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System Skis/Bindings Warning

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I have noticed recently that there have been some sites selling either used or new system skis without the bindings. I have even seen a few people on Epic try to sell the same, for whatever reason.

This is an extremely sticky position to put yourself in. Having random skis and or bindings circulating out there without their mates is super sketchy! Could they have fallen off the back of a truck? Were they stollen from the shop? Or did they come from the UPS graveyard down south?

Most manufacturers only carry enough bindings for the amount of skis they have. They come into the country one-to-one. What is not sold can be used most often for warranty stock. If you buy or are given a pair of skis without the bindings beware that you may never get the chance to use the system as those bindings may not be made available to you by the manufacturer. If they are made available to you, you best be explaining yourself and have your credit card in hand.

A manufacturer would rather take the chance on selling the system at a closeout price to a shop than to split them up, making that ski virtually useless.

I just thought I would throw this out there. I hope none of you have gotten screwed by this, but I know it does happen.

On a lighter note:
Its snowing in NE, come on up for the weekend!
post #2 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by valleygrlvt
A manufacturer would rather take the chance on selling the system at a closeout price to a shop than to split them up, making that ski virtually useless.
They build more skis than system bindings, as the skis are warranted more often. At some point, that warranty stock has to go someplace.

You do not usually get a new binding when you warranty your system ski, or vice versa.
post #3 of 18
I don't care, as long as I get the right setup cheapy cheapy.
post #4 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
They build more skis than system bindings, as the skis are warranted more often. At some point, that warranty stock has to go someplace.

You do not usually get a new binding when you warranty your system ski, or vice versa.
I respectfully disagree. For the number of companies that have paired up to offer the system skis, the binding company usually does the warranty on their own product, leaving the plate and ski to the ski manufacturer. With the exception of Volkl, as far as I know, who takes care of the Marker bindings in-house for their systems.

After a certain amount of time the ski manufacturer will have enough remate stock to be able to handle warranty without dipping into quality one stock. The systems that have not been sold thoughout the year may be used as a possible upgrade for skis that are no longer available. The extra bindings left over from Q1 warranties can then be used to accomodate shops that have legitimetly lost product in shipping, or take care of their own reps that have had binding damage and would lose time going through the binding manufacturer.

Warranty stock does not just "go someplace". Actually most warranty stock, with the exception of remates (a single ski undamaged, sent is a part of a pair for warranty), comes from the quality one stock. When that has gone dry you would be offered an upgraded ski (with system binding if not compatible to the original).

My warning was mostly for people to realize that it is frowned upon to have single pieces of a system floating around out there. The one post in the Gear Swap that got me thinking about this had mentioned a pair of Hot Rods that had been won, but the bindings were not available. That is super sketchy b/c that ski has not been on the market that long, and for most regions will not be until late summer.
post #5 of 18
Where are you getting your information from and how can you back it up?

Do you work in the industry or does a famlily member? Based on this thread and how harsh you were on the other warranty thread I would imgaine so.

I picked up a pair of next year's Dynastar Legend 8000s from an actual retailer a few months ago. Did those fall off the back of a truck?

What about shops that sell system bindings such as Atomic Neox bindings without the ski? Why do they have extras that aren't paired with a ski?

Why when I got a replacement from Atomic last year and got a pair of Metron XI's that even Atomic USA did not have a matched pair of Neox bindings for them? I had to wait and ended up getting a yellow pair instead of the orange that is usually put on the XIs.

Who frowns upon someone buying a cheap ski that requires a system binding?

A retailer maybe?
post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
I do have in's in the industry, and I have a shop background, besides being a consumer.

My thought when posting in the gear thread was first reaction..."holy crap, you don't want to be doing that!".

The reasons listed in the above post confirms why your shop is selling skis without the bindings, the bindings without the skis and why you were not able to get your hands on them. I was mainly speaking of companies that pair up such as the handful of Marker partnerships or the Elan/Tyrolia new for this past year.

Maybe your shop dealt with a warrranty in-house, or they never received the bindings for the pair they purchased due to shipping or poor inventory counts. There are many reasons why this can happen.

This type of sale should be frowned upon by everyone. The consumer, the retailer and the manufacturer. How dissapointing is it to buy a ski that you were told you could easily get a pair of bindings for and have that not be true?

If I bought a pair of inline skates missing an axle, b/c a shop had to rob the part to satisfy another customer and I was unable to get the correct axle for the skate I would be pretty pissed. I am guessing the shop would probably not take that skate back and I would be out some $$$.

I don't want any of this to sound harsh, but if there is atleast one person helped by this warning I will be a happy girl, although I will probably never hear about it.
post #7 of 18
I think you bring up a good point, and it merits discussion.....I prowl ebay frequently and have seen a lot of system ski's ( I primarily shop Volkl) for sale there without bindings....not flat skis, but motion system skis...I had wondered regarding avail of the correct system binding...but had not done any research....as I still currently prefer a flat ski with racing bindings...current main squeeze had marker logic mrr's but the system days are ahead...I would like to know more ...I hope this thread reveals some more facts...thanks for posting it...
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
I would really like to have this turn into a discussion thread. How do people feel about this? Have they been put in this situation? Were the manufacturers responsive in accomodating this issue?

I checked ebay today myself and did see a few "shops" selling this stuff, as well as indivduals. I am curious to see if there is anyone on this site that is affiliated with these shops and what the circumstances were in purchasing and/or selling the 1/2 systems.

Let's hear what everyone thinks, good or bad!
post #9 of 18
Not a bad thing for informed buyers... sometimes want a second pair\back up pair of a favorite ski. Being able to pick ski up without the binding works if going to move existing binding over.
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco
Not a bad thing for informed buyers... sometimes want a second pair\back up pair of a favorite ski. Being able to pick ski up without the binding works if going to move existing binding over.
A valid point. This could be the shops thinking in selling one part of the system.

Any other thoughts, or examples?
post #11 of 18
Also, let's consider possible savings if a person were to develop a single brand quiver allowing him to have multiple skis (carver, midfat, powder...) all with the same interface (Railflex etc...). One could then have multiple skis and opne pair of bindings that can be easily slid from one to the other thereby saving significant money on the cost of bindings.
post #12 of 18
A visit to Sports Authority in Woburn is a case in point. They had at least 15 pairs of C9 skis which were marked as being sold with device bindings. But they didnt have one single pair of bindings on hand. Where did they go? So rather than try and find separate device bindings I decided to skip the purchase.
post #13 of 18
In our town Volkls and Motion Markers are sold separately. I think it is just fair and honest approach, as the fact that bindings usually outlast skis is well known. Possibility to save on bindings was the main reason why I purchased Volkls again after having bent (20 skiing days only!!!) my previous pair.

I know there are also shops that sell only “packages”. Therefore I believe, in second hand market there must be more bindings than skis available.
post #14 of 18
I can't speak to systems that use Marker bindings, but I'm not so sure this is a big deal on systems like Head/Tyrolia and Atomic. For one thing, this season I ordered a pair of Head i.C160's for my mother, but didnt' bother with the bindings since I had a pair of LD12's lying around unused. No problems whatsoever.

Secondly, consider that for a given system, there are usually a few different choices of binding. For Heads, you have a choice of Free Flex 14 or 17 on any ski with a CarvePlate (not exactly a system, but still requires Tyrolia bindings), or for the Railflex, a choice of HD14, LD12, SLD11 or SL10. Atomics have a choice of of 310, 412 or 614 in the Neox, Race and EBM lines (plus 1018 for Race), and 259, 310 and 412 for Device. On that basis alone, I think it's clear that they don't simply produce skis and bindings on a 1:1 ratio, because they have no idea what a given consumer will want on their skis, even if it is a system binding. It's true that most stores offer a package price with a ski and binding, but if you wanted to move up from say a Neox 412 to a 614, the store will be happy to do that, even if they have to order another set of bindings. It's silly to suggest otherwise.
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
As for Marker product it has been my experience that, in the US as far as I know, certain models are paired with certain dins.

Such as the Nordica SUV 14 XBS is only available with the Marker 3-12 binding, the SUV 10 is only available with the Marker 3-11 Synergy track or as a flat ski.

The Elan Fusion skis are sold as pairs with the respective Tyrolia bindings, based on their lineup.

I understand being able to use any model binding within the system for any ski, however, most systems seem to be sold w/ their "suggested" binding as advertised.

However I can only speak on the systems that I am familiar with and I understand Volkl has a similiar practice to what CanuckInstructor pointed out.

Good thoughts here!
post #16 of 18

Wanted: Nordica Synergy bindings for Nordica Beast TT 75

While we are on te topic: I need a pair of Nordica's Synergy bindings that fit Beast 75 TT skis .Thanks
post #17 of 18
Ummm, we aren't on the topic. You posted into a thread from 2 seasons ago. If you want gear you should post a WTB in the gear buying forum.
post #18 of 18
One more good reason to not buy a ski/binding system.
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