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Has anyone adapted Non-Neox bindings to a Metron?

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
The M10 bare weighs 4 lbs 6 oz, and the Neox binding weighs 3 lbs 10 oz. >> The binding weighs almost as much the ski!

My M10 164s with Neox 412s are too heavy [for my tastes] and much of the bulk is in the bindings. I want to install bindings that weigh less.

Last night, I removed the 412 bindings and exposed the attached base plate. There are two beige snap-on cosmetic covers that, when removed, reveal the plate-to-ski attachment structure. It appears that with a secondary plate or platform, there are numerous options to redrill and mount lighter bindings. Has anyone done this? I do not want to remove this bottom plate, just adapt different, lighter, bindings.

I am aware of the 06 Aluminum Neox replacement. The reported weight reduction is 500 grams or 1.02 pounds (18 oz) per pair. If this is accurate, each aluminum binding will still weigh slightly more than 3 lbs.ea.

Given the fact that my current setup weighs in at 8.0 lbs; the skis with the new bindings would still weigh just more than 7.4 lbs. This is still too heavy. I want to bring the each ski assy down to 6.5 lbs or less. TIA Gordo
post #2 of 28
I stuck a device plate right on the M10 plate and mounted device 310 bindings. Cheapo plastic but they are really light, they work, and they were sitting around. The total rise is less than FIS maximum. I had to drill some of the dimpled alternative screw holes in the plate--they were a perfect fit and obviously meant for other Atomic patterns. I'm trying to line up some device 412's because I'm about maxed out on the heel DIN.

You won't be able to put non-Atomic bindings on that plate without first screwing in a fully drillable plate over the top, and they are heavy and hard to find.

My pair of 171's weighs in at 12-13 lbs with those bindings.
post #3 of 28
I got my M:9 mounted with Markers 9.2 speedpoint. The bindings were recalled and Marker replaced them with Comp 14 Speedpoint, they are getting mounted right now and I should pick them up tomorrow.

They worked fine so far for the couple of runs I had with them before the adjusted-latch popped out. :

....
post #4 of 28
On my first pair of M:XI's I installed Salomon 912's. Now, I did this install myself, since I have my own jigs. You will be hard pressed to find a shop that will mount a non-Atomic binding on this ski. IMO, the weight of the Neox vs. the lighter Salomon was non existant in skiing, but I did notice a difference in carrying the skis. This ski has a very low swing weight and with that difference in weight being right in the center of the ski, you will not notice when you are on the snow.
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
I did ski the Metron Neox combo, and my complaint stems from situations where it is necessary to lift the skis up off the snow. e.g. Tight turns in a narrow hardpack chute. Or just picking them up when traversing the flatlands. No complaints with the weight while carving thru the crud. And I agree the moment of rotational inertia is mosly under the foot, so 'swing' weight is OK.

However, just moving the 8.0 lb ski around when not carving is tiring for a 155 lb 59 YO cruiser. I know I can make this ski more fun by knocking off some weight. The ski alone is not that heavy; however, the bindings are and that is where I want to begin.

I also agree it is common sense to stick with Atomic parts here. I think I will try Newfydog's idea of using a Device platform; but with 310s. I will get some specific weights this evening. I am targeting 6.5 lbs. each.
post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
On my first pair of M:XI's I installed Salomon 912's. Now, I did this install myself, since I have my own jigs. .
Phil-- Did you screw the solly's into a plate or into that beta lobed surface?
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog
Phil-- Did you screw the solly's into a plate or into that beta lobed surface?
I screwed it into the plate. I did put plugs in the predrilled holes that were close to where I drilled. The shop would not have mounted them for me, which I understood.


Back on topic,

I really doubt you would notice a difference in the weight of a binding when you are skiing.
post #8 of 28
I thought the m:9 and m:10 have just the plastic plate (no predrilled holes on mine) that can be mounted with any bindings. Or at least what the guy at the shop said when I asked him if he can mount the Markers on them. :
And the m:11 are predrilled.
post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dupersc
I thought the m:9 and m:10 have just the plastic plate (no predrilled holes on mine) that can be mounted with any bindings. Or at least what the guy at the shop said when I asked him if he can mount the Markers on them. :
And the m:11 are predrilled.
9's and 10's came both ways, with predrilled and flat plates. The 11's and B5's, came just predrilled.
post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dupersc
I thought the m:9 and m:10 have just the plastic plate (no predrilled holes on mine) that can be mounted with any bindings. Or at least what the guy at the shop said when I asked him if he can mount the Markers on them. :
And the m:11 are predrilled.
My M10's came with a non drillable light plastic plate with open holes for Neox. There are also very small inserts of stronger plastic where other Atomic holes might be needed. The inserts are dimpled where the holes go and the drill out in one twist of a hand drill. so they too are actually pre-drilled, just covered. I was able to put the Device plate in the Centro (demo binding) holes. Sounds like Phil was able to line up the Solly's with the Atomic inserts.

I congratulate you Phil on defeating the conspiracy!
post #11 of 28
at mike wiegele heli ski we have mounted the fatter metrons (85 wiast) with salomon right to the ski, no lead filled lifters, no atomic bindings, just right to the ski.
works great. light weight, skis fine, no durability issues.
post #12 of 28
Thread Starter 

I weighed the m10 and the Neox binding..

Metron M10 w/o binding weighs 4 lbs. 6 oz. (1.98 kg)

Neox 412 binding weighs 3 lbs 10 oz ea (1.67 kg)

Device bindings are 1 lb 9 oz ea (0.705 kg)

The 2006 aluminum construction includes the 310 Neox and 412 Neox (500 grams per pr lighter)

Also: "Device units will mount to M-9 and M-10 Metrons"
post #13 of 28
Just for comparison, my M:9 164 with Marker Comp 14 Speedpoint weights a little more than 6 lbs each.
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordopost
Metron M10 w/o binding weighs 4 lbs. 6 oz. (1.98 kg)

Neox 412 binding weighs 3 lbs 10 oz (1.67 kg)

The binding weighs almost as much as the Ski !!

Something that has bugged me for a while: Why do people seem to think the way to clean their boots is to kick the living crap out of their bindings? I suppose tanks like the Neox are what we get in return.
post #15 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dupersc
Just for comparison, my M:9 164 with Marker Comp 14 Speedpoint weights a little more than 6 lbs each.
Do you have separate weights for the bindings and skis? Six pounds plus is my target weight for the 164 M-10.

RE: Newfydog's comment about using bindings to clean boots... Some bindings advertise they have a "boot scraper" built into their design. I've never been certain where these scrapers are; or more importantly why they would suggest this in the first place. Why would anyone want to clean their boot bottom directly over the mounting surface the binding which must be clear of debris in order to function properly?
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog
Something that has bugged me for a while: Why do people seem to think the way to clean their boots is to kick the living crap out of their bindings? I suppose tanks like the Neox are what we get in return.
My guess is because its the easiest way to clean the bottom of the boots. Unless your balance/flexibility is pretty darn good you will have a tough time standing on one foot (especially if its already in a ski on slippery snow) while you bend the other leg to gain access to the bottom of the boot to clean it (presumably with your pole).

On the B5 front my local shop found that the 2005 Neox 310 was about 1/2lb lighter (per pair) than the 2005 Neox 412, so if you don't need the increased DIN you can save some weight.
post #17 of 28
Thread Starter 
[/quote] On the B5 front my local shop found that they Neox 310 was about 1/2lb lighter (per pair) than the Neox 312 [sic. 412], so if you don't need the increased DIN you can save some weight. [/quote]

That is good news. We weighed each component separately, and the front assys account for most of the weight. Maybe an aluminum 06 Neox 310 would work out. I am at DIN 6, so the extra settings are not necessary.
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog
Something that has bugged me for a while: Why do people seem to think the way to clean their boots is to kick the living crap out of their bindings? I suppose tanks like the Neox are what we get in return.
Well, I don't kick them that hard, but I do rub the snow off on the toepieces. I think just the opposite: why to people whack at their boots with their poles when it doesn't actually do anything? Why do they try to balance on one foot and scrub at the soles with a pole tip or basket? I've seen people fall over trying to do that (and not getting the goal accomplished, anyway). Sure, it's funny, but is that the goal?
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordopost
Do you have separate weights for the bindings and skis? Six pounds plus is my target weight for the 164 M-10.
Unfortunately I didn't think of weighting the skis alone before they were mounted.

Just for kicks, I put my K2 Mod 7/8 on the scale and each weights in a little more then 5lbs. So the Metron is about 1lb heavier. I also have demo bindings so that may add a bit of weight.

I agree that once the skis are on the snow you don't notice their weights, but when they are dangling on your feet from the long lift ride, man they hurt the knees so bad. Tensing up the knee muscle to hold the weight only made it worst.


....
post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 

Drop two pounds with the Metron diet plan

Atomic rep said:
  • Device bindings will mount to pre-drilled Metron M-9 and M-10 plates.
  • The 2006 aluminum construction includes the 310 Neox and 412 Neox (both 500 grams per pair lighter)
  • Device bindings weigh 3.11 lbs per pr. (1411 grams per pair)
Therefore:
  • 164 M10 with 05 Neox weighs 8.000 lbs
  • 164 M10 with 06 Neox weighs 7.606 lbs
  • 164 M10 with Device weighs 5.919 lbs
post #21 of 28
I have seen 2005 SX:11's with 2004 614 bindings on them, so I'm guessing the holes are somewhat compatible, or the plate can be redrilled without interfering.
post #22 of 28
My R11s are being replaced under warranty with some Metron B5s. I asked the rep about binding issues and was told my 2003 R614 will mount with no problems by drilling out the appropriate dimple in the plate.

Greg
post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordopost
Metron M10 w/o binding weighs 4 lbs. 6 oz. (1.98 kg)

Neox 412 binding weighs 3 lbs 10 oz ea (1.67 kg)

Device bindings are 1 lb 9 oz ea (0.705 kg)

The 2006 aluminum construction includes the 310 Neox and 412 Neox (500 grams per pr lighter)

Also: "Device units will mount to M-9 and M-10 Metrons"
My 2006 Neox 412 weights in at 3 lbs 4 oz each so that's only about a 375 gram difference... I was hopping it would really be 500 grams lighter. But again can 125 grams really be felt once one get past 3 lbs per binding?
post #24 of 28
Thread Starter 
I am going with the device binding. I cannot see hauling around all that extra weight on the bottom of my boot all day long. Sure skiing that weight is OK, but what per centage of of the time are you downhill skiing? Most of the time I am in lift lines, skiing across the flats, etc. Even sitting on the lift, they are heavy. gordo
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuerst
My 2006 Neox 412 weights in at 3 lbs 4 oz each so that's only about a 375 gram difference... I was hopping it would really be 500 grams lighter. But again can 125 grams really be felt once one get past 3 lbs per binding?
I am swapping my 05 Neox's on my M11's for 06's. The only reason I am doing this is because..well I can. I will be putting my 05 Neox's on my M9's.
post #26 of 28
Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this...
Doctor: Then stop doing it...

For all the hassle and possible performance and safety issues, why not just buy a different ski & binding combo? Seriously, there are now other skis with shapes roughly similar to the Metrons.

And even if you can mount a Device or old style 614, why would you? Then in two or three months we'll all get to hear complaining about some problem that arises out of doing this. And then someone will act all shocked and outraged. Especially if they happend to have mounted an older generation 614. This strikes me as masochistic behavior. The Neoxs just pop right on and do a great job...

Why not just find a system ski that is light enough to make you happy, or get a flat ski that'll take the bindings you want? If I were a lighter person and really, really worried about weight, I'd at least take a look at this year's Salomons & maybe a few others. No muss, no fuss...
post #27 of 28
Thread Starter 

Why buy diiferent skis?

This is not a case of having bought the wrong ski. I am having fun tweaking them so they work even better. All my cars are hot rods. I have the tools, skills, and ideas on how to improve these skis in order to personalize them and make them work better for me. gordo
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordopost
I am going with the device binding. I cannot see hauling around all that extra weight on the bottom of my boot all day long. Sure skiing that weight is OK, but what per centage of of the time are you downhill skiing? Most of the time I am in lift lines, skiing across the flats, etc. Even sitting on the lift, they are heavy. gordo
Hi gordopost if you do get another binding on please tell how it works.
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