talks about it on one of his posts (under Biowolf Asks). He is very positive on it. There is also the book "Astrofit"
and the Probodx system.
When you talk about the Skier's Edge plyomatric power machine, is that something new? I am familiar with their traditional system.
post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biowolf
When you talk about the Skier's Edge plyometric power machine, is that something new? I am familiar with their traditional system.
The World Cup Plyometric Power is just their latest (a couple of years old now) version, with a higher bump in the middle and more resistance, (and, I think a wider stance) to simulate more closely the demands of high level skiing. It's really meant an an anaerobic/interval trainer (two minute runs) rather than an aerobics apparatus, like an exercise bike. Info at:

http://www.skiersedge.com/

My brother has one of their older machines, and uses it intermittently, but says he really wished he'd waited and gotten the World Cup Plyometric Power version.

The problem, from a cheapskate point of view, is that Skier's Edge machines are pretty pricey new, and pretty heavy used (large shipping charges) so--unlike most home exercise machines gathering dust out there in the country Big Mac made large--it's hard to get them really cheap on eBay.
post #28 of 35
This is what I'm doing: http://www.mattfurey.com/conditioning_book.html (forgive the marketing approach, please, but that's the site for the book I bought at the recommendation of a friend). Bodyweight exercise with Hindu squats, Hundu push-ups, and back bridges as the foundational exercises. They made a difference in my skiing this year...
post #29 of 35
Why are all the shown Skiers Edge users in sneakers?
post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfdean
The World Cup Plyometric Power is just their latest (a couple of years old now) version, with a higher bump in the middle and more resistance, (and, I think a wider stance) to simulate more closely the demands of high level skiing. It's really meant an an anaerobic/interval trainer (two minute runs) rather than an aerobics apparatus, like an exercise bike. Info at:

[.
Dean: I hate to knock somebody's product but one thing jumps out. You push off vertically on the machine and your feet dont turn. On skis you push off an (hopefully) extrem edge angle and your feet turn in relation to the rest of the body (at least to some degree). So what is the point.?
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