EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Anyone see the epic wipe out down North Chute 2/25/05???
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Anyone see the epic wipe out down North Chute 2/25/05???

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Well that was me.



We arrived for vacation on thurs Feb 24th and the 25th was our first day at the bird. Last run @ 3:30 we dropped into North Chute off the cirque for one last rip. About 3 turns into it, my Marker Pistons (never again) double ejected leaving me helplessly suspended in mid turn in mid air. Once i landed i did whatever i could to get turned around and cover my head, and then the epic slide ensued. After sliding nearly 400' i came to a stop after compressing three or four powder bumps. Miraculously, i stood up and started laughing, most likely from realizing i was still alive, and was left with only some serious black and blues and a re-dislocated shoulder. Everyone in my party had already written me off, and ski patrol was on the way. I know this should be in the "best wipeout" thread, but figured since the last tram was directly overhead, i thought maybee some board memebers in the bird might have witnessed it. I know for sure it was talked about all weekend from what i heard form my local friends. It was an epic wipe out, and a great way to get my vacation started last week. Hope someone out there saw this and can tell me how it looked from above....apparently y'all tought i was dead. I can assure you i'm alive and well, leashed up to my computer here at work again....which, well...sucks to be back east.
post #2 of 28
You should try adjusting your bindings properly.
post #3 of 28
why do people complain about the marker bindings??? i am a large ,, heavy ,, and very aggresive skier,and ive skied on marker with no problems for some time,,,, get your bindings adjusted....

??isnt marker owned by k2?? i dont see seth morrison having binding issues??
post #4 of 28
I do sympathize, have skied on Markers beginning w/ turntables and longthongs, but lately have fallen victim to the ski shops setting my bindings on ridiculously low DINs (7) because that's what the chart says for a 55 year old. That's been the cause of some recent pre-releases for me, not the fact they're Markers. You can list dozens of current and past greats who ski on Markers including Shane McConkey, Kristina Koznick, and Brad Holmes. I'm going to solve my problem by cranking up my DIN, always been hesitant to do that but after getting bailed out unexpectedly in a few bad spots it seems the safer of alternatives. Really don't think Marker is any worse or better than other major binding. I remember "MittersillManiac" who used to rant about his awesome wipe-out where he slid to the bottom of MRG accelerating on the ice all the way. People still tell the tale.
post #5 of 28

Not another Marker bashing thread ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slownlow
...About 3 turns into it, my Marker Pistons (never again) double ejected leaving me helplessly suspended in mid turn in mid air ...
Hmm, a double klicker "pre-release" ... riiiiight.

I've pre-released on Sollies, Markers, and Tyrolias in all sorts of places and conditions. Everywhere from free skiing to Slalom courses, to Downhills and everything in between. Every single time only one ski came off - usually due to something I did, or something I hit, and not due to binding malfunction.

If you're pre-releasing out of BOTH heels or toes then I'd have to say ... Crank 'em. Especially if you're going to be skiing in places where you don't want them coming off.

I do understand the need to stay away from a certain brand though - I won't ski Tyrolia. Not because they're any worse than any other, but because I've just got bad ju-ju with them.
post #6 of 28
Yeah, yeah, it was the bindings, that's the ticket!
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyzee53
why do people complain about the marker bindings??? i am a large ,, heavy ,, and very aggresive skier,and ive skied on marker with no problems for some time,,,, get your bindings adjusted....
ditto (well, maybe not the very aggressive part)

Sometimes it's better to just blame the bindings.

I have marker pistons, marker 1200, Solomon 710's and a few other bindings here, plus all those I've had through the years, and I've never had a "double" release.
post #8 of 28
Its always the equipment man!! I need better boots.
post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyzee53

??isnt marker owned by k2?? i dont see seth morrison having binding issues??
Umm, Morrison uses salomon, race stock.
post #10 of 28
Seth Morrison also blew out his knee one year by having his bindings on a very high din.
post #11 of 28

Twaddle

The single magical answer to this stuff is...there is not one. I ride marker piston 1200's and I've released when I didn't want to and not released when I did want to. I keep my DIN around 8.5 or 9 (which is light for my size and skiing inclination...i.e. big and very fast) but the reason for this is IN GENERAL I want my skis to come off when I need them to AND when I don't want them to rather than NOT come off when I need them to and always stay on through all types of gnarly shit. Double-releasing at the top of a chute is deadly no doubt, but also pretty unlikely. Flipping head over heels and blowing out both knees or wasting your hip flexors with 16 DIN bindings is more likely. That's my take. And by the way ease up on this guy folks...he practically died and also has one of the dopest crashes in the history of the universe so let's not jump all over him for bitching about his bindings...sheesh.
post #12 of 28
I've used Salomon all my life, only major prerelease I can remember is stepping out of a pair of S900E's (non race stock, 5-14din) in a GS course and then sliding a 100 feet down ice. Probably had the DIN too low.
post #13 of 28
Used Salomon's for the majority of my ski life, but the last two season bought new skis and had Look Pivots put on them. These things truly are the greatest bindings, IMO. Never really had much trouble with my Salomon bindings though.
post #14 of 28
Thread Starter 
look everyone, ive competed at many levels up to NorAm in Freestyle moguls, worked in a shop for 15 years and know a few things or two about bindings. At thie time of the wipe out the bindings were set to a 9 DIN, above what Marker indicates it should be in the first place for my height weight and ability. So save your BS about me blaming the bindings for my wipe out. It's a double edged sword as many of you edumacated types may know...the higher you crank em' the more likey you are to do some damage to your knees, legs..etc. My only regret is that i did not bump them up prior to arriving to that type of terrain. I ski them on 9 out east on groomers at mach 5, so when I do wipe, they come off and I dont ruin a season, and frankly I forgot to crank em'. That said, I do have a real problem with markers pre-releasing, and always have. I had heard they fixed the "full spectrum", but honestly had dropped them since loosing multiple events due to the upward toe pre-release in bumps from stressing the tails too much coming in hot to a large trough or two. I would have never put markers on my skis had I not recieved them from a freind at Marker for a reasonable price. And isnt it ironic that everyone who actually saw the wipeout (which, mind you was the original thread title -not proper DIN settings) saw the skis pop off in mid turn with both skis off the snow. And how would you explain both heels locked down?? And everyone at the bird that day who talked to me about the wipe commented on the marker clamps on my skis...and said, not here, no way. I said, i know i know, but thats what i got. I know Im at fault for not cranking them up, but should I have to?


Besides, if any of you that had commented on the binding issue, had actually seen the wipeout..nuff said.
post #15 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nochaser3006
The single magical answer to this stuff is...there is not one. I ride marker piston 1200's and I've released when I didn't want to and not released when I did want to. I keep my DIN around 8.5 or 9 (which is light for my size and skiing inclination...i.e. big and very fast) but the reason for this is IN GENERAL I want my skis to come off when I need them to AND when I don't want them to rather than NOT come off when I need them to and always stay on through all types of gnarly shit. Double-releasing at the top of a chute is deadly no doubt, but also pretty unlikely. Flipping head over heels and blowing out both knees or wasting your hip flexors with 16 DIN bindings is more likely. That's my take. And by the way ease up on this guy folks...he practically died and also has one of the dopest crashes in the history of the universe so let's not jump all over him for bitching about his bindings...sheesh.
Exactly....thanks.
post #16 of 28
Old news but....
My old Marker 46Rs and my Marker MRRs I could stay in at 9 but the Salomon 727E and 737Es had to be cranked to 11 or 12 or else I would step out in between the bumps. Currently my old Salomon Pilot 8s are still letting me step out between bumps or when pulling up out of crud when set at 9.
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by slownlow
And isnt it ironic that everyone who actually saw the wipeout (which, mind you was the original thread title -not proper DIN settings) saw the skis pop off in mid turn with both skis off the snow. And how would you explain both heels locked down??
The reason for the ejection is pretty easy to come up with, the cure is another matter. When you cranked those three turns on the steep on top you seriously decambered the skis effecting tight turns. The tremendous energy built up in the ski during rebound, was sufficient to lift you off the snow, at the same time your skis moved past normal camber to excess camber. This curve makes the top of the ski longer and eliminated binding forward pressure. Your release had nothing to do with DIN settings, it had everything to do with loss of forward pressure. Bindings that seem less affected by this in my experience include particularly the Look pivots. In any event, with the markers, you can ride lower DIN settings and save your knees, but you need to anticipate lower forward pressure when making very strong turns with rebound (i.e. check turns).

In summary, I would be inclined to restore the DIN settings to a level appropriate to your size and ability, then increase forward pressure to the maximum possible that does not compromise proper release, or cause bindng damage.
post #18 of 28
Adding a little to the above diagnostic of the release, this is preventable through a modification of technique that does not rely on extreme rebound to turn the skis in the air. Practicing pedal turns, or a more transitioned turn that keeps the ski edge in contact with the snow will avoid this in the future.
post #19 of 28
Je-e-e-e-ez! How did this turn into a discussion about bindings? Sometimes I think you guys analyze everything to DEATH! The post was about a Wipe-out - not bindings!! Well...DID anyone SEE it?
post #20 of 28
Guess everyone was having a beer at the time
post #21 of 28
Thread Starter 
Yeah, it was all about the wipeout folks. If you missed it too bad, was a nice one....my personal best.

Just figured the wipeout being th talk of the town that weekend and with the tram overhead, i thought some of you folks might have seen it.

Marker bindings still suck.
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by slownlow
Yeah, it was all about the wipeout folks. If you missed it too bad, was a nice one....my personal best.

Just figured the wipeout being th talk of the town that weekend and with the tram overhead, i thought some of you folks might have seen it.

Marker bindings still suck.
Sorry, slownlow, but you're being a bit illogical here.

You keep saying it's all about the wipeout, which certainly does sound like a doozy. But you *still* can't bring yourself to stop blaming the bindings.

So which is it about?

The fall? Or the allegedly inferior bindings (which seem to work perfectly well for several thousand of us on this forum)?

BTW - I've skied North Chute give or take a hundred times, probably 95 of which were on Markers. I certainly wouldn't want to rag-doll down it, but I also wouldn't hesitate one instant to ski it just 'cuz I was on Markers. :

I'm glad you weren't hurt.

Bob
post #23 of 28
There is a reason why Markers always end up the goat in binding discussions. Where there's smoke, there's fire. There's also a reason why Marker bindings lost its preeminence in the 80's, its stock went from over $25/share to delisted, to 10 cents, to broke, to bought out. I've had all my broken bones from Marker pre-releases. Sure, there might be a way to compensate in technique, or to ski differently, but if that's what it takes, why would anyone want to ski with a handicap like that? I got rid of them and I've never felt safer.
BTW, Slownlow, I wasn't there that day, but I heard about it from a patrol buddy when I skied North Chute shortly after. Glad you lived through a slide like that! Wow!
post #24 of 28
It's nice to have you still with us, no matter what boots, bindings, or skis that you use. Now somebody else might not say it that way, but I'm not somebody else.
post #25 of 28
Where is North Chute located as you ride up the tram?
post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
The reason for the ejection is pretty easy to come up with, the cure is another matter. When you cranked those three turns on the steep on top you seriously decambered the skis effecting tight turns. The tremendous energy built up in the ski during rebound, was sufficient to lift you off the snow, at the same time your skis moved past normal camber to excess camber. This curve makes the top of the ski longer and eliminated binding forward pressure. Your release had nothing to do with DIN settings, it had everything to do with loss of forward pressure. Bindings that seem less affected by this in my experience include particularly the Look pivots. In any event, with the markers, you can ride lower DIN settings and save your knees, but you need to anticipate lower forward pressure when making very strong turns with rebound (i.e. check turns).

In summary, I would be inclined to restore the DIN settings to a level appropriate to your size and ability, then increase forward pressure to the maximum possible that does not compromise proper release, or cause bindng damage.

I know this thread is about the slide, but I had shoulder surgery due to a similar release from Salomon 912's I think this is important info. I hit a compression that was covered with powder while skiing at moderate speed-traversing a slope actually. I increased the forward pressure after doing some homework. The above is good information.

Now, who else saw this Epic (pun intended) wipeout? And how is your shoulder? I always seem to land on my right shoulder when I fall (left turn is weaker) and the above fall completed the shredding of my supra-spinitis (sp?) tendon. My surgeon was apologetic that he couldn't do more to fix it. Hope your's is in better shape than mine!! LewBob
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiFox
Je-e-e-e-ez! How did this turn into a discussion about bindings? Sometimes I think you guys analyze everything to DEATH! The post was about a Wipe-out - not bindings!! Well...DID anyone SEE it?
You can say that again, SkiFox! I'm amazed at how studiously we've avoided Slow's original question. My response is easy. On the 25th of Feb (my 39th birthday, as a matter of fact), I was eating middle eastern food in my living room in New Haven, Connecticut, and watching on DVD one of the greatest westerns ever filmed, Howard Hawkes' Rio Bravo. I did not see your wipeout, Slow. Rio Bravo was filmed in 1958-59 in west Texas, I believe, so even if the camera had been nearer to Utah, it was half a century too early.
post #28 of 28
Heh.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Anyone see the epic wipe out down North Chute 2/25/05???