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Nordica Doberman WC 150

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I always figured this stuff about plug boots was hype. Why would a mere mortal want a pair. I'm not on the World Cup, how could it be worth it. I've also been perfectly happy with my Salomon X-Wave 10s, and having a fairly high-volume foot, I figured I could never get into a pair of plugs anyway. Well, in December I won a pair of any Nordicas I want. I fugured why not try a pair of Dobies? That was in December. Last week I finally got around to getting it done.

I had the fitting done by PJ Dewey of Racestock Sports in Waterbury, VT. I've heard a ot about him, so I wanted to see for myself. I've used Greg Hoffamn down at Stratton in the past as well as Benny Wax at Inner Bootworks (Stowe), and been perfectly happy with both of them, but I wanted to see what PJ does. I went down a week ago yesterday, and had the initial fitting done, started from the ground up with a footbed. I've got other footbeds that I am happy with, but I fogured I'd give him his due and let him start from the bottom. We then chose a shell. 26.5 vs. my 27.5 Sallie. Then, he loaded my feet up with lipstick and got to grinding while I played a little XBox. That was pretty much it. I took them home with plans to ski them the next day.

I went to the hill on Wednesday planning to work. I put on the boots (total pain in the ass, btw), and did a run before line-up. I was on my P60 SCs if I remember correctly. It had rained pretty badly the night before, and was now 5 degrees. Skittering describes what I was doing more than skiing, butt I could tell things had changed. AllI had to do was think turn, and they were already turning before I finished the thought. I got down to lineup, and the pain began to set in... I was really hoping I'd get out of there without a lesson so I could take those suckers off! Luckily I did get away. I took them off and after the feeling returned in my feet, I put them back on, and got back out on the snow, this time on my 185 Karmas. I managed to last the whole day in them, but felt a little uneasy. It was really tough snow conditions. Super grabby windpack on top of super slick ice, and the visiblity wasn't too good either.

I won't give te full blow by blow, but I have gone back to have more work done on them, and now as they have broken in some, they are starting to almost feel roomy. The performance is out of this world. On my race skis, it feels like there is another guy in the passenger seat who has his foot on the gas and won't take it off. I've never had any fear of speed, but it's taking a little getting used to. I cut my handicap almost in half yesterday at the skibum race if that counts for anything. As for flex, they're not nearly as bad as I thought they'd be. I was planning to have them cut right away, but they didn't feel that bad in the shop, and I can ski bumps and trees on them without too much trouble, so I don't think I will have them cut. Well, not much anyway. I still have to get used to them, but it is pretty amazing what they will do for you.

Bottomline is I would never have bought these boots, but they a re a lot better than I thought they'd be. I don't think I'll ever wear the X-Waves again.
post #2 of 19
Thanks Epic. PJ certainly comes highly recommended. Your verdict?
post #3 of 19
Re PJ/race stock sports:
PJ set my size men's size 9 foot up in the same boot. I've got bunions, a 6th toe, heel spur, 2nd/3rd toe overlap, & fred flinstone wide feet. PJ set me up in the most comfty boot i've ever had & it was a dobie wc 150 in a size 5 (mondo 24)!!!!!!!!!

I would rec having him soften them a little, it helps a bunch. Also add heaters as the liner is spartan at best & the fit snug. This helps keep the feet awake. I also have to duct tape mine closed at the toe & along the overlap b/c my foot is so wide. This helps a ton w/ heat retention & preventing snow from coming in. This, the duct tape, is no shot at the workmanship, I have had to do this w/ every plug i've been in..
bottom line: PJ da man!!!
post #4 of 19
How suitable are they for freeskiing? Do they kill your feet by the end of the day or are they pretty much close to a normal boot in comfort once fit properly? I'm thinking about getting a plug but probably softer than the 150, maybe the XS race tech or 130 dobermann.
post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by chris719
How suitable are they for freeskiing? Do they kill your feet by the end of the day or are they pretty much close to a normal boot in comfort once fit properly? I'm thinking about getting a plug but probably softer than the 150, maybe the XS race tech or 130 dobermann.
The 130 Dobie is not a plug, the 100 is (or at least I think it is). I figured I'd go with the 150 and have it softened if necessary. With the 150 there is more plastic for him to punch and grind than on the 130, and you get a better liner.
post #6 of 19
I think most folks would be surprised at how the flex of a plug works differently from the lesser boots, and as a result, might want to try a bit stiffer. As epic says, you can always have them softened.

Thanks for the review, epic, I had a similar experience when I jumped into my first consumer plug last year (Tecnica XT17s).
post #7 of 19
I have a question for iriponsnow, I bought some Lange 130 LFs in a 27.5/9.5. My left foot measures an 11.5, and my right measures a 12. They are tight, which is good lol, but the toes on my right foot won't fit in without curling, and intense pain and numbness when I try to ski. The left can straighten, and are ok. I've seen a bootfitter at Basin Ski Shop in Killington, which is highly reccomended by my buddies who race. He told me they were just too tight, even w/ stretches and grinds. My question is what did this guy do to enable you to downsize 4(!!) shells? Were your toes curled before he did work? How much space was in the shell? I really want these to work b/c they are sooooo nice to lay over and carve.
post #8 of 19

thanks for the reviews, you have confirmed the good things I had heard. Had afew different foot problems this year that Ithought I had got away from years ago so need to think seriously about shelling out. I hadn't realized that the 130 was not a plug though.

Following up on Chris719's question, is the Dobie still wearable outside the course as well when done properly?
post #9 of 19
How could you fit a size 9 into a 24 shell? 25 maybe but 24 is pretty small.
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier
Following up on Chris719's question, is the Dobie still wearable outside the course as well when done properly?
The Dobie and I are friends now. I told PJ when he fiit them that I want performance, but I must be able to wear them all day everyday all season. I think we are there. I spent the whole weekend skiing bumps and trees. No problemo as far as skiingthem. The fifth metatatrsal (proximal end) was pretty sore on Sunday, so I went back for more grinding. I thik we've achieved my goal. They should be wearable (and more than just bearable) all day everyday.
post #11 of 19
Quick answers:
I would go seen PJ about your LF130. He may be able to help ya out, yet the lf 130 is not a plug & therefore does not have as much material to grind away. You may be able to "pound out" the liner. ID the spot on the liner, place a golf ball in the spot inside, wack away w/ a hammer some to crush more room out of the liner. It workx

I found the WC 150 too stiff/cold for true all mtn use: backside, bumps, trees, cliffs...i hade racestock (todd... who deresrves a raise!) make me an all mtn boot. A tecnica icon comp. Still I ground for everthing & am in a 24.0. Tried a 25 a couple of times & is too big/sloppy. I spend a ton of time on the boots. Have PJ/Todd do the inital work. Own my very own boot spreader & grinder & do touch up as needed. The trick to getting your foot in there so small is to start prior to the snow flying & fix everthing at the first sign of trouble. Dont wait till your feet are hamberger meat & you can not ever wear sneakers bc of pain & swelling.
I recently had new liners made @ Surefoot for a trip out west. They were scratching their heads as to how I got my feet in the shells!!!
Go see PJ & Todd. They know their stuff even compared to "good fitters"...my bear skis the Lange RL1 (real plug) & was hating life after a not to be named here shop w/ great rep & really good servicehad set her up. Truth of the matter was PJ told her she was in a boot a full size to big. She went w/ his work/rec, got into the smaller shell & has been kicking butt in them for 2 seasons w/ no problems.
post #12 of 19
Thanks for the great info guys
post #13 of 19
One more note about the sizing: I could get away w/ a 25 if I skied 10 days a season or so. Many people never need such a small , snug fit. I ussually hit about 70+ days a year & would pack out a 25 way too much for it to be supportive. Once your foot starts slopping around & you buckle down tighter, your foot cramps & develops all sorts of strange pressure points
Even though I'm in what seems to be a small shell for my foot, once fit, it is really more comfy than a larger boot would be b/c of the support & true custom fit due to the grinds & forming of the shell.
post #14 of 19
Last comment for doublediamonddude: If your toes are curled & that is the big complaint I would double, triple, 4x check the placement/fit of the footbed & orthotic in the liner. I have had just about everyone make orthotics for my boots & I have always found that they end up wider/longer than the should be. This is true even when they have been ground to fit in the boot. If you are all curled up in the toes you can often get some room by trimming/grinding the front/sides of the footbed/othotic down & ensuring their is plenty of room for it to fit, fit flat, & have toes on top...you can even trim down to creat space... if it is not exactly flat, your toes will be pushed up & into the liner/shell = PAIN
Good luck
post #15 of 19
Thanks for all the info guys, I'm going to sell the Langes, as I can probably get what I paid for them and then get something a little bigger. A guy offered me a Head RD 96 for 250 in another forum. Since they are basically a plug, there should be more plastic to manipulate for a better fit.
post #16 of 19
Originally Posted by skierzzzzzz
How could you fit a size 9 into a 24 shell? 25 maybe but 24 is pretty small.
Most skiiers on the world cup shave about 4 sizes off of their sneaker size, I read an article where bode talked about having a size 12 or 13 sneaker and skiing in a 8 or 9 size boot (can't remember exactly) and how he often loses his big toe nails by mid season. But unless you plan on skiing Kitzbuhel next season its a little bit overkill to ski 4 sizes less than your sneaker.
post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 

These are the most comfortable boots I have ever owned. I work in them, race in them, free ski in them. Bumps trees powder, it's all good. I finally gave in and had them softened today though. Last Saturday it got down to 3 degrees, and I was in a world of hurt when I left the courdoroy. I figured once it gets cold and stays that way (if it ever does!) I'll have a real problem. In temps down to 15 or so the flex was fine, but below that my bump skiing was a mess. I had the shoe cut down on both sides, and flex was significantly less.

Bottom Line - the boots are great. I can't believe they are my most comfortable boot ever. They're not perfect. They are a pain in the balls to get off, and they are cold. Even with the Hotronics, I am not sure how I'll hold up to the sub-zero days. I'll report back on the softening if it ever gets cold. It was 30ish today, and they actually felt a little too soft, so I guess I've really gotten used ot the encased in granite feel.

As a side note, I plan to order a pair of Hot Rods for the days when it is way below zero and just use the shells with my 150 liners.
post #18 of 19
For Doublediamond223:
If you are interested in a Lange plug, I have a pair of RL-1's for sale. Last years' Lange RL-1 in a 25-25.5. The bottom shell is a ZC (medium flex) with the upper cuff a ZB (soft flex). Will throw in some extras, like extra ladders, buckles, and bails. This boot is brand new, no grinding or mods at all. Now asking $250.00 OBO. No reasonable offer refused. Buyer pays shipping from C-Springs, CO to you. Email me at gsmith217@msn.com, if interested. This is a good deal, this boot retail (if you can get it) is at least $400.00.
post #19 of 19
Wow. This is a really old thread.

I think it is one of the first threads that I posted on after joining, ~480 posts ago. WOW...this site is addictive.

Anyway, while I appreciate the offer, there is no way I can get my size 12 foot into a size 7 boot, especially an RL1. Even Bode doesn't downsize that much. A size 9 is about the lowest I could go, afaik.

Now if you had a 27 or a 28 in an RL11 then you might have a buyer......
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