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Beta at the top level of ski racing - Page 2

post #31 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman
I fondly recall Salomon's early entry in racing. They touted Marc Girardelli using the SX91 Equipe as a vindication of rear entry boot technology. Needless to say, there was nothing remotely "rear entry" about Giradelli's boots."
Absolutly an incorrect statement! If you were around the WC then you would know exactly what Alan Trimble did to make them work! And they did work. Alan, Marc and Marc's dad (name escapes me) did some pretty crazy stuff to win on that boot.

coup
post #32 of 44
Thread Starter 
I don't recall Giradelli evr using anything beyond the SX90E, the first version.
post #33 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by sars
Actually I have skis on the world cup Atomics and they are not beta and are made out of wood. How is a tech rep going to know what they are using half way across the world on the World Cup. There race skis on the WC are wood and are a laminate custruction with a cap made to look like beta. Sorry, but it is the truth.
post #34 of 44

WC Beta?

Geeesh...the BS gets hot and heavy sometimes around here. I have a couple of this years WC GS skis ( don't ask how) mens( red) and womans (blue: 183, 24m+)). Neither has Beta, both are wood laminate, and, yes, both have the tiny race room icons embossed in the bases at the tail. In short they are the real deal and neither has beta construction. They also don't ski in any way similar to the 'race stock" versions. The woman's in particular has a much softer shovel, loves the fall line, hates being driven to the tip and likes be skied binding mount forward. They both also need to be skied fast...not recreational fast, but FIS level GS speeds.
That said, my understanding is that there are some mens WC skiers who still use Beta for the slightly beefier feeling it gives partic. for SL.
In truth, the WC skis are in a constant state of evolution , and making generalizations is risky as at any given moment only the top athletes and their factory techs know whats actually underfootat any given race/training/test
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird
Geeesh...the BS gets hot and heavy sometimes around here. I have a couple of this years WC GS skis ( don't ask how) mens( red) and womans (blue: 183, 24m+)). Neither has Beta, both are wood laminate, and, yes, both have the tiny race room icons embossed in the bases at the tail. In short they are the real deal and neither has beta construction. They also don't ski in any way similar to the 'race stock" versions. The woman's in particular has a much softer shovel, loves the fall line, hates being driven to the tip and likes be skied binding mount forward. They both also need to be skied fast...not recreational fast, but FIS level GS speeds.
That said, my understanding is that there are some mens WC skiers who still use Beta for the slightly beefier feeling it gives partic. for SL.
In truth, the WC skis are in a constant state of evolution , and making generalizations is risky as at any given moment only the top athletes and their factory techs know whats actually underfootat any given race/training/test
Absolutely, totally, agree, with tbird. Go fast in any sport dependent upon gear (one of my other favorites is sailboat racing) is one part teknik, one part voodoo and one part superstition, as noted in this thread (http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=24083&highlight=fischer+rc4+race+ stock ). My cousin in Germany dates a guy who is on the Porsche factory auto racing team, and it's the same deal there. In any of these sports nobody wants to talk about anything they think is making the difference. So on a lot of this we just won't know unless someone can buy Hans and Franz (our hypothetical factory techs) a drink or two.
post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by coupdevill
Absolutly an incorrect statement! If you were around the WC then you would know exactly what Alan Trimble did to make them work! And they did work. Alan, Marc and Marc's dad (name escapes me) did some pretty crazy stuff to win on that boot.
Coup,

Thanks for helping me make the point that World Cup gear is very different from retail gear, regardless of what any marketer (or photo) seems to communicate.
post #37 of 44
@tbird

Could you check if the sidewall and woodcore are replaced with rubber inside the tip (you could notice it from the outside)
post #38 of 44
the newer wc skis are losing the beta... sorry beta folks.
that being said, I agree skis are constantly changing & atomic has many levels of variations out there ( & beta is used on wc)
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaracer
http://www.zoom-agence.fr/gallery/al...-1002-0005.jpg

For those of you who think there is no Beta on the World Cup (this photo is from Maier's World Championship winning race).
Remember that in professional sports where retailers sell equipment to the public: Often time’s equipment used at the top levels, be it World Cup Skiing, ATP Tour Tennis, or NHL Hockey equipment, the equipment given to the pros is often customized equipment painted to look like consumer products. This increases sales because people believe that they are buying the same gear used by the pros. In reality, the equipment available to the public is far different. This is true of skis, tennis racquets, and hockey sticks. Never assume that the paint job (cap or base) you see in a picture is proof that a piece of equipment is what it looks like. The cap on a ski can be what ever the manufacturer wants it to look like. The racers don’t care. Any REP would know this, but might not say this...True Barry?
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by skie_time
Remember that in professional sports where retailers sell equipment to the public: Often time’s equipment used at the top levels, be it World Cup Skiing, ATP Tour Tennis, or NHL Hockey equipment, the equipment given to the pros is often customized equipment painted to look like consumer products. This increases sales because people believe that they are buying the same gear used by the pros. In reality, the equipment available to the public is far different. This is true of skis, tennis racquets, and hockey sticks. Never assume that the paint job you see in a picture is proof that a piece of equipment is what it looks like.
pretty tough to paint 3-D Beta Lobes that are clearly visible onto a ski. Plus Betaracer has personally been to many World Cup races.
post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
pretty tough to paint 3-D Beta Lobes that are clearly visible onto a ski. Plus Betaracer has personally been to many World Cup races.
You sound like true expert...I'm sure you know better than I.
post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by skie_time
You sound like true expert...I'm sure you know better than I.
I don't know about all that, but look at the pic that Betaracer posted. Hermann's skis definetly have Beta.
post #43 of 44
none of the beta profile skis are all wood. in those skis there is a wood laminate with two layers of metal but the entire ski is not made of wood, they are beta construction. more than any other company atomic is constantly changing and tweaking to find a faster setup. for every two or three skis you might see on the hill there are literally dozens that dont make it past testing. all world cup slalom skis will continue to use a beta profile simply because of the unmatched edge grip. the new gs skis (men,women and junior) are laminates that allow the skis to feather into the turn a lot easier. the beta construction on all the previous gs skis was a bit too much for most skiers, the ski was engaged or not, sort of all or nothing. frankly the skis probably had too much edge grip for softer snow, this is why you will see (just like this year) world cuppers starting out on beta profiled gs skis and ending out the year on laminates (or going to those skis as conditions dictate). the new atomic world cup skis are better than ever, check them out at our mt. hood test center or at the mammoth facility.
mark bettencourt
atomic race east
mabettencourt@atomicski.com
post #44 of 44
Thanks Mark for clarifying Atomics position reguarding Beta vs laminate WC skis and for describing the performance differences between the two. It is so nice when some one in a position to know resolves this sort of thing.

I am surprised this thread seems to be dying without some "I told ya" or "Oops, you were right" posts. I guess everyone is happy enough to know the real story and now we can all move on or go back to sleep or whatever.

dt
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